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Squad of 10 CCW + MoS + PS = 175

Noise Marines 10 CCW + PS = 195

For the difference you can give the first squad 2 melta guns. So I guess I am asking is the 20 point tax worth the doom siren and blastmaster?

If you are facing a lot of vehicles, the CSM maybe a better option. For infantry, a squad kitted out with a lot of sonic blasters will decimate, especially paired with the Symphony psychic power.

The noise marines are already fearless, thus work well without a lord attached.

The doom siren is an excellent weapon, but the normal marines can take other special weapons.

It's really about how your build your list. Either way works, but if your attaching a slanessh HQ to a unit, make it normal marines and then take the icon.

66% chance to get a squad with that, may be useful for a unit paired with a sorcerer I guess. * Sorry didnt notice third power was warpcharge 2, that a pretty god chance for that power

On the topic of infantry (- symphony of pain)

Sonic Blaster = 1 extra shot on charge (+20 odd points for that + another 10 for the ccw weapon)

vs

2 flamers on the CSM.

DAKKA 10 noise marines fully kitted out put out 54 bolter shots and a str8 Ap3 small blast both of which ignore cover also they come with fearless instead of having to waste a HQ babysitting them. also the doomsiren in assault is marvelous

 hazal wrote:
Squad of 10 CCW + MoS + PS = 175

Noise Marines 10 CCW + PS = 195

For the difference you can give the first squad 2 melta guns. So I guess I am asking is the 20 point tax worth the doom siren and blastmaster?

Do not discount the fact that noise marines are fearless. That makes up for some of the 20 point differential as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
DAKKA 10 noise marines fully kitted out put out 54 bolter shots and a str8 Ap3 small blast both of which ignore cover also they come with fearless instead of having to waste a HQ babysitting them. also the doomsiren in assault is marvelous

The doom siren is a great weapon. It makes most space marine players pause and go "Wait? What? AP3?"

yeah if you put lucius in a NM squad with a doom siren it makes Space Marine players cry

Against IG, Tyranids, and both flavors of Eldar, Noise Marines with sonic blasters are engines of death. Against Power Armor or necrons or Tau, you're better off with marked Marines. It all comes down to how much your opponent's army relies on cover saves rather than armor saves.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Against IG, Tyranids, and both flavors of Eldar, Noise Marines with sonic blasters are engines of death. Against Power Armor or necrons or Tau, you're better off with marked Marines. It all comes down to how much your opponent's army relies on cover saves rather than armor saves.

That is not necessarily true. Don't discount the heavy 3 nature of sonic blasters. They may only be AP5, but 10 noise marines putting out 30 shots, 20 should hit and 10 should wound. That is still 2-3 dead marines.

Don't get me wrong, I see the value in marked marines as well, but I use them in a different way.

I generally tend to run my noise marines in smaller squads of 5 or 6 as they are fearless. They can camp out on objectives with relative safety.

I run marines in squads of 10 to take advantage of the special weapons.

And, once they FAQ the codex and you can take a blastmaster in 5 man noise marine squads, I will start doing that again and camp them out on rear objectives in a rhino with a havoc launcher again.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Against IG, Tyranids, and both flavors of Eldar, Noise Marines with sonic blasters are engines of death. Against Power Armor or necrons or Tau, you're better off with marked Marines. It all comes down to how much your opponent's army relies on cover saves rather than armor saves.

Wow, then I must suck, because these guys rip huge holes in my tactical squads. Plus, how can you guarantee what army you'll be playing, you going to change lists everytime you play?

"yeah if you put lucius in a NM squad with a doom siren it makes Space Marine players cry"


And your going to cry by putting a CC HQ with a squad thats only effective by standing still w/ the doom siren, it needs to have 10 members, so have fun walking because you can't fit 11 inside of a rhino. Now you have a CC unit that has to sit on its ass... Pretty pricey to have a 1, S8 AP3 ignore covers small blast that can still scatter =)

The points premium for them is wrapped up in the Ignore Cover. If you're getting a 3+ armor save, those points are wasted. By the way, those 30 shots (if they stand still) are not much better than the 20 that you'd get out of Rapid Firing 10 normal Marines after misses, failed wounds, and made saves come into play. Tack on that a Slaanesh Marked CSM is 15 points, while a Noise Marine with SB is 20. For the price of 10 NM, you can 14 Marked CSM.

Force them to maneuver and NM with Sonic Blasters are no better than CSM with bolters at short range unless they're fighting someone with almost no armor..

I am very much a point effective person. CSM marked will suit me better for the melee option I was considering.

Sonice blasters you can fire twice and then assault correct?

Noise Marines are a good assault unit if you want to do rhino assaults.

10 noise marines, champ with doom siren, combi-melta, lightning claw, rhino with combi-melta. Icon of excess.

You disembark on top of an entrenched unit. Flame them with the ap3 doom siren, then rapid fire bolters. Whatever is left shoots you back.

Next turn you siren them again, shoot your pistols. Assault with initiative 5.

Between doom siren, initiative 5, and feel no pain icon you really shouldn't lose many models in an assault.

You don't want these guys anywhere near 2+ saves, but as standard objective clearers I don't think there is a better unit in the codex.

decoste007xt wrote:
"yeah if you put lucius in a NM squad with a doom siren it makes Space Marine players cry"


And your going to cry by putting a CC HQ with a squad thats only effective by standing still w/ the doom siren, it needs to have 10 members, so have fun walking because you can't fit 11 inside of a rhino. Now you have a CC unit that has to sit on its ass... Pretty pricey to have a 1, S8 AP3 ignore covers small blast that can still scatter =)

I think the point was to add Lucius to a doom siren squad, for 2x AP3 template weapons.

decoste007xt wrote:
"yeah if you put lucius in a NM squad with a doom siren it makes Space Marine players cry"


And your going to cry by putting a CC HQ with a squad thats only effective by standing still w/ the doom siren, it needs to have 10 members, so have fun walking because you can't fit 11 inside of a rhino. Now you have a CC unit that has to sit on its ass... Pretty pricey to have a 1, S8 AP3 ignore covers small blast that can still scatter =)

you are confusing doomsirens and blastmasters

doomsirens need only 5 men and are str5
blastmasters take 10 men and are overpriced

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
DAKKA 10 noise marines fully kitted out put out 54 bolter shots and a str8 Ap3 small blast both of which ignore cover also they come with fearless instead of having to waste a HQ babysitting them. also the doomsiren in assault is marvelous

Yeah, this. The large shot output is a very effective tool when used right.

I take 4 squads of 10 Noise Marines with Sonic Blasters, Blastmaster, IoE and a Rhino as part of a 2000 point army. Right now, I am 9 for 12 in games using them under 6th edition rules.

In order to make them effective, what I do is advance the Noise Marines for a turn or two, disembark, and create a wall of Rhinos opponents have to squeeze through in order to get to my troops. I place the Rhinos so there are clear shooting lanes between them, allowing my Noise Marines to stay stationary without taking a lot of shots themselves. The Rhinos are typically staggered into 2 ranks and spaced out so I can still fire between the Rhinos in the rear.

When I want to shoot something up, I just move the Rhinos out of the way, at which point I am firing 110+ shots per turn. When someone deep strikes terminators or comes at me with assault units, I simply get back into the Rhinos and drive away flat out. Otherwise, I let opponents come at me and take their chances versus massed firing.

This strategy creates a lot of dilemmas for my opponents. The biggest is with target selection. They have to decide whether to try and pop a Rhino, which exposes their units potentially to 100+ shots on the next turn, or to shoot at the Noise Marines they can see and charge between the Rhinos, which gives them safety from the guns so long as they actually make the assault. When people do assault, overwatch shots typically take out at least one model in the opposing army. More often than not, opponents try will to get into a shooting match with my guys from between the Rhinos, and the IoE makes a huge difference in terms of outcomes.

Another strategy I use when I can is infiltrating the Noise Marines, they are very good at tarpitting an opponent on their own side of the board. 2 squads of infiltrated Noise Marines with a Rhino can really do some damage when they go first, and create situations where my opponents battle plans are really disrupted. I don't know how it would work out for me if I was going second.

Forget about the mathhammer on this scenario, my Blastmasters usually take out 2 - 3 MEQ per round of massed fire, my sonic weapons probably average 4 MEQ themselves, and I typically have more than 6 Noise Marines left per squad at the end of the game. The big vulnerabilities I have found are against Tau, who can usually shoot up the Rhinos in the first round, IG, who like to drop pie plates, and Eldar, who drop fortune on their units before shootouts. But I have some ideas on how to deal with each of them that I am currently working on.

I always use these guys with other big, offensive threats. My lists usually include 2 squads of bikers, a CL biker with the Black Mace, a Defiler and Obliterators who usually deep strike into the opponent's rear. My opponents tend to pay more attention to the Defiler and it's battle cannon then the Noise Marines, and sometimes leave units in the backfield to deal with the bikers and the Obliterators that would be better used popping Rhinos. It's kind of sick how people underestimate them.

decoste007xt wrote:
"yeah if you put lucius in a NM squad with a doom siren it makes Space Marine players cry"


And your going to cry by putting a CC HQ with a squad thats only effective by standing still w/ the doom siren, it needs to have 10 members, so have fun walking because you can't fit 11 inside of a rhino. Now you have a CC unit that has to sit on its ass... Pretty pricey to have a 1, S8 AP3 ignore covers small blast that can still scatter =)

Rhinos are an easy KP for the enemy and if you take CCWs instead of sonic blasters they do not have to stand still as the doom siren is an assault wepon

Crimson-King2120 wrote:

Rhinos are an easy KP for the enemy

They were an easy KP for the enemy before, and they still are. Doesn't stop people from using them

What do noise marines have over CSM? Fearless and sonic weapons vs no fearless but special weapons (flamer, melta, plasma). That's all, folks. That's a wrap. That's the difference. Th-th-th-th-that's all, folks

Fearless is the reason to take noise marines. Fearless that cannot be removed by a lucky pres shot

I think noise marines are the best of the cults now. Doom siren and combi-meltas for assault. Blast master and sonic blasters for a static firebase.

Aswell as the above - Noise marines are cool.
When I expand my force from Undivided to include marked units, it'll be Slaaneshy with a couple of squads of Noisy Marines.

My bad, for some reason I got the Doom Siren and the Blastmaster mixed up.

Doom Siren is a boss, although why the "artefact" is a S4 AP3 flamer for 45pts and a doomsiren is 15pts on a noise marine squad I'll never understand.

decoste007xt wrote:
My bad, for some reason I got the Doom Siren and the Blastmaster mixed up.

Doom Siren is a boss, although why the "artefact" is a S4 AP3 flamer for 45pts and a doomsiren is 15pts on a noise marine squad I'll never understand.

Doom Siren is effectively an AP3 Heavy Flamer, limited to the one 27pt model (per 95pt+ squad of Noise Marines)
The Burning Brand is an AP3 Flamer, with Torrent (12" range) and Soul Blaze that can be taken by anything with access to the Artefacts Wargear section.
Apparently GW decided Torrent is worth a lot. (It is a fairly good ability)

I haven't cared for Soul Blaze, Torrent is quite nice.. but I'd rather have a S5 AP3 flamer than a S4 AP3, Torrent, Soulblaze =) Putting MoT on units is almost a waste now and Icon of Flame (sp?) for soul blaze hasn't felt worth it.

But you make a fine position.

Kevlar wrote:
I think noise marines are the best of the cults now. Doom siren and combi-meltas for assault. Blast master and sonic blasters for a static firebase.

Also, they are the cheapest cult troops in the game. Do not discount that either.
Every one is all into plague marines but I cannot use them for I just don't like nurgle. But toughness 5 aside, you are paying an extra 7 points per model for plague marines. Even if you factor in sonic blasters, its still 4 points more. And, as you all know, a point here and a point there start to add up quickly.

The biggest thing I like about noise marines is that they are swinging first before normal marines. And now they can take FNP as well? I know I am biased, but Slaanesh all the way.

12" range with a template that can't miss? It IS really nice (enough for me to convert a Burning Brand to give it as an option for my magnetised termi-lord)

As for Soul Blaze.... I think 5pts to give my Defiler and Land Raider a little extra kick is perfectly fine, and reasonably priced...

But 15pts for just Bolt Weaponry to gain the rule? not even close to worth it.

Now if the Soulblaze tokens stacked? (or lets just stay they stacked for Thousand Sons as they didn't get much love in this book either :( ) Totally worth it.

I can see Thousand Son legions being a force to be reckoned with.

Fearless is the reason why you'd pay a premium for noise marines versus regular CSM with MoS.

I think this topic keeps coming up again and again on this forum because the point costs are well balanced. Fearless and different weapon options are worth about what they cost, so people have a hard time deciding and are looking fruitlessly for a definitive deciding factor.

CSM are so cheap now that they were very balanced, and they make cult troop choices stand out.

Before they were expensive, and cult troops were really our only option.. Plaguemarines are more pricey, noise marines took a nice needed dip... Khorne berzerkers got worse.. (and better?). So the CSM are looking like a very attractive option.

Obviously if you have an HQ in with them this Fearless issue disappears as you are now fearless... But 2 doom sirens is making me all tingly inside.