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Str 8 AP 3 on the Krak Missile vs Str 9 AP 2 on the Lascannon, in regards to armor or tougher targets.

When lighter infantry is the target, Str 4 AP 6 small blasts from Frag Missiles beats out the single Lascannon shot.

I play Codex Space Marines so it is much cheaper for me to get Missiles en masse from Devs and Typhoons as opposed to getting Lascannons on Tacs, Devs, or armor.

Assuming melta elsewhere in the list for true anti-AV14. Is the 1 extra strength and AP value really worth that much more when targeting armor at range?

Discuss the pro's and con's of each and the platforms you use to get them onto the table.

in 6th edition its possible to glance a Armor 14 vehicle to death. You also need more shots to effectively "hit" a flyer. Missle lauchers all the way i say!

Only lascannon in your list should be on the razorback together with a twin linked plasmagun. thats still a good deal.. and gives you the extra AP2 shots you need sumtimes..

UltraTacSgt wrote:

Str 8 AP 3 on the Krak Missile vs Str 9 AP 2 on the Lascannon, in regards to armor or tougher targets.

When lighter infantry is the target, Str 4 AP 6 small blasts from Frag Missiles beats out the single Lascannon shot.

I play Codex Space Marines so it is much cheaper for me to get Missiles en masse from Devs and Typhoons as opposed to getting Lascannons on Tacs, Devs, or armor.

Assuming melta elsewhere in the list for true anti-AV14. Is the 1 extra strength and AP value really worth that much more when targeting armor at range?

Discuss the pro's and con's of each and the platforms you use to get them onto the table.

it really depends on the comparative cost, which is different in every codex. For CSM and IG the lascannon is only 5 points more expensive making it a steal compared to the missile launcher. Depending on your army and how you buy it you might have more of one type of model and that really makes a difference as well.

Dont underestimate the +1 str and better AP. Just because you can glance stuff to death doesnt mean you have to. The better AP means you are going to blow things up twices as often with a damage result and the extra strenth means you will get a damage result more often(infinitly more often against AV14 and twice as often for AV13)

My philosophy with Space Marines is to put expensive heavy weapons (lascannons, plasma cannons) on Tactical squads and take massed missile launchers on Devastators; both weapons have their places, but in light of the cost lascannon Devastators are infeasible.

Lascannons on Tac squads are a pretty decent investment. 10 points for a lascannon is about the cheapest option we have and they are a really good punch. I ususally do something like this:

LC/PG 10 man (190)

ML/PG 10 man (180) - if i have 10 points to spare here ill upgrade to a las

MM/MG or ML/MG 10 man (175)

In general our devastators are waayyy overcosted, even with missiles. Go with SW ally with longfangs if you really want them/already have the models or just dont do devastators (AC/LC predators or dakka preds or TFCs or vindis are much better and more efficent HS investments).

 AnomanderRake wrote:
My philosophy with Space Marines is to put expensive heavy weapons (lascannons, plasma cannons) on Tactical squads and take massed missile launchers on Devastators; both weapons have their places, but in light of the cost lascannon Devastators are infeasible.

Really? So that expensive lascannon gets to snapfire all the way across the field? My preference is the other way around. Devastators should carry the lascannons. camp out, and actually hit stuff. Mobile infantry should be carrying the less expensive options (heavy bolters, plasma cannons, etc.) to deal with local problems.

The whole "glance it to death" thing is for necrons, or people who field FAR more heavy weapons then I can. When I want to kill a tank, I use a big gun. Lascannons are that gun when you need to kill something outside of point blank range. I will occasionally field a lascannon in my 4th tac squad, but prefer to keep my LCs on dedicated platforms. Auto/Las preds, LRs, TLLC/ML dreads. Their job is to project anti-armor fire across the table, and threaten everything.

The problem with lascannons in tac squads is that the rest of the squad offer nothing to it, beside ablative wounds. If something rates a LC being fired at it, the bolters are just going to bounce off. So you can't just look at the 10 point upgrade cost, but have to figure in the marines. It's OK to have wargear that lets you work outside your normal role, but be careful of spending to much on it, or compromising your primary role. Sticking a melta gun or a MM on a tac squad is fine. They are cheep/free, and the squad is going to be in that range anyway, boltering infantry to death. But paying points for a LC that's going to sit back and make the rest of the marines useless is not my style.

Missile launcher are at least free. So I don't care if I just snap fire them the whole game. If I really need to shoot it, I can. Generally I steer away from them though. Partly because almost every time I toss a frag missile downrange, it disappoints me. Curse my scatter die. I'll take an assault cannon over a CML in tac terminators, HB over ML on scouts. I find they have better synergy with the rest of the squad. I try to avoid the whole squad taking smoke breaks while bob shoots a krack downrange. I do like a typhoon/HB speeder, and half of the guns in my dev squads are always MLs. So I do field a bunch in most games.

Missile launchers are grossly inferior to lascannons. As a marine, it sort of makes sense to take them as you can get them for basically free (and lascannon devs are absurdly expensive). My vote would be for neither, though.

I'd start looking at the multimelta. The tank-busting and termie-hunting capabilities of a lascannon, for cheaper than a lascannon.

Just to note a little math, S8 Ap1 outside of melta range kills AV12 just as fast as S9 Ap2. A 24" lascannon might not sound the spiffiest, but given its melta abilities, it creates a "NO!" zone around them. Throw a few around, and running vehicles around the board is going to get suddenly dangerous for your opponents.

Thing is though in this current day and age you will have at least 1 tac squad sitting back home on an objective. Whether it be a combat squad with your LC or the full 10 man, you will almost certainly have at least 1 objective sitting squad. Thus that becomes the ideal place to put an LC, and the bolters dont just become ablative wounds but also things to shoot at whatever comes close to them trying to take the objective away.

You will also note that I only have 1-2 LCs in my tacs, since generally at LEAST the third 10 man tac is wandering the battlefield looking for enemy objectives. It's all abouce balance and keeping some tac squads in back with cheap heavy weapons holding objectives whereas others are in front with flamers and meltas hunting for enemy ones.

HBs vs MLs with scouts is a different debate and at this point i might agree with you on the HB (because I just cant hit a barn with BS 3 and a krak missile), but then ive moved away from using scouts in general.


Auto-las preds are better lascannon platforms for sure, but LRS/TTLC/ML dreads are both similarly overcosted and inefficent for their respective staying power. (AV 12 dreads are pretty easy to get through). Granted, my list revolves around FW, so I use contemptor dreads with khereas assault cannons and hyperios platforms for cheaper krak missiles/more AA, but even when i wasnt those particular ways of getting lascannons just arnt worth their cost. MM attack bikes are a much better and more efficent way of getting anti tank across the field than a LR, and a lot more durable.

For Long Fangs I take MLs. A lascannon costs 25pts compared to the 10pts of a ML. They're just not 2.5 times more effective than a ML.

For Guard, it's the LC > ML. For 5pts more it is totally worth it.

With the new CSM book six man havoc squads with four lascannons has proven much more useful than missile launchers. With less low armor vehicles like rhinos the extra strength is worth the cost, not to mention the AP2.

 Griddlelol wrote:
For Long Fangs I take MLs. A lascannon costs 25pts compared to the 10pts of a ML. They're just not 2.5 times more effective than a ML.

For Guard, it's the LC > ML. For 5pts more it is totally worth it.

Long Fangs have some skewed pricing:
Missile launchers are 5 points less than chaos or IG
Las Cannons are 5 points more than chaos or IG

I like Tac Squad with lascannon and plasma gun, with Las/Plas razor back.
Combat Squad them. You can bunker the lascannon in the back and push up with the plasma and the razor back can sit with whichever group needs the help more.

I'll also take the Icarus Lascannon with the defense line to give that rear unit another shot.

-Matt

Man lascannons are not something that you want to be doing with the space marine codex and missile launchers are hardly encouraged as well.

It's actually much easier to field heavy weapons in the form of speeders, riflemen, fliers and predators. I guess the humble attack bike and razorback should get a nod too, but razorbacks with expensive weapons aren't what they used to be.

BA devis get quite cheap weapons, but I do prefer massed missile launchers, although I did like 4 Plasma cannons on them, use libby with divination for very good offensive (re roll misses and ignore cover saves). Add that to assault marines as troops and its quite a good combo imo

If i am not using SR's I take at least one squad of devi's

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
My philosophy with Space Marines is to put expensive heavy weapons (lascannons, plasma cannons) on Tactical squads and take massed missile launchers on Devastators; both weapons have their places, but in light of the cost lascannon Devastators are infeasible.

Really? So that expensive lascannon gets to snapfire all the way across the field? My preference is the other way around. Devastators should carry the lascannons. camp out, and actually hit stuff. Mobile infantry should be carrying the less expensive options (heavy bolters, plasma cannons, etc.) to deal with local problems.

...Who said they did any moving? My armies tend to leave the Tactical squads and the Devastators to provide fire support while a small band of Ravenwing and Deathwing zoom up and smash the enemy in the face. I acknowledge that if you're planning on moving your Tactical squads at all heavy bolters are probably your best option, since three shots are more likely to hit than one.

He did make me laugh when said he wants to carry around things like HB and Plasma cannons, PC's cant move and fire bud, only place for them is static, either combat squa'd or devis

Missle Launchers are my prefered choice on tac. squads because of their cost and their versatility. Although they don't particularly excell at taking out either vehicles or infantry, they can do both for the rock bottom price of 0 points. Lascannons I prefer to take on better platforms, such as Predators and Razorbacks. However, if you are looking for anti-tank, I would say that the Lascannon is the better choice, but neither are ideal. If you compare the math, Meltaguns and Multi-Meltas are by far the most reliable AT weapons that space marines have.

Basically, you take the following depending on what you want to deal with:

Light Armour (AV <=11): Missile Launcher, Plasma Weaponry
Medium Armour (AV 12 or AV 13): Lascannon
Heavy Armour (AV 14): Melta weaponry.

The gottcha with devastators is the sergent's ability to grant BS 5 to one fig. I like 3x ML + 1 Las. Combat squad the devs and take 1 ML and LAs with the sgt. Now I have one BS5 S9 AP2 shot and on BS4 S8 AP3 shot. The other half has less pressure on it and can be used for lighter vehicles or troop concentrations. 250 pts it can be very effective.

Tacticals - especially with Vulkan - I would be tempted to go pure MM. Snapfiring TL MM is almost giving them a BS 2 shot and then they are still quite cheap. Otherwise - seeing I want tacticals to move, I would avoid plasma cannons since they can't snap fire. It may be that heavy bolters have a home

The lascannon. I play Guard so i've no need for the missile launcher. If I need anti-horde i'll take the heavy bolter AND the lascannon. That said, the lascannons are for insurance more than been the main anti-tank guns.They'll get a kill here and there but between the manticore, demolisher and the melta variants, I don't need to rely on them.

In my eyes it all depends on the role of the model carrying it, Over-all though I do prefer ML's for the bonus of anti-MEQ and anti-infantry.

Largo39 wrote:


In general our devastators are waayyy overcosted, even with missiles. Go with SW ally with longfangs if you really want them/already have the models or just dont do devastators (AC/LC predators or dakka preds or TFCs or vindis are much better and more efficent HS investments).

Auto las preds are the only way I take las cannons in my army. 120 points for 2 auto cannon and las cannon shots can't be beat by anything in the codex if your looking for the las cannons. And on an AV13 vehicle they're pretty tough. I run 2 auto las and a thunderfire. It's 4 AC, 4LC, and 4 str 6 blasts a turn which can be pretty devastating to multiple targets for 340 points. And you get a bolster to possibly give them better cover/cover, board depending.

That works, my list uses a vindicator/TFC/mortis contemptor instead of AC/LC preds. I get my lascannons from the icarus and from a man-lascannon one on of my tac squads., but then I get away with it because it's a very synergistic list with FW stuff