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I knew I rembered it from somewhere.
It is some old, official but awesome art from the codex, just "blueified" and therefore without meaning.

Random link with the img:
https://www.tabletopwelt.de/uploads/monthly_2016_05/574c876bde375_SkitariiLeader_zpshsepqkrh.jpgoriginal.jpeg.446aad68087a24ce7a7b2539a2cdb60b.jpeg

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/03/3rd-dec-chapter-approved-matched-playgw-homepage-post-1/

Magaera got cheaper. Not sure how much, but it has to be much cheaper than a Styrix to be tempting; I might still take the Styrix anyway.

If the Maeg's gun at least kept Shred it would be interesting. As is, it fails to fill any role. Shame because it's my favorite aesthetically speaking.

That said, if rumors are correct about the current -1 to Hit trait just becoming Cover, it might be slightly more interesting. Still wouldn't take it probably though.

45" Heavy 5 S8 AP-3 DD6, get extra attack on 6+ wound roll is way more relevant than 48" Heavy 6 S7 AP-1 DD3, get AP-3 and D3 on 6+ wound roll. Especially when you combine it with the Krast bonuses against Titans.

 Suzuteo wrote:
45" Heavy 5 S8 AP-3 DD6, get extra attack on 6+ wound roll is way more relevant than 48" Heavy 6 S7 AP-1 DD3, get AP-3 and D3 on 6+ wound roll. Especially when you combine it with the Krast bonuses against Titans.

hey, how did you know what I was running I myself am partial to an archeon with the flamestorm cannon, ion bulwark and the headsman mark to get a ridiculous damage 4 flamethrower against tanks and damage 5 against titans, even at only strength 7.

So with Guardsmen going to 5 points and -1 to hit possibly being traded in for cover saves, Stygies or Graia Rangers (11 PPW) are looking pretty good compared to Guardsmen (15/7.5 PPW in RF range, without and with FRFSRF) in shooting and Mars Vanguard (22 PPW) to Catachans (23 unbuffed by Straken/Mini-Priest) in fighting now.

If Enginseers go down a bit in price, I am thinking of Mars Battalion (Cawlstar) + Stygies Battalion (Goondozer?) + Solo Knight Styrix.

With Goondozer you mean Dragoons?

Let's see how cheap Kataphrons get, maybe we can incorporate them together with Cawl and Bots..
I still think that a double Batallion would be pretty HQ tax heavy.

Stygies looks even worse if that happens i mean if your going second you have cover for 3 turns anyway an advantage on t4+ is never as good

If Stygies loses their negative to hit trait, I'm just going to say feth it and work on a custom Forge World that can be whatever I want.

This nonsense is ridiculous.

You can use which ever forgeworld you like. I for example have my AdMech painted as Mars and I played then as Stygies in a tournament. As long as its clear to your opponent there are no probs.

U02dah4 wrote:
Stygies looks even worse if that happens i mean if your going second you have cover for 3 turns anyway an advantage on t4+ is never as good

The difference is that you effectively get shroudpsalm for every single turn of the game, get to pick all the other canticles instead and save yourself the two command points for the Turn1+2 shroudpsalm, or the 4 CP if you go second and want it for 3 turns (which also comes with the drawback that the go second strategem only works within your own deployment zone, which is bad news for any units that want to advance, even if it's only infantry moving to objectives, or Crawlers that might have to leave it to get LoS), as well as not having to rely on luck to roll for shroudpsalm on the canticle table (which can backfire even if you play Mars with Cawl and end up rolling a 1, 2 or 6) and ending up with the Litany of the Electromancer that is completely useless 99% of the time or having to burn extra CP for rerolling that roll.

If you run pure Admech then saving CPs is always good because our non-Cawl HQ choices are so inefficient (you never want more than a single Enginseer and a second Dominus is more of a fun choice) and as a result you generally don't want more than a single battalion and maybe a spearhead detachment if you are not running Knights (give us Skitarii Alphas GW for the Omnissiah's sake, we even kind of had them in the 7.Ed Skitarii Codex too!). Guaranteed Shroudpsalm means you can get either a global re-roll 1s to hit buff (which means you are not forced to castle up around a Dominus or even Cawl in the case of BS 3+ units), S4 (situational but good on Dragoons, priests, infiltrators and Vanguards) or re-rolling morale test (which can keep the one or other special weapon alive in MSU units).

That's IMO a much better defensive buff than Graia, ESPECIALLY for Kastelans, Kataphrons and Crawlers (6+ FnP is extremely weak on multi-wound models if you only get to use it on the last wound), as the Graia trait only really works like FnP on 1 wound models. And Dakkabots and Crawlers is where most of our firepower comes from, so they are the things you want to keep alive. Skitarii infantry is there to protect them, until we get better ways to buff Ld or a Tau Cadre Fireblade style Skitarii Alpha HQ that buffs them, massive hordes of them can work but are worse than what say Tau can do, and those Skitarii benefit more from a 3+ armor save anyway (big time). And the Graia warlord trait... only really helps when a whole lot of your infantry ends up in close combat EXACTLY 6" away from your warlord, and staying in melee and shooting is usually worse than simply falling back and getting a chance to shoot the attackers with your big guns. Graia's psy-deny strategem is good though if you end up playing against psykers, especially if you are willing to burn a CP to re-roll.

The main issue that we pay for the best defensive FW trait and saving 2-4 CP by having a borderline useless Strategem with the units we have right now and an essentially completely useless warlord trait.

Lucius offers nerfing Ap-1 guns down to Ap-0 (which can be strong, weak or completely useless depending against which army and list you play against) AND offers the best alternative to clandestine infiltration with an affordable deepstrike strat that offer considerable flexibility and cool ways to use e.g. a big unit of Vanguard (let 10 of them with two Calivers pop up right next to some squishy backline units or cap far out objectives) and gives back most of the deployment flexibility units like Dragoons and priests lost with the last FAQ, even if the warlord trait is pretty useless if the best thing you can put it on is a Dominus (and Monitor Malovent is too good to pass up anyway). Now if we had melee centric Secutor Techpriests as a HQ choice...

Agripinaa has the VERY strong +5 overwatch that T'au has, even if it doesn't have the same flexibility that it offers when combined with Greater Good! and Fireblades. Though the warlord trait is again wasted on Enginseers or Dominii (hope that's the correct plural form, my latin is a bit rusty) and the Strategem is useless if you don't run Kataphrons (that said, if Destroyers or even Breachers get the considerable point-cut they need then having a unit of them respawn for 2 CP would be nice, especially if it's Destroyers and your Kastelans are less than 12" away from your deployment edge [so you get to activate Elimination Protocol in the same turn]).

Metalica has an amazing warlord trait that really benefits hordes of Skitarii infantry (especially when playing Vanguard and combining it with the FW trait) when facing close-combat threats, but is limited to a 6" bubble, useless against purely ranged armies and in any case you end up playing a worse version of T'au sept Firewarrior spam (something I play with good success at tournaments). And the strategem is very weak

O.f course Mars will reign supreme again, but it's the boring pick IMO, especially with Cawl, and you just end up with another shooty castle (even if Infiltrators can become really nasty with the strategem as a backup if your dakkabots end up dead or tied down... and ten infiltrators also dish out way more mortal wounds than the two castellans you get for the same points) that literally everyone will expect the moment you arrive at a table and say that you are playing Admech.

 lash92 wrote:
With Goondozer you mean Dragoons?

Let's see how cheap Kataphrons get, maybe we can incorporate them together with Cawl and Bots..
I still think that a double Batallion would be pretty HQ tax heavy.

Right. I was thinking of something like this, actually:

Plenty of stuff to cut. But I really hope they bring Enginseers down to 35 points like most Guard elites.

But yeah, this might be a common skeleton. Cawlstar in Mars, some assault option in a second FW, and a Knight. Necromechanic to heal 4 wound per turn with the Tech-Adept stratagem.

U02dah4 wrote:
Stygies looks even worse if that happens i mean if your going second you have cover for 3 turns anyway an advantage on t4+ is never as good

Depends on how it is phrased. If it's "count as in cover OR +1 to cover saves," then Stygies is worthwhile because 2+ saves are brutal. But Graia and Lucius would be the alternatives. I favor the former because it makes the infantry tougher to remove and also lets me spend 1 CP to Deny.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If Stygies loses their negative to hit trait, I'm just going to say feth it and work on a custom Forge World that can be whatever I want.

This nonsense is ridiculous.

My Skitarii are sky blue. Haha.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/05/5th-dec-xenos-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

Oh boy. It looks like specialist detachments are keywords granted via stratagem. Which means Cawlstars may become even more deadly. (Unless it's Forgeworld-specific, which would suck.)

Cohort Cybernetica will make the robots more deadly but I bet chapter approved will make them more expensive.

We'll find out Saturday morning or late Friday night.

If they make anything in AdMech more expensive, that will be like kicking people while they are down...

It amuses me that your breakdown above Ragnar lists the Stygies dtrat as useless but the Lucius strat as useful for Dragoons - I find the Stygies strat allows Dragoons to frequently make first turn charges, while Lucius’s strat gives fhem a sub-50% chance (even when paying extra for a command reroll) of getting a charge on turn 2. The only advantage to Lucius’s strat in this case is protecting them turn 1, but Dragoons already have a -1 to be hit so aren’t totally helpless there.

Agreed Agripinaa might become interesting if its kataphron gimmick is affordable.

Graia’s RTY trait may only activate on 1 wound models or models about to die, but when it does it’s miles better than a FNP - you only roll once, instead pf having to succeed a roll for every suffered wound. I’ve had Kastelans survive 6 damage hits from it before, when they started at 3 wounds, much less likely to happen with a FNP. But yes, it synergises best with Electropriests who become disgustingly hard to remove. Especially Corpuscarii if you put a Dominus with the Graia WT in among them, so they can overwatch-fight-shoot-fight if charged, as well as shoot-charge when on the offensive. Now if only the Doctrina Imperatives worked on them!

Stygies's strategem is more useful than Lucius's for sure. But both are probably not worth the 1 CP. Dragoons are probably better as a counter-charger and vehicle interceptor now.

The wait for CA is unbearable. I'll have my first tournament (ETC) in February and I'm already stressing about what kind of list I should write. There's a few restrictions to prevent spam but I'm sure as hell it will be useless. I mean limiting to 3 Troops doesn't prevent 90 Plaguebearers with -2 to be Hit. Meanwhile I won't be able to bring more than 2 Onagers.

 Suzuteo wrote:
So with Guardsmen going to 5 points and -1 to hit possibly being traded in for cover saves, Stygies or Graia Rangers (11 PPW) are looking pretty good compared to Guardsmen (15/7.5 PPW in RF range, without and with FRFSRF) in shooting and Mars Vanguard (22 PPW) to Catachans (23 unbuffed by Straken/Mini-Priest) in fighting now.

If Enginseers go down a bit in price, I am thinking of Mars Battalion (Cawlstar) + Stygies Battalion (Goondozer?) + Solo Knight Styrix.

I would love to see more of this and wish you every success if it comes to your table adventures!

 Aaranis wrote:
The wait for CA is unbearable. I'll have my first tournament (ETC) in February and I'm already stressing about what kind of list I should write. There's a few restrictions to prevent spam but I'm sure as hell it will be useless. I mean limiting to 3 Troops doesn't prevent 90 Plaguebearers with -2 to be Hit. Meanwhile I won't be able to bring more than 2 Onagers.

It really is, it´s demotivating me from playing, painting and buying....
As someone who had his first tournament this year I can feel your hassle. But trust me you will learn so much and if you post the restrictions we can work something out in the thread.

Thanks for the support ! Well I could but thinking about a list is impossible as so much could change (or not) with CA that it would be an exercise in futility.

However the limitations and rules are as follow:

- 1850 pts, ETC lists, Maelstrom + Eternal War missions, +10 pts if tabling
- WYSIWIG, full painted
- 2 Codices max, no Index
- 3 Detachments max
- Up to 250 pts of a single FW unit
- No Fortifications
- 1 Named character per player
- 1 LoW max (except for Codex: Imperial Knight)
- No more than 3 times the same Troop datasheet
- No more than two transports under 100 pts, authorization to double once in the following unit types: HQ, Elite, Support, Fast Attack, Flyers
- I don't know yet if the Beta Rules will be enforced

So HQ-wise I'm stuck with either Cawl + generic or Dominus + Enginseer unless I use my double, but I don't see why I would for HQs. If the Beta rules are enforced Stygies VIII might not be that interesting as my 3x Dragoons wouldn't properly alpha strike, and I'd lose Cawl + Bots. It will depend if Stygies' trait is changed to cover saves as the rumour states.

There will be almost every army out there so I don't really know what to expect. With such limitations Drukhari will be limited to 3 transports but I'm fairly certain there's a Grotesque spam coming. Probably no Berzerker rush neither. Expecting Knights but don't know how CA will affect them.

My current collection is as follows, minus the Alphas with CC gear as they won't see play in a WYSIWYG event:


I'm planning on possibly buying the new Battleforce this Christmas if budget allows, for one more Onager, 2 more Bots, 5 more Infiltrators, 10 more Skitarii and another Enginseer. If not I'll just buy another box of Kastelans.

I'll play the same FW for my whole AdMech for sake of ease on the table and HQ slots. My options are Cawl's Castle with 4 Bots, usual, for WoM, Stygies VIII for distraction Dragoon, or others, but I don't know which.

- Agripinaa could help me set up a gunline with the 5+ Overwatch but I don't know if that's enough. The strat would be only used on my 3 Destroyers and I'm not sure they'd survive a full round first.
- Lucius would just help me DS stuff, but what ? Infiltrators already DS, Vanguards are better off screening my artillery, and Dragoons are better off starting on the table.
- Graia ? I feel like I don't have enough infantry to make it work, and the stratagem never works. Remind me, when a multi-wound model is saved thanks to that it stays alive with one wound left right ?
- Metalica and Ryza are out of the question.

Really need CA in my life.

The only time you ever run Enginseers that I can think of is when you have a Knight or Crawlers that are going to leave Cawl's bubble, and you want to keep an Enginseer nearby for healing.

The problem with agrapinaa's strat, even if destroyers are reduced in points so they're worth using, is that they'd need to go down in power level as well as at the moment you can only bring back a unit of 3 destroyers as 6 is over the 20pl limit.

Suzuteo wrote:The only time you ever run Enginseers that I can think of is when you have a Knight or Crawlers that are going to leave Cawl's bubble, and you want to keep an Enginseer nearby for healing.

Or just fill HQ slots cheaply. Though I did once have an Enginseer sprint after my Dragoons to fix them

Octovol wrote:The problem with agrapinaa's strat, even if destroyers are reduced in points so they're worth using, is that they'd need to go down in power level as well as at the moment you can only bring back a unit of 3 destroyers as 6 is over the 20pl limit.

Well we can have a unit of 5 Destroyers, it costs the same. I think 6 models in a unit starts being too threatening, but I do have a phobia of big costly units.

So if the rumors about -1 to hit becoming +1 to cover are true what are all the ways mechanicus can abuse the canticles so that they always have cover. Obviously his is with stygies

gendoikari87 wrote:
So if the rumors about -1 to hit becoming +1 to cover are true what are all the ways mechanicus can abuse the canticles so that they always have cover. Obviously his is with stygies

Depends if it's "Counts as being in cover when at 12" or more" or "+1 to save when in cover at 12" or more". For the former, this allows Stygies to use another Canticle than Shroudpsalm at first round, like Remorseless Fist so that your infiltrated CC units can reroll for their first fight, or the reroll Morale one if playing with max Skitarii units.

If it's +1 to the save when in cover, when using Shroudpsalm we're looking at 2+ Skitarii and Destroyers, and 1+ Robots, Breachers and Onagers first round, which is huge in my opinion.

Although I have no idea where this rumour comes from and I'd be surprised if this rule change came from CA. It's a change more akin to a FAQ.

 Aaranis wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
So if the rumors about -1 to hit becoming +1 to cover are true what are all the ways mechanicus can abuse the canticles so that they always have cover. Obviously his is with stygies

Depends if it's "Counts as being in cover when at 12" or more" or "+1 to save when in cover at 12" or more". For the former, this allows Stygies to use another Canticle than Shroudpsalm at first round, like Remorseless Fist so that your infiltrated CC units can reroll for their first fight, or the reroll Morale one if playing with max Skitarii units.

If it's +1 to the save when in cover, when using Shroudpsalm we're looking at 2+ Skitarii and Destroyers, and 1+ Robots, Breachers and Onagers first round, which is huge in my opinion.

Although I have no idea where this rumour comes from and I'd be surprised if this rule change came from CA. It's a change more akin to a FAQ.

totally agree, 2+ skitarii seem like they might kick guard off the go to spot for imperial troops

Cohort Cybernetica preview ! We don't have all the infos but what's here is already interesting:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-imperial-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/



A stratagem that allows Robots to add 3" to their charge move ? I guess Lucius just made a comeback. DS Fistelans and charge 6". Hoping for a reasonable point decrease on the fists now.

Also describing a stratagem that turns their Heavy weapons to Assault but I fail to see the use, except once more for Fistelans with flamers that want to sprint towards the enemy and still burn them.

Aah, my thirst for leaks is sated a bit.

EDIT: just noticed that Cawl can't benefit from the detachment as he lacks the keywords. Fail ?

 Aaranis wrote:
Cohort Cybernetica preview ! We don't have all the infos but what's here is already interesting:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-imperial-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

Spoiler:

A stratagem that allows Robots to add 3" to their charge move ? I guess Lucius just made a comeback. DS Fistelans and charge 6". Hoping for a reasonable point decrease on the fists now.

Also describing a stratagem that turns their Heavy weapons to Assault but I fail to see the use, except once more for Fistelans with flamers that want to sprint towards the enemy and still burn them.

Aah, my thirst for leaks is sated a bit.

EDIT: just noticed that Cawl can't benefit from the detachment as he lacks the keywords. Fail ?

It's throwing a bone to Metallica I guess, even though our trait really should work with heavy weapons anyways.

Well, turning their guns to assault is actually pretty good if you want to move and your phosphor weapons without penalty, getting in a good position before your canticles change.

But I'm pissed off at this. could have just said imperial robots or something to give wiggle room for forge world or future releases, but no no no, has to be specifically kastellans. Jerks.

Still though, this may entice me to play a full robot list again for my Lucius, though at this point I prefer to take a knight over robots anyways because of how versatile a crusader is compared to dakka or fist bots.

 Aaranis wrote:
Cohort Cybernetica preview ! We don't have all the infos but what's here is already interesting:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/06/6th-dec-imperial-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

Spoiler:

A stratagem that allows Robots to add 3" to their charge move ? I guess Lucius just made a comeback. DS Fistelans and charge 6". Hoping for a reasonable point decrease on the fists now.

Also describing a stratagem that turns their Heavy weapons to Assault but I fail to see the use, except once more for Fistelans with flamers that want to sprint towards the enemy and still burn them.

Aah, my thirst for leaks is sated a bit.

EDIT: just noticed that Cawl can't benefit from the detachment as he lacks the keywords. Fail ?

The use i see for Strafing Fire Run is to use it on triple phosphor blaster kastellans so they can relocate with their 8" move to get a better angle of fire without suffering a minus 1 to hit for moving with a heavy weapon. Now this benefits Metalica armies as they can now advance and fire them with no penalty to really get a good spot to shoot and then pop Binaric Override or for Gria Warlords with Emotionless Clarity, they can now fire their guns in close combat freeing them up.

If we then add in Elimination Volley we will get 3+ to hit Kastellans who have moved and set up for Protector Protocols and getting re-roll 1's to hit from a nearby Dominus or flat re-rolls with Cawl.

To me that adds alot more flexibility to Non Mars armies, where LOS blocking terrain has forced us to move and thus hit on a 5+ (4+ if you are using Destroyers for the Elimination Volley) or even 6+ with a further -1 to hit from certain abilities. Other people's tactics may vary, but i like my Admech to be mobile.