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Ok so my friend has refused to start 40k and Hordes, But i have looked into RPG's for awhile and i wuld love to play with him.
HE as loved RPG's in video games for along time, and he loves fantasy settings.
I was thinking of getting the beginners box with him, so we can play and if we dont like it we are only out 35$
But I need a way of convincing him, any ways you can help me Dakka? Like giving me the basics of the game to convince him, like how it works?

Something I'd recommend getting is the Gamemastery Guide, if you can find one used/cheap (or getting the PFRPG rd app if you've got a smartphone!). It's a fantastic book that isn't totally Pathfinder-specific, so it has plenty of great information on being a GM.

The Beginners box is a great idea. It comes with some high quality cardboard pawns to use for your monsters/heroes, and it simplifies the game enough that you can add on stuff like Combat Maneuvers later on.

One thing to think about would be what your friend likes. Is he the kind of guy who'll sit back and converse with NPC's in his character's voice for hours, or is he looking to leap head-first into the nearest dungeon?

MY guess is that he would love to combat, but he also loves crafting and hanging out in towns and such.

Tell him it will give him the feeling of being a teen at the beginning of the millennium. Maybe longing for a sense of nostalgia will work.

I think i can convince him with offering to pay him back his half if he truly hates it.
I have a question, with just Two people, is it possible to GM and be a PC at the same time?

Are there any groups you can find around you that already play? Perhaps you could join of those for a session or something. I know one of our local stores runs Pathfinder Society modules, which are basically prebuilt adventures. Those are usually free (or cheap) to get in on, and you don't really need much to get started.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I think i can convince him with offering to pay him back his half if he truly hates it.
I have a question, with just Two people, is it possible to GM and be a PC at the same time?

It's possible, but I don't think it's as much fun, and quite tricky for a first time DM. If you can drum up two or three more people, you might find it a more rewarding experience. The advice given to try joining a pre-existing game someone's running is sound advice - give you a feel for what the game's like.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I have a question, with just Two people, is it possible to GM and be a PC at the same time?

Yes, but it puts a lot more responsibility on the GM. "GMPC" is a term for this, and is often not well liked. The biggest issue is that GMPCs can overshadow the real players because they're built to fit the group and have behind-the-scenes knowledge.

An idea for a small group like this would be to consider using the game's Thief class and run urban adventures instead of dungeon crawls. I'm not super familiar with Pathfinder, but this worked well years ago with D&D 2nd: Have the player's character be a sneaky-type of some sort in a big city. Morals can be adjusted as desired: a Hero might be working in an evil city as a vigilante or freedom fighter type, while an anti-hero might be in it for the loot or some other goal.

Don't do 'dungeons' as they're long, require diverse skills, and a character that falls is pretty much dead. On the other hand, if the 'mission' is breaking into a wealthy noble's estate, it's a shorter adventure, the skills required are likely to be a bit more manageable, and if the character is defeated he may just get captured or arrested. It's a fantasy city, so there could be all sorts of weirdness from Horrible Things in the sewers (Ratmen, undead, oozes, etc.), political intrigue, wizards releasing weird stuff, etc. Tons of room for interesting stuff in a framework that is very open and easy.

Or for another option, it might be better to have the player control a 2nd character than run a GMPC.

It's better to have some NPC's that will work with his character than a full-on GMPC.

Who would control the NPC's?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Who would control the NPC's?

Typically, the DM. The general idea being that they're supporting characters, but your friend is the guy that matters. The other characters all have their own thing going on, and may or may not care to assist (or hamper) your friend, but they're transitory and fleeting. Contrast this with the GMPC who is usually as powerful (or more) than the PC, and goes around with him everywhere he goes, doing what he does, but inevitably ends up stealing the spotlight because he knows everything that the god of the world (you) knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, say there's something in the woods that's been attacking people. Your friend is party member one. He wants the bounty on the head of whatever it is out there.

In this case:

The NPCs would be the town doctor (with dying survivor of attack), librarian, and local woodsman who tell your friend that there was a terrible wolf monster, that it might be a lycanthrope (and how to deal with one), and offer to lead him to where the last attack was, respectively (and provided he can pay them enough). These other guys can be interesting characters, and be really in depth, but they're not heroes. Even the woodman is probably going to bolt at the first sign of trouble. This gaks scary.

The GMPC here would be party member two who just happened to have heard it was a werewolf and happened to bring a silver longsword to take care of the job. He's a hero too after all, so why not?


This might be exaggerating the difference between the two, but I think it serves the point well.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Who would control the NPC's?

You, early on. He'd "control" one or two after a while. Eventually all of them, if you're both comfortable with it. "Control" meaning he can say "this guy does this" but you could over-rule it if it's clearly/blatantly against that's NPC's ethos or whatever.

Kinda like party member in a VG rpg? Helpful, but not optimized?

Something like that. They'd still need to be useful/decent NPC's, but not tricked-out.

It's an option, if you can't find other players.

Someone I work with and I are playing Pathfinder-by-email. Obviously we are not following the rules 100% and play more of a narrative game (since we can't just sit flicking through the rulebooks at work ), but I am the GM and make the final call on our joint RP's to further the overall story. However, since we are both "playing", we can both RP the majority of events that take place without too much difficulty.

As it is we play 2 characters each, and I generally introduce NPC's and so on to carry on the story then we jointly decide how things play out.

Other than that I don't try to hog the story... you need to involve the other player in the decisions and allow them to shape the world.

Well We will try the NPC thing if I cant find more players, \
Many of my friends are nerds, and if i tell them its free to start(I have the begginer box, and i will mostlikely buy the modules and such) they may be willing to give it a try.

While unsuitable for mid-game reference, you might check out the Pathfinder SRD as well. It's the majority of the classes and info, but in online html format and free. I typically use it when planning sessions. Rather than keeping a bestiary, a core rulebook, and two Ravenloft books juggled open in front of me on my tiny desk, I can keep the two books open and refer to the website for the rest.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Well We will try the NPC thing if I cant find more players, \
Many of my friends are nerds, and if i tell them its free to start(I have the begginer box, and i will mostlikely buy the modules and such) they may be willing to give it a try.

You don't need more players. Simply run a very very basic game for him letting him be whatever class he want's to be. Just let him go off on adventures. Draw a simple map, and let him romp around. Give him something like 3 basic healing potions to start with, and create the encounters as you go.

He starts in town and looks for work, sure, lets say a farmer has a pest problem, something keeps stealing his ckicken eggs. Your player eventually finds X monster or a few Y monsters that he can handle and puts a stop to it.

Rinse, repeat. Then later on link the "quests" together. X monster was looking for food near the town because Z monsters were growing stronger, because B monsters were causing trouble, because of whatever great evil outsourcing their evil deeds, again...

That sounds like a good idea, and then later on he can do the same with me.

I still like the 'urban' campaign idea. A good video game reference for this would be the first Neverwinter Nights, that was almost all based in a city as I remember.

Update, I was succesfully able to convince him. he took some warming up too, but once he found out you can get the rullebooks cheap(on PDF's) he warmed up to it.

Incase anyone was still wondering, i got the begginer box, he played We Be Goblins tuesday, and he loved it. Said he is willing to buy some more stuff.

Paizo's online PRD is an excellent resource as you slowly add books to your collection.

Best of luck.


Edit: Linky to PRD