Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well I run daemons, and i've always had trouble facing hordes. I have looked for answers and found little to none. Finally i'm starting to look at FW models and i found the Vulture Gunship as part of an allied IG detachment. I'm currently looking at the twin linked punisher cannons as an aid to my daemons. I figure that with daemons supple anti-armor (flamers and screamers), I thought that the vulture could be the thing that i was looking for. Problem is, it is a little pricy (i would only run this in an 1850 or 2k list), and i don't know how well it actually performs...

20 twin linked shots at s5 and bs4 coupled with being a flier and vector dancer sounds pretty damn appealing, but i don't know if it is worth its points. Anyone around here have experience with it and might also want to tell me another vulture loadout that might be more successful?

Any other comments, questions, or hints?

Let me know what you think,
Thisisnotpancho

Flamers of Tzeentch will answer hordes/vehicles better than most anything else in the game.

Go ahead I won't blame you for taking 27 of them 3x9

My conscience will though... Just feels cheesy as hell to run 27, as well as it makes the game not fun

thisisnotpancho wrote:
My conscience will though... Just feels cheesy as hell to run 27, as well as it makes the game not fun

Well 3x squads of 6 should still do the job and save your conscience. Besides you have screamers too, equally amazing at thinning out hordes with their flyover attacks.

True, but having to sit within 24" of the horde for one turn (whether i deep strike close or not) before doing damage seriously thins out the flamers. You either drop them within their some 18" kill range on the deep strike and they get shot up, or you keep them out of the range of the horde's guns and charging, then next turn jump them in, they get shot up, etc... Either way, they are going to get shot at for a turn without anything they can do to stop it. I've tried a lot of ways to counteract that (icons, using los blocking terrain, fateweaver escorting them giving them re-rollable saves, and so on), but i just can't find anything that will. Not sure if a lot of other people have this problem, but i certainly do

I have not played with it personally, but I have played against it a couple of times, although in 2 different variants. The first time it was packing 3 large blasts with str 4-5 and ap 5-6 (cant remember exactly) and the other time was with the 20 shots. Also, when I played against the 20 shot variant my opponent said they get +1 bs when shooting at ground targets (which gave him 20 bs5 twin linked shots!). Edit: (On second thought, maybe it just increased his BS from 3-4... again, I can't remember exactly, but I think that sounds more right )

I play Necrons, and both were a pita when fired at my poor warriors I imagine it would be even more devastating against Nids, Orks, or IG blobs.

Going back to the vulture. I used it back in 5th. It was a good model, but since it was just a fast skimmer it took a lot of heat and usually went down early.

Now with the new rules it has in 6th, that is no longer the case since it is a flyer. In addition to that it is going to pump out a ton of hits with it strafing run ability (i believe?). Honestly, I have yet to try it in a game of 6th, because I'll almost feel bad taking it against anything resembling a horde or MC army...but just looking at the new rules and knowing how it played before 6th, it's pretty much a no-brainer: the vulture is a great unit vs. hordes.

Out of curiosity what slot does it fill up?

Fast Attack iirc

Heavy Support. I field one every game, and it is pure butter.

The 20 shots are twin linked, BS4 against ground targets, and it has vector dancer. It chews apart infantry and AV10 alike. I adore the thing. I'd say its my killiest unit.

Glad to hear it. And btw i will be using it in a small 2k tourney where 2 Dark eldar players were at the top table last time i went. One happened to be my brother but oh well. I figure this would do well against them

As long as your tournament OK's forgeworld models, you should be set. Some do, some don't.
But it does sound like a good way to get your guard more involved than as placeholders while your demons flood the field.

Yeah, my brother used a nightwing interceptor when he won the tournament last time, which is a FW flier

Wow I can safely say this thing is absolutely nasty for it's price.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/downloads/product/pdf/i/IA1update28AUG.pdf

it's on pg 16 if anyone was like me.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Wow I can safely say this thing is absolutely nasty for it's price.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/downloads/product/pdf/i/IA1update28AUG.pdf

it's on pg 16 if anyone was like me.

FW FAQ gave it 3 HP, strafing run, and vector dancer, also.

 TheCaptain wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Wow I can safely say this thing is absolutely nasty for it's price.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/downloads/product/pdf/i/IA1update28AUG.pdf

it's on pg 16 if anyone was like me.

FW FAQ gave it 3 HP, strafing run, and vector dancer, also.

I almost wished we would allow FW stuff, than again I would never want to play against this. It's just gross.

I can safely assume this is one of the units that cause people to whine about FW so much

Funny though the OP found 27 flamers bothering his conscience but this thing is ok.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Wow I can safely say this thing is absolutely nasty for it's price.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/downloads/product/pdf/i/IA1update28AUG.pdf

it's on pg 16 if anyone was like me.

FW FAQ gave it 3 HP, strafing run, and vector dancer, also.

I almost wished we would allow FW stuff, than again I would never want to play against this. It's just gross.

I can safely assume this is one of the units that cause people to whine about FW so much

Funny though the OP found 27 flamers bothering his conscience but this thing is ok.

It's really not overpowered.

It's still str5, AP-

and 155 points.

Against hard targets, a Leman russ would be far better.

Against hordes, Burna Boys are better.

This thing's only big advantage is that it flies.

There are much grosser things...

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I can safely assume this is one of the units that cause people to whine about FW so much

Yeah, it's just terrifying, it's almost as good as a Vendetta. I can't imagine how allowing anyone to use it could possibly lead to a balanced game, so we'd better ban it and only allow codex units. Like the Vendetta.

 Peregrine wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I can safely assume this is one of the units that cause people to whine about FW so much

Yeah, it's just terrifying, it's almost as good as a Vendetta. I can't imagine how allowing anyone to use it could possibly lead to a balanced game, so we'd better ban it and only allow codex units. Like the Vendetta.

That's like comparing a flamer to a melta.

They fill two seperate rolls. Vendettas can kill troops poorly and the vulture can crack light armor.

It is terrifying tbh. It's cheaper than the Russ Variant IIRC and is exponentially better.

Back to the topic though...

Again, I think running the flamers of Tz will get better results. With the exception the flyer will be able to crack open Necron flyers.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
It is terrifying tbh. It's cheaper than the Russ Variant IIRC and is exponentially better.

So what? The Leman Russ variant is garbage, so that just means the Vulture is better than garbage. It doesn't mean that it's overpowered.

The Vulture is one of the units that FW priced significantly too low instead of too high. Vector Dancer really puts it over the top. That said, it isn't absurdly game-breaking like Sabre Defense Platforms or completely unfun like the Cæstus Assault Ram. I would expect to get some complaints, but if your area allows FW and other people haven't caught on and bought a bunch of Skyfire/Interceptor weapons, sure, go nuts.

That said, if other people in your area can keep up in the FW arms race, it, like almost all flyers, is pretty much worthless.

 Peregrine wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
It is terrifying tbh. It's cheaper than the Russ Variant IIRC and is exponentially better.

So what? The Leman Russ variant is garbage, so that just means the Vulture is better than garbage. It doesn't mean that it's overpowered.

I'm sorry I actually compared it to something relevant/similar.
Good to know your counter is "So what?"


Back to the OP again; trying to stay on topic.
My take on FW with the new allies matrix. You now have access to essentially the best units in the game. You're obviously allowing FW in your are, which is awesome. By all means use and abuse them all. A list I was working on earlier was running Vendettas, Vultures, allied with SM's with Vulkan and some podding Meltas/MM's. Not sure how good it would pan out in the end, but it looked downright obnoxious. I'm sure there are better infantry killers out there than the Vulture though, esp as a 1 of. Someone was discussing the FW manticore earlier 7" Str 9 blast ap2 IIRC (correct me if Im wrong)

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I'm sorry I actually compared it to something relevant/similar.
Good to know your counter is "So what?"

You're missing the point.

Comparing a unit to a weak unit is a "so what" comparison, because all it demonstrates is that the unit isn't the weakest option ever. There are many units that are better than some other unit without being overpowered, or even good in some cases. Therefore the comparison doesn't say anything of any value, just like it would be stupid to argue that melta guns shouldn't be allowed because they're better than grenade launchers.

If you want to demonstrate that a unit is overpowered you need to compare it to a powerful unit, ideally one that's already at the upper limit of "acceptable" power. Only then will you have a meaningful argument.

Why not compare it to a Valkyrie with missile pods and heavy bolters?

20 twin linked BS4 shots on a vector dancing flyer. Seems a whole lot better for a ~15 point increase.

I wonder how a Vulture would fair with 4 missile pods. 4 five inch blasts covers a lot of table. Might pan out better than 20 shots. Also wouldn't be useless after a weapon destroy.

-Matt

I've used it for years. Absolutely fantastic loadout that chews through any light infantry with ease. Perfect for taking out that camping unit of Gretchins-that-you-forgot-about-and-is-now-holding-the-objective. Don't forget that it also comes with a heavy bolter free of charge.

I will say that it struggles against MEQs, but there is normally something you can harass with it. Finally, make sure to keep it moving. When it used to be able to hover, that made it a sitting target. It has excellent speed and maneuverability, so use it to get the best results.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
Someone was discussing the FW manticore earlier 7" Str 9 blast ap2 IIRC (correct me if Im wrong)

It was I! (-:

That missile does have a 36" minimum range though, and no barrage. So it isn't great.

The vulture is expensive compared to the vendetta. Whilst the punisher variant is only 25 points more, it lacks the transport capacity that can be so useful. It does get strafing run though. One way to get vultures is using Armoured Battle Group as allies, for which you can have 0-1 gunship squadrons (vulture/vendetta) as a fast attack choice. Probably a better ally choice than codex Guard if all you want is some armour and air support.

Punisher cannons can be quite effective at glancing vehicles to death now, so they are not just for killing infantry.

The vulture is a fast attack choice for imperial guard.

The publisher cannons are bs4 with strafing run....so

17.77 hits. + 2 from the heavy bolter.

It will on average kill 4.39 marines or 11.54 guardsmen.



Vector dancer gives it an extra 90 degree turn at the end of its
move which means it can easily get tanks side armor. It also keeps it from having to fly off the board a lot.

Whenever people argue about relative merits of units, please bear in mind the folllowing:

Rule 1

The idea of the game is to be able to compare units objectively by kill ratio and points, etc. as Navras did above.

With a vulture gunship I will take the following load outs.

Light anti- armour , MC buster - twin linked autocannon , 6 Hunter killer missiles

Infantry ball buster - twin linked punisher cannons

Heavy anti armour - just get a vendetta , it's cheaper and outflanks

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Why not compare it to a Valkyrie with missile pods and heavy bolters?

20 twin linked BS4 shots on a vector dancing flyer. Seems a whole lot better for a ~15 point increase.

I wonder how a Vulture would fair with 4 missile pods. 4 five inch blasts covers a lot of table. Might pan out better than 20 shots. Also wouldn't be useless after a weapon destroy.

-Matt

The FW missile pod rules for imperial flyers are different to the Valkyrie codex pods, as far as I know. The Vulture gets 2x small blasts, rather than 1 large blast per pod. I had quite a lot of fun with a missile pod vulture. Even against low model count armies like marines you will rack up the hits with that many blasts