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Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

And I forgot, if the point is selling new stuff why the HS slot is full to the brim with 8 units and there are only 4 in the Elite slot plus one that currently pointless (and one of those can be taken as troops) is there another army with such a melee in the HS slot?

M.

So with all this hate being said, can someone tell me anything they like with the new codex?

IMHO, I find the codex reinforces as far as I understand the basic concept of eldar, they can dish out the pain but cannot take it.

Powerguy wrote:


How did Hawks get a buff? Sure they are cheaper, but they are otherwise almost identical from what I can see. They don't scatter, but they have terrible damage output and a 4+ save - they are outclassed completely by Spiders.

They're cheap as chips for a unit that can just plonk down onto an objective on turn 5!

When they come down, their grenade pack is now AP4, ignores cover (tau pathfinders anyone?). Their weapons are now assault 3, and they get that battle trance to spread out after striking in. My main use for them is to DS in, get rid of pathfinders, or anything that's manning the quad gun. Now my crimson hunters can come in without being intercepted.

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I knew I was doing something wrong

Tho in the last game I played my Pathfinders were charged by two surviving DE trueborn, one died to overwatch and the other was clobbered by the might of our HtH.

M.

I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

Crazyterran wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I think you are mixing up Rangers and Pathfinders. Rangers are 12pts for a BS4 Sniper Rifle (which has Precision). Pathfinders are unlocked by the Ranger HQ character, 12(ish) pt upgrade to Rangers and ALL their shots are Precision (same as the Ranger character).

@Belly. I guess you can get some milage out of them but you can't yo-yo them anymore. You aren't going to reliably kill off anything manning a Quad Gun anyway (cause they can see it coming and put something slightly more durable on it anyway), you are always better off just blasting the Quad Gun turn 1.

Powerguy wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I think you are mixing up Rangers and Pathfinders. Rangers are 12pts for a BS4 Sniper Rifle (which has Precision). Pathfinders are unlocked by the Ranger HQ character, 12(ish) pt upgrade to Rangers and ALL their shots are Precision (same as the Ranger character).

But what's the point of the rule? it's akin to giving a lascannon to SM assault squads just in case they want to camp an objective. That's not the purpose of the squad.

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

And I forgot, if the point is selling new stuff why the HS slot is full to the brim with 8 units and there are only 4 in the Elite slot plus one that currently pointless (and one of those can be taken as troops) is there another army with such a melee in the HS slot?

M.

Oh I agree completely. Giving Farseer's a spell that hits at S3 but has Fleshbane? Kind of redundant, like a lot of things. However, I don't want to be overly negative. I like some of the changes and the stuff I don't like, I won't run. Flyers are glass cannons. They look mean on paper but they're so damn fragile. as for 8 HS options, again, I agree. Break that crap up. I am thinking people are disappointed because a lot of the rumored rules aren't in here(i.e. Autarchs making aspects scoring units). I guess that's the problem with rumors and the choke hold GW has on releasing any info about upcoming releases.

I see reapers being a good answer for quad gun removal.

Eldar, even with all the new and shiny, still live and die by their psychic powers to nerf or take that away from an army still so dependent on them is devastating.

I think the way the Eldar codex is now...I think that they are built with needing less reliance on psychic powers. The increase to BS 4 for all vehicles and guardians bears that out. Additionally, the buff to scatter lasers means less guide is needed.

 Khaine wrote:
I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

Or Necrons...

Heldrake spam are going to eat this army alive. Which saddens me. I finally had to break down and buy one for my CSM. I tried to resist, but damn...

@Nocturnus We are in agreement there.

I'm not disappointed at the changes or saying that Eldar have been nerfed, the stuff that angers me is that the codex seems at places like a rush job where little afterthought was given at rules and playtesting was scant.

M.

Powerguy wrote:

@Belly. I guess you can get some milage out of them but you can't yo-yo them anymore. You aren't going to reliably kill off anything manning a Quad Gun anyway (cause they can see it coming and put something slightly more durable on it anyway), you are always better off just blasting the Quad Gun turn 1.

I'm almost specifically thinking of a IG army. For them, Ap4 Ignores cover is almost certain death.

I will field spiders eventually. But from the outset, I much prefer hawks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nocturnus wrote:

Heldrake spam are going to eat this army alive. Which saddens me. I finally had to break down and buy one for my CSM. I tried to resist, but damn...

I found helldrakes to not be too scary in the old codex. This one makes them mincemeat if you field crimson hunters.

They can't be vector struck if you're playing right, which is sticking to board edges and vector dancing. And they have 4 Str 8 shots, which can almost always be directed at rear armour. They're sitting-turkeys, if you will. CSM are the one army I don't fear with this new codex. Tau on the otherhand...

 Miguelsan wrote:
As more and more information continues to be posted I have come to the conclusion that whoever wrote the Codex has not bothered to read the main rulebook or doesn't care.

Tho I might discover that I'm wrong once I get the book I'm really distressed not because units are being changed or nerfed but rather because they are receiving rules and equipment that are moot for their intended role.

Wraithknights with 4 weapons when they can only fire 2 per MC rules and +1 to S on a MC that it's already S 10. Precision shot on a unit that already has precision shot due to the weapon they use. Twinlink weapons on BS 5 exarchs...

I'm disliking this codex so far, again not because it nerfs or changes things but because apparently the changes were made just for the shake of changing stuff or as people say cinematics.

M.

Looking at the codex, I think the problem with the Wraithknight stems from the fact that the model they first put out there had 4 weapons on it. That was dumb because it's not effective rules-wise. Here are some legal builds that make sense:

Glaive and shield, 2 shoulder weapons. Assault stuff, still have some firepower.
One arm cannon, shield, one shoulder weapon. The shoulder weapon is probably a scatter laser so that you can twin-link the main gun using the Laser Lock rule. You still have a shield for extra defense.
Two main guns, no shoulder guns. Maximum firepower, move and shoot at full effect. The shoulder guns are very expensive, it's pretty clear to me that there wasn't an intent that you take two main guns and two shoulder guns. GW just did a bad job communicating, as usual.

What do people think of 1 Suncannon, 1 Lance thingy, one scatter laser for the wraithknight? You always use the SL then have the option to fire one of the other big guns as twin linked. It gives the WK a dual purpose, which, for its points cost it better be.

How do I delete a post?

 D6Damager wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's a Phil Kelly book.

This. I really don't understand the Phil Kelly love. His codexes always lead to Spam armies since there is always horrible internal balance.

Space Wolves = Missile launcher Spam

Dark Eldar = Venom Spam

Chaos Space Marines = Heldrake Spam plus pick either plaguemarines or noisemarine Spam.

Chaos Daemons = Flying Monstrous Creature Spam aka "Flying Circus".

For Eldar I'm predicting jetbike and wraith____s Spam.

In defense of Mr. Kelly, Daemon Flying Circus builds were actually better in the older codex. I won more games by larger margins with more FMCs before the new book came out.

It was 6th Ed that brought FMC spam, not Phil Kelly's Daemon Codex.

Couple of things...

First of all, I've never seen a Heldrake in a game, let alone three in my meta. We just have Dakkajets and Marine Flyers to contend with, so it isn't too bad.

As I shall walk through the valley in the shadow of possible Heldrake spam, I shall fear no evil... cuz I'm the meanest mofo in the 41st millennium and I carry a sharp pointy stick.

Second...

Been speculating on Reapers with the Eldar equivalent of Krak missiles. These guys are very cheap for what they do and when facing flyers, ten of these guys are a scary prospect. You'll roll some sixes, two - three if you have an Exarch with fast shot.

I'm thinking a good build is:

9 Reapers + Exarch.
Reapers have Krak Missiles.
Exarch has Tempest Launcher.

Nine Krak shots from a single unit is pretty scary. The Starswarms are great vs MEQ and can be demi hoard removal. The Kraks also do double time as potential anti air.

The Tempest Launcher is for pure Horde removal, especially with Fast shot. Model looks bad ass too.

It is expensive, but it gets so many jobs done.

If you can have a Seer with Divination, that is a unit that has a lot of potential.

Belly wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nocturnus wrote:

Heldrake spam are going to eat this army alive. Which saddens me. I finally had to break down and buy one for my CSM. I tried to resist, but damn...

I found helldrakes to not be too scary in the old codex. This one makes them mincemeat if you field crimson hunters.

They can't be vector struck if you're playing right, which is sticking to board edges and vector dancing. And they have 4 Str 8 shots, which can almost always be directed at rear armour. They're sitting-turkeys, if you will. CSM are the one army I don't fear with this new codex. Tau on the otherhand...

I think a lot of flyers are in the one and done category, Your flyers dont have the AV to hold up against a lot of just mid strength multi shot weapons. Autocannons, missile pods, dakka guns, assault cannons, etc. You can hope for going second to get a shot at the other guys flyer first, but after that I think a lot of armies are just praying for 6s. And for the most part it seems to work on the lower AV fliers.

It seems the direction that the flyers released in 6th are going, and thats not such a bad thing.

MRPYM wrote:So with all this hate being said, can someone tell me anything they like with the new codex?

Striking Scorpions are beastly, I think.

Khaine wrote:I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

What I've seen:
1) Banshees - crap
2) Warlocks - random power AFTER assigning units is crap. Casting at Ld8 vs Always On - why'd they get more expensive?
3) Wraithknight - 4 weapons 2 shots - WTF?
4) Flyers - wee, AV10 all around

What I haven't seen:
1) The entire codex is trash! Burn it to the ground!

Okay, I saw one or two of those. They're idiots. I'm undecided on overall codex balance currently. There's just some things that are off, and we already know before the codex is in hand that internal balance is pretty bad in spots. Jetbike Guardians were one of the best improvements - they were already our best troops! Striking Scorpions laugh at Howling Banshees. Harlequins brought back a rule (distance check roll) that they just removed completely for 6th. A year in and they've switched their minds again?

It's hard to judge overall codex effectiveness this early. It is, however, easy to spot dumb stuff that just shouldn't have happened. Guess what? The book contains dumb stuff that just shouldn't have happened.

A question for anyone in possession of the codex! does the farseer have to take half rounded powers from codex? and also not sure if you can post it here please message me otherwise the points cost on a bike for farseers and warlocks?

The thing about Harlies, is that with their large amount of attacks and Harley Kiss, they can murder Termies in cc.

Much better than Banshees at taking out MEQ too and they can get into cc, unlike the Banshees.

Scorpions are great though.

My top elite picks are Dragons, Scorpions and Harlies.

WG and WB should only be taken as troops.

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
A question for anyone in possession of the codex! does the farseer have to take half rounded powers from codex? and also not sure if you can post it here please message me otherwise the points cost on a bike for farseers and warlocks?

No restriction on Farseers. Bikes are 15.

Quark wrote:

MRPYM wrote:So with all this hate being said, can someone tell me anything they like with the new codex?

Striking Scorpions are beastly, I think.

Khaine wrote:I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

What I've seen:
1) Banshees - crap
2) Warlocks - random power AFTER assigning units is crap. Casting at Ld8 vs Always On - why'd they get more expensive?
3) Wraithknight - 4 weapons 2 shots - WTF?
4) Flyers - wee, AV10 all around

What I haven't seen:
1) The entire codex is trash! Burn it to the ground!

Okay, I saw one or two of those. They're idiots. I'm undecided on overall codex balance currently. There's just some things that are off, and we already know before the codex is in hand that internal balance is pretty bad in spots. Jetbike Guardians were one of the best improvements - they were already our best troops! Striking Scorpions laugh at Howling Banshees. Harlequins brought back a rule (distance check roll) that they just removed completely for 6th. A year in and they've switched their minds again?

It's hard to judge overall codex effectiveness this early. It is, however, easy to spot dumb stuff that just shouldn't have happened. Guess what? The book contains dumb stuff that just shouldn't have happened.

^ I love posts that count their chickens before they hatch.

@quark Have yo playtested anything yet? if your answer is a no then sit down and shut up. This is all paper talk where nothing matters. Lets send them out into the field and see what happens when we apply TACTICS.....I know, I know tactics are hardly used in 40k, but cmon on..I think we can all use a little tactics now and then....

Nocturnus wrote:

 Khaine wrote:
I've seen so many drama queens - I can't believe people are saying the codex is a nerf, buffs are everywhere .
I saw the same thing with CSM and Daemons; just because the army isn't obviously unbalanced like GK doesn't mean they are crap

Or Necrons...

Heldrake spam are going to eat this army alive. Which saddens me. I finally had to break down and buy one for my CSM. I tried to resist, but damn...

You will do ok against Drakes if you build your list right since you will get the alpha strike against them with your fliers. A single Crimson Hunter has a reasonable shot of dropping a Drake and with Vector Dancer and a squad placed just in front of your flier you can avoid the Vector Strikes for 1-2 turns. You just need to get the +1 armour save power on your Jetbikes and you guaranteed to have Troops alive and if not you spead out hard and maneuver under the Drakes as best you can. I would far rather face Drakes than Necron fliers tbh.

Miguelsan wrote:

Powerguy wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

LOL, GW never had or cared about "balance". They care about selling minis. As long as the investors are seeing profits, that's all that matters. To GW, that is. As for getting beat out by PP, I would laugh but I don't think that will happen. At least the 40K players I know think WarmaHordes is a stupid game with crappy models. But, to each their own.

But is it too much to ask that at least they follow the current set of rules without coming up with useless stuff? If sniper rifles have a rule that confers precision shot to its user, why rangers (apparently might be wrong) have a special rule that gives precision shot?

M.

Do they come with Pistols?

Maybe it's there in case you want to charge with your Rangers!

I think you are mixing up Rangers and Pathfinders. Rangers are 12pts for a BS4 Sniper Rifle (which has Precision). Pathfinders are unlocked by the Ranger HQ character, 12(ish) pt upgrade to Rangers and ALL their shots are Precision (same as the Ranger character).

But what's the point of the rule? it's akin to giving a lascannon to SM assault squads just in case they want to camp an objective. That's not the purpose of the squad.

M.

Sniper rifles normally get Precision hits (letting you allocate the wound not your opponent) on 6's to hit right? Pathfinders and the Ranger character are basically the same as the Vindicare (without the no LOS rule) so they ALWAYS allocate the wound. It makes Pathfinders pretty funny on Quad Guns.

@Puscifer. Yeah Reapers are nasty, although I wouldn't give the Exarch anything other than Krak Missiles and Night Vision. That unit is going to be 400 odd points though. Maybe take a Spiritseer as well for Shrouding or a chance at a 2+ save?

Eldrad is kind of scary in cc, he can kill pretty much any monstrous creature outside the dreadknight thanks to fleshbane/force weapon.

I'm most interested in what sort of punch I can put into using Eldar as Allies for my DE. I used to rely on them for psyhic defense and for the bliss of using doom on a unit and then running over them with Reaver Bladeveins.

skarsol wrote:

 Overlord Zerrtin wrote:
A question for anyone in possession of the codex! does the farseer have to take half rounded powers from codex? and also not sure if you can post it here please message me otherwise the points cost on a bike for farseers and warlocks?

No restriction on Farseers. Bikes are 15.

Thanks! my dreams live on triple telepathy farseer on jetbike = love.

Edit 1: Double post wtf
Edit 2: I have a physical copy of the codex that arrived an hour ago if anyone has any specific questions

Looks like !@#$ just got real...