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Love is a powerful catalyst in war. It often causes them. Are there examples of love in the Grimdark setting?

In the grim darkness of the far future, love cannot bloom.

...there is only war.

40k love = fanatism, obssesion, snuff

Vect fell in love and then got bored.

Solomon Voss and Askarid Sha.

Gregor Eisenhorn & Alizebeth Bequin - tragic love, which could never be physically consumated, between the psyker & the blank becomes one of the central themes in the latter two books of the Eisenhorn trilogy.

Papa Nurgle loves his children.

Orks love to wage war.

Inquisitor Czevak has feelings for a Living Saint.

 Polvilhovoador wrote:
Inquisitor Czevak has feelings for a Living Saint.

Come to think of it, doesn't Brin Milo have feelings for Saint Sabbat's reincarnation?

The Ordo Hereticus loves to burn witches!

Games Workshop Loves Your Money.

Love does happen in the 40K setting and then usually ends brutally during a xeno invasion.

 Zakiriel wrote:


Love does happen in the 40K setting and then usually ends brutally during a xeno invasion.

Or in a very raunchy manner...google-fu + curiousity + lots of time on one's hands = 1d4chan. Some of those authors ought to be flogged

Or one of them ends up getting possessed by a demon...

 Compel wrote:
Or one of them ends up getting possessed by a demon...

See what I mean? Some of them really ought to be flogged.

Despite what the lesser minds of the forum might claim, love DOES exist in 40k. However, it is rarely a major player or motivation for major players, because the setting is for a wargame of massive proportions.

Plenty of humans fall in love and get married-- or don't get married, as the situation might be. Eldar as well, with a passion that can hardly be described by humans. Tau don't do it AFAIK, and Orks have no gender for love (and only love war). The Necron lords may be capable of it, but they really have no one to feel it towards. Generally, "love" is mostly relegated to Humans and Eldar, but it certainly does exist and is a motivation for many people. It's even possible that the Emperor's actions, as foolhardy as they are, were motivated by love in the end, even if it wasn't romantic love.


And of course, Slaanesh represents the "eros" and "ludus" concepts of love. Keep in mind that there's many concepts of love.

wikipedia wrote:Eros – a passionate physical and emotional love based on aesthetic enjoyment; stereotype of romantic love
Ludus – a love that is played as a game or sport; conquest; may have multiple partners at once
Storge – an affectionate love that slowly develops from friendship, based on similarity (kindred to Philia)
Pragma – love that is driven by the head, not the heart; undemonstrative
Mania – obsessive love; experience great emotional highs and lows; very possessive and often jealous lovers
Agape – selfless altruistic love

Sisters of Battle are meant to be driven by Agape for the Emperor and the Imperium, while many of the more tyrannical rulers of 40k are driven by manic feelings, for example.

 Melissia wrote:
Eldar as well, with a passion that can hardly be described by humans.

Sorry lady, but if Path of the Warrior is to be believed, then I'm not impressed. Korlandril and Thirianna act in the same manner as Human teenagers do, and since they're probably several Human decades or even centuries old, then so much for Eldar inscrutability.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Sorry lady, but if Path of the Warrior is to be believed, then I'm not impressed.

Irrelevant. Just because an incompetent author is incapable of writing an alien mindset doesn't mean that the alien mindset doesn't exist.

 Melissia wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Sorry lady, but if Path of the Warrior is to be believed, then I'm not impressed.

Irrelevant. Just because an incompetent author is incapable of writing an alien mindset doesn't mean that the alien mindset doesn't exist.

Ouch No need to be so prickly.

Gav Thorpe is incompetent? On what grounds?

He tried to write an inhuman mindset and failed.

He may be able to write humans very well, but he isn't that good at writing non-humans.

This would be like if someone wrote an Ork who got tired of war. It's just stupid and wrong.

 Melissia wrote:


He may be able to write humans very well, but he isn't that good at writing non-humans.

Well, that's to be expected

There have been many humans who have successfully written characters with inhuman mindsets.

 Melissia wrote:
There have been many humans who have successfully written characters with inhuman mindsets.

Oh? Care to elaborate? The only one I know of is H.P. Lovecraft, and his non-Human characters are less inscrutable and more mind-screwing.

One of the few canon examples I have found is from old Epic Space Marine literature.

When the second battle for Armageddon was going on the Grand Master of the Legio Metalica (Iron Skulls) Titan Legion died (thought by all to be an assassination), and Princeps Senioris Kurt Mannheim held temporary command of the legion. By Imperial Law it was his duty to obey the Overlord (which was the traitorous Herman Von Strab). Von Strab refused to listen to Mannheims advice on how to defeat the massive ork invasion.

So, unable to betray his oath of Loyalty to the Emperor, he put on his best dress uniform, said goodbye to his wife and children, and climbed into his Titan Steel Hammer to lead his battle groups to certain destruction.

The Legion fought hard and the steel hammer accounted for three Ork Gargants before it was crippled. Even then Mannheim steered his machine right into the center of the Ork forces before it's reactor melted down....

The titan legion was almost completely destroyed that day and took no further part in the second battle for Armageddon.

To me, the fact that he knew he was going to die, yet faced it with courage, knowing that he had to protect his family and his fellow man at any cost, shows the greatest love a person can have for another.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
One of the few canon examples I have found is from old Epic Space Marine literature.

When the second battle for Armageddon was going on the Grand Master of the Legio Metalica (Iron Skulls) Titan Legion died (thought by all to be an assassination, and Princeps Senioris Kurt Mannheim held temporary command of the legion. By Imperial Law it was his duty to obey the Overlord (which was the traitorous Herman Von Strab. Von Strab refused to listen to Mannheims advice on how to defeat the massive ork invasion.

So, unable to betray his oath of Loyalty to the Emperor, he put on his best dress uniform, said goodbye to his wife and children, and climbed into his Titan Steel Hammer to lead his battle groups to certain destruction.

The Legion fought hard and the steel hammer accounted for three Ork Gargants before it was crippled. Even then Mannheim steered his machine right into the center of the Ork forces before it's reactor melted down....

The titan legion was almost completely destroyed that day and took no further part in the second battle for Armageddon.

To me, the fact that he knew he was going to die, yet faced it with courage, knowing that he had to protect his family and his fellow man at any cost, shows the greatest love a person can have for another.

+1 to you, good sir

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
There have been many humans who have successfully written characters with inhuman mindsets.

Oh? Care to elaborate? The only one I know of is H.P. Lovecraft, and his non-Human characters are less inscrutable and more mind-screwing.

The webcomic Flaky Pastry (the goblins, biologically, do not feel a conscience like we do, amongst other mental differences; one goblin has a conscience magically forced upon her, and becomes emotionally crippled as a result) comes to mind, same with Freefall (Sam Starfall thinks on a level quite different from ours, having evolved from a scavenger species). As does the game Kingdoms of Amalur (the fae are closer to human than the other examples, but they still think quite differently when you actually get down to the details)) or Sheogorath from the Elder Scrolls. White Wolf tried its best to instill this in the Old World of Darkness setting for any supernatural creatures, although many players ignored it.

Hell, even 40k did it right a few times. The Ork comic is a great example of inhuman thinking, and certainly the Tau books have tried to describe them this way as well.

 Melissia wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
There have been many humans who have successfully written characters with inhuman mindsets.

Oh? Care to elaborate? The only one I know of is H.P. Lovecraft, and his non-Human characters are less inscrutable and more mind-screwing.

The webcomic Flaky Pastry (the goblins, biologically, do not feel a conscience like we do, amongst other mental differences; one goblin has a conscience magically forced upon her, and becomes emotionally crippled as a result) comes to mind, same with Freefall (Sam Starfall thinks on a level quite different from ours, having evolved from a scavenger species). As does the game Kingdoms of Amalur (the fae) or Sheogorath from the Elder Scrolls. White Wolf tried its best to instill this in the Old World of Darkness setting for any supernatural creatures, although many players ignored it.

Hell, even 40k did it right a few times. The Ork comic is a great example of inhuman thinking, and certainly the Tau books have tried to describe them this way as well.

Come to think of it, the Reapers from Mass Effect come close; while you can understand the reasons behind the Cycle of Extinction, the logic behind it is inhuman in its own way.

EDIT: And the Gravemind - everyone thinks its bad, and from our point of view its goals are undesirable, but as far as its concerned, everything and everyone it infects simply becomes part of a greater whole.

 Melissia wrote:
He tried to write an inhuman mindset and failed.

He may be able to write humans very well, but he isn't that good at writing non-humans.

This would be like if someone wrote an Ork who got tired of war. It's just stupid and wrong.

+1, and completely agree...
and Cycle of Extinction is totaly human/nature way of thinking...you know "life circle","world wars","controling the nature"....Besides,I'm wondering where was it used before (in what SF book/movie/comic) ?

O, wait - Terminator and BSG comes close...

there's jaq'draco and Meh'lindi in inquisitor