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So, we've got the Punisher Cannon, the Kheres-pattern Assault Cannon and the Avenger Bolt Cannon.

They all look similar, they are all about the same size, they are all fielded by the same faction and they all have roughly the same battlefield role.

But they have totally different rules.

Does anyone else get bothered by this? Why couldn't they just use one set of rules, or two at most? I see absolutely no reason why the avenger needs a new gun when the kheres rules would fit it perfectly.

For lasguns, autocannons, missile launchers, flamers and so on one set of rules covers a huge variety of designs. Why change that tradition and make unique rules for three weapons which are pretty much the same thing?

I know it's a really silly thing to get worked up over, but ever since I noticed it, it's been bugging me.

They are different just like how regular rifles are different but are often pretty close to the same overall dimensions.

Those three weapons are different in they have different calibers and rate of fire.

The Avenger Bolt Cannon is basically half of a Vulkan Megabolter. Its part of the bolter family.

The Kheres Assault Cannon is just an assault cannon with a higher rate of fire.

And the Punisher cannon is a smaller caliber rotary autocannon.


The three are totally different weapons fluffwise.

But, they've all got mostly the same rules, right? Lots of shots, pretty high strength, average AP?

Its mainly about having different size weapons of a similar design for different sized platforms I thought.

Good example is D-weapons for Eldar, starts with wraithguard d-weapons then moves up from that to support platforms, vehicles, titans etc.

Generally going from man portable up through different vehicles will change the stats by making it longer range, or a larger blast radius.

They are the same weapons but on different scales.

It's done for gameplay purposes, to give a variety of rules as appropriate for each unit. Since no unit can take more than one of the weapons there's no confusion and the superficial similarity in design doesn't matter.

 Kaldor wrote:
But, they've all got mostly the same rules, right? Lots of shots, pretty high strength, average AP?

Not really. Kheres Assault cannons are Str6 AP4 rending, Avenger Bolt Cannons are Str6 AP3, and Punisher cannons are Str5 AP5(IIRC)

And each has a different number of shots.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
But, they've all got mostly the same rules, right? Lots of shots, pretty high strength, average AP?

Not really. Kheres Assault cannons are Str6 AP4 rending, Avenger Bolt Cannons are Str6 AP3, and Punisher cannons are Str5 AP5(IIRC)

And each has a different number of shots.

Sadly the punisher is AP -

Ehh whatever. Point still stands.

Because of things like the XM214 5.56mm rotary cannon, the M-134 7.62mm rotary minigun, the M-61 20mm Vulcan rotary cannon, the GAU-8 Avenger 30mm rotary cannon.

All different guns that are all rotaries. Game nerds like big guns, and rotary cannons are big guns (all are bigger than their respective rifles/cannons made with single barrels).

Besides, gatlings are cool.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Kaldor wrote:
But, they've all got mostly the same rules, right? Lots of shots, pretty high strength, average AP?

Not really. Kheres Assault cannons are Str6 AP4 rending, Avenger Bolt Cannons are Str6 AP3, and Punisher cannons are Str5 AP5(IIRC)

And each has a different number of shots.

Yeah, but the same general rules of dealing with it will apply. Keep your troops in cover, don't bother putting your Terminators in cover, etc. The bolt cannons being AP3 changes things for some armies, but for the most part the differences between rules aren't going to translate into different reactions for each weapon.

If they were more different visually, such as a plasma pistol, plasma gun, and plasma cannon, would it be less of an issue?

I'd say they are plenty different visually.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Ehh whatever. Point still stands.

Knew I should have thrown an emote in there.

It's sad because it's makes the gun suck at what it's supposed to do., not because of anything to do with the discussion at hand.

It's not an issue. They're all different sizes and mounted on different things. From a fluff perspective it's the same as a regular military using different kinds of rotary weapons. US military itself for instance operates the M134 Minigun, M61 Vulcan, GAU-8 Avenger, and GAU-19 rotary cannons. So yeah.

If anything, I say we need more rotary cannons. Especially for Orks

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
If anything, I say we need more rotary cannons. Especially for Orks

Ork guns should all be rotary, shooting at BS1, with at least assault 10 and any 1s hit the unit behind you.

 chromedog wrote:
All different guns that are all rotaries. Game nerds like big guns, and rotary cannons are big guns (all are bigger than their respective rifles/cannons made with single barrels).

Besides, gatlings are cool.

Basically this. Rotary cannons are awesome. 40k is all about rule of cool. So there's lots of rotary cannons.

I'm still waiting for a Tyranid rotary cannon to show up.

Tyranid guns are biologicals.

Whilst you can get rotors and such in a biological, there is no need for a rotary gun setup because the main reason that system is used on human guns is heat dispersal. Tyranid bioguns use muscular contractions or neuro-electrical stimuli to fire them, putting out much lower heat levels than chemical explosives.

Increasing RoF means more heat has to be dissipated, if the barrels didn't rotate to bring a cooler one into line, they would overheat too quickly and melt/cook off the ammo - which would be bad.

Perfect Organism wrote:
So, we've got the Punisher Cannon, the Kheres-pattern Assault Cannon and the Avenger Bolt Cannon.

They all look similar, they are all about the same size, they are all fielded by the same faction and they all have roughly the same battlefield role.

But they have totally different rules.

Does anyone else get bothered by this? Why couldn't they just use one set of rules, or two at most? I see absolutely no reason why the avenger needs a new gun when the kheres rules would fit it perfectly.

For lasguns, autocannons, missile launchers, flamers and so on one set of rules covers a huge variety of designs. Why change that tradition and make unique rules for three weapons which are pretty much the same thing?

I know it's a really silly thing to get worked up over, but ever since I noticed it, it's been bugging me.

Because they are not the same weapon and do not have the same battlefield role?

Punisher cannon - Anti hoard

Bolt cannon - Anti-Heavy Infantry

Assault Cannon - Somewhere in between.

Saying that they are the same is like saying a .45 Pistol is the same as a 9mm Pistol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:
Tyranid guns are biologicals.

Whilst you can get rotors and such in a biological, there is no need for a rotary gun setup because the main reason that system is used on human guns is heat dispersal. Tyranid bioguns use muscular contractions or neuro-electrical stimuli to fire them, putting out much lower heat levels than chemical explosives.

Increasing RoF means more heat has to be dissipated, if the barrels didn't rotate to bring a cooler one into line, they would overheat too quickly and melt/cook off the ammo - which would be bad.

Yeah, and how would they even rotate? Won't something...you know, tear?
The closest thing the tyranids seem to have to a rotary weapon are the devourerers.


I would imagine each hole fires separately.

Its entierly possable to have a biological rotary weapon. It would likely be constructed out of parts that arn't living, so bone and other structures that wouldn't require maintainance from the body.

Of course as mentioned the reason for rotating barrels wouldn't be present.

You're arguing logic against telepathic dinosaur space bugs that eat planets? Logic went out the window a long time ago. A rotary venom cannon would look badass, and that's all that matters.