Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/01/26 00:21:51
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
for the Spyders: Yea it's tough to make them work. On one hand you want to keep them close to your vehicle so you can repair it, on the other hand you want to keep it close to the front so it can Deny the Witch/restore Scarabs. And like people mentioned before, it dies VERY quick to focus fire.
In fact, it's whole Scarab restoration ability isn't all that great. Scarabs are 9/10 times either
A: Min squads who sit on objectives.
B: A screening shield for your C'tan Shard, meaning they will be going too fast for your Spyder to keep up.
2018/01/26 00:32:37
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
The thing with Spyders is that they do multiple things without excelling in anything.
Should they create Scarabs? (Terrible)
Should they deny powers? (Ok I guess)
Should they repair? (Ok i guess, but then they hang back. So might be out of range for gloom prism, particle beamers and scarabs.
Should they be a weapons platform? (Not enough firepower)
Although it's interesting that it can be tailored to your needs. Repair spyder, anti psycher, Scarab repair, gun platform.
Giving them the character keyword (as mentioned by other posters) would be a really good solution. However I'm not sure if it would be enough since it's hard to find the points to include it currently.
Have anyone used them in 8th? If so, what was their role?
2018/01/26 00:33:39
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
1: while melee isn't that dangerous in 8th, there is some downright killy stuff sometimes. Genestealers, Boy mob, the upcoming Custodes etc.
However, all these units quite heavily rely on aura-buffing characters: the Brood Lord for the 'Stealers, Banner Nob for the Boyz etc etc.
So I was thinking.... why not drop Nemesor Zahndrekh among your gun line? His Counter Tactics, which disables all aura's from a selected enemy character within 12", could severely compromise the oncoming melee for your opponent.
The only problem is... it's at the START of your opponents turn. The enemy character will probably be out of 12" since he still has to move up and charge towards you. Hm....
and secondly:
If you guys had to Veil of Darkness a 20 man blob of Warriors, what would you rather take with them: A cryptek or an Overlord?
The Cryptek greatly enhances their survivability, but an Overlord with MWBD might make them lethal enough so that they won't be ignored...
So far I've been running 20-man blobs and, even when upgraded to BS2+ by Szeras, they simply aren't big enough of a threat unless they are in rapid-fire range.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cmdr_Sune wrote: The thing with Spyders is that they do multiple things without excelling in anything.
Should they create Scarabs? (Terrible)
Should they deny powers? (Ok I guess)
Should they repair? (Ok i guess, but then they hang back. So might be out of range for gloom prism, particle beamers and scarabs.
Should they be a weapons platform? (Not enough firepower)
Although it's interesting that it can be tailored to your needs. Repair spyder, anti psycher, Scarab repair, gun platform.
Giving them the character keyword (as mentioned by other posters) would be a really good solution. However I'm not sure if it would be enough since it's hard to find the points to include it currently.
Have anyone used them in 8th? If so, what was their role?
It's honestly, when you think about it, terrible and/or overpriced for any of those tasks:
-Creating Scarabs: as mentioned before, they are either a min-squad sitting on an objective, far away screening a C'tan or as a screen for your Warrior Blob against an oncoming dedicated melee unit.
Even íf your opponent plays a melee-heavy list, it is unlikely the Scarabs will be alive after one round of combat against such a unit.
-Deny the Witch: The most important powers are either buffs or teleportation powers, all casted well beyond your 24" deny bubble. Any close-range powers are either too difficult to stop (Magnus with his 2+ to casting rolls) or too insignificant to justify the Spyder's point cost.
-Repairing: While repairing D3 +1 (for Living Metal) sounds nice, is it worth a wooping 84 points?! Remember, that is ALL he is going to do. He will be too far away to deny and/or restore Scarabs if you put the Spyder on repair duty.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/01/26 00:48:51
2018/01/26 04:40:07
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I was at the panel. They announced DEldar, Tau, and Necrons in that order. That's not necessarily release order but worth noting.
I asked about Dynasties and they mentioned there was a "-1 Rend Dynasty", details of which still unclear. Would make Gauss pretty scary though, but still need point adjustments.
2018/01/26 05:26:54
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Requizen wrote: I was at the panel. They announced DEldar, Tau, and Necrons in that order. That's not necessarily release order but worth noting.
I asked about Dynasties and they mentioned there was a "-1 Rend Dynasty", details of which still unclear. Would make Gauss pretty scary though, but still need point adjustments.
Rend is the name for AP in AoS, I still catch myself using it, so might be a mistake, or at a guess it could be a reference to the new gauss mechanic, since rend was a on a roll of 6 it's extra AP.
So maybe they took the idea of on sixes you get an extra wound, and a specific dynasty does it on a 5 or 6.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/01/26 05:58:33
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Doctoralex wrote: I'd like to hear what you guys think of the upcoming Custodes codex and what we can do against them. Two of my friends at the local club said that they were gonna collect them.
While I wouldn't tailor my list against them, maybe it's good to have a look at what we have that might work against these boys in gold:
-Destroyers. While I'm normally not a big fan of the regular Destroyer, their weapons are ideal for taking down the regular Custodians. The T6 bikes on the other hand will require something a bit tougher. Also, anything higher than AP-2 is wasted against all their invuln saves.
-The Nightbringer, I'm not too sure. While he can absolutely shred multiple-wound infantry, his high AP is wasted against all those invuln saves. Not to mention that he will probably only last one turn in close combat against them.
Anti-matter Meteor is a nice source of Mortal Wounds though, who are precious against the Custodes and are not a psychic power, thus they won't get a 6+ FnP.
-Deathmarks. Again, Mortal Wounds will be our friend. Since the Custodes will no doubt be deep-striking in a lot of their units, the Deathmarks could take care of one of the standard-bearers. Be it the -1 to hit or the +1 attack one.
Although, with 3-4 wounds (don't know if the bearers get an extra one) and T5, it will be quite difficult for the Deathmarks to land a kill....
-Triach Stalker /w Particle Caster. An unsual gun choice for the Stalker, but the high S, low AP and D3 damage will make it ideal for taking down the Custodian Bikers. The reroll 1's to hit will also be a warm welcome, since you will be focusing firing on a squad.
-Tesla weapons: I'm not too sure about these ones. As I mentioned before, high AP weaponry is wasted against the Custodes. However, since they will no doubt blob up near the -1 to hit banner, Tesla can become useless as well.
-Warrior screen vs Scarabs: I also think we should use Warriors instead of Scarabs as a screen unit. All their weapons do multiple wounds, so that will be a lot of damage wasted on a regular Warrior. Throw in Szeras and give them +1 S (+1 T is wasted, since all of them will be at least S6 or higher) and they might actually take down a Custodian or two.
Orikan could work too, giving the Warriors a 5++ in close combat and eventually becoming pretty beefy in close-combat himself.
What do you guys think?
Destroyers and to a lesser extent Tomb Blades/Immortals with Gauss are how I would approach them. I hadn't focused on Necrons for a long time but a codex will get the creative juices flowing again at least.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/01/26 06:07:06
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
2018/01/26 07:29:24
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
The Cryptek looks weird when carried by that baby Spyder. At first I was thinking if the Spyder could be a new Wargear giving the Cryptek more movement, but if you look at the Crypteks feet, they seem to be in such an angle that he would lean backwards if put on a base. It might be that there are another leg option. I really hope so.
As for the staff he is carrying, it reminds a lot of Szeras staff and he has a Eldritch Lance (Assault 1, S8, AP-4, Dam D6). I would guess that there will be several staff options and...
... Harbringers are back... in town!
I would also guess that Crypteks are older and wiser than other Necrons since they have beards.
2018/01/26 08:29:52
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Harbinger of Despair: Also known as psychomancers, they are masters of influencing the organic mind and psychological warfare. With their Abyssal Staves they can spread madness among enemy ranks. They are also capable of causing dread in their enemies and of dematerialising and rematerialising their comrades.
Harbinger of Destruction: Also known as plasmancers, they are masters of raw energy and can shoot devastating blasts of furious energy and pulses of light that illuminate the entire battlefield from their Eldritch Lances in battle. Their gaze of flickering witch-fire falters the onset of even the bravest attacker.
Harbinger of Eternity: Also known as chronomancers, they are masters of time and knowledge of the future flows through their every act. They can rarely be trusted as they always have an idea of how any event will unfold. They wield Aeonstaves with sapphire heads, capable of trapping a enemy in a bubble of slow-time, a Chronometron capable of changing time, and the ability to crystallize time around themselves in a a way that blocks their enemies' blows.
Harbinger of Transmogrification: Practicing an art once known as alchemy, they specialize in the transmutation of matter from one form to another and to animate the inanimate. They use the Harp of Dissonance that can change Adamantium to brittle glass with a single booming bass note, the Seismic Crucible to induce seismic activity in rock, metal and air, and the Tremorstave causes quakes that knock enemies away.
Harbinger of The Storm: Also known as ethermancers, they are capable of manipulating the weather against their foes. The Voltaic Staff which shoots lightning, and the Ether Crystal summons pressures wave and bolts of lightning to buffet their enemies. They are also capable of calling upon emerald Lightning Fields to protect their allies.
2018/01/26 09:00:17
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Yeah, the Harbingers were one of the few things I liked in 5th ed.
Pity they dropped them in later editions.
I like the new cryptek, but the spider its floating on...idk, I don't think its necessary.
They had to release one just as I was converting one from a warrior too, lol.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 09:02:04
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/01/26 09:12:49
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
The Crypteck isn't being supported by the spider; instead the spider is clutching to the ground holding at bag the Cryptecks built in anti-gravity as he floats along behind supported by raw mag....phsy... technopower!
Also whilst its only one release this does at least mean that nearly every regular unit is now in plastic - which is fantastic - it leaves only hero units in finecast (and the flayed ones).
Thank fuq for a new Cryptek model. Hate Failcast and metal models with a passion. Looking forward to the new plastic model.
One new/redone model gives me hope that all our Failcast/metal models will be revamped. I would rather a whole line of Plastic then new modles tbh.
Also, anyone else notice that the Cryptek is connected to the small Spyder? Maybe it is a hint that Crypteks (or, certain Crypteks) can buff/help Canoptek units.
The hype is real, I imagine more info will be announced at the end of the LVO.
1: while melee isn't that dangerous in 8th, there is some downright killy stuff sometimes. Genestealers, Boy mob, the upcoming Custodes etc.
However, all these units quite heavily rely on aura-buffing characters: the Brood Lord for the 'Stealers, Banner Nob for the Boyz etc etc.
So I was thinking.... why not drop Nemesor Zahndrekh among your gun line? His Counter Tactics, which disables all aura's from a selected enemy character within 12", could severely compromise the oncoming melee for your opponent.
The only problem is... it's at the START of your opponents turn. The enemy character will probably be out of 12" since he still has to move up and charge towards you. Hm....
On the topic of genestealers:
They dont need the broodlord that much. They can mulch mostly everything they want, as long they can reach it in close combat.
Its a case of playstyle, depending on the tyranid player.
Most tyranid armies only include broodlords when the genestealers start on the board, or are jormungandr hive fleet because of the delivery system it provides.
Overall:
I dont think you will get assaulted too often from heavy supported GEQ or other stuff, which is not capable of handling their target in melee by themself. For example Bulgryns, berserkers, genestealers, or characters who are a pain all by themself are not that dependent from aura buffs, when assaulting most necron infantry.
And as you mentioned, its hard to get them in range for this trick before they slaughter through your ranks.
24.000 Tyranids painted, still rising in numbers
4.000 Genestealer Cult
7.000
2018/01/26 14:51:38
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Requizen wrote: I was at the panel. They announced DEldar, Tau, and Necrons in that order. That's not necessarily release order but worth noting.
I asked about Dynasties and they mentioned there was a "-1 Rend Dynasty", details of which still unclear. Would make Gauss pretty scary though, but still need point adjustments.
Rend is the name for AP in AoS, I still catch myself using it, so might be a mistake, or at a guess it could be a reference to the new gauss mechanic, since rend was a on a roll of 6 it's extra AP.
So maybe they took the idea of on sixes you get an extra wound, and a specific dynasty does it on a 5 or 6.
Nah pretty sure he said AP and I just have Sigmar on the mind.
2018/01/26 15:11:26
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Odrankt wrote: Thank fuq for a new Cryptek model. Hate Failcast and metal models with a passion. Looking forward to the new plastic model.
One new/redone model gives me hope that all our Failcast/metal models will be revamped. I would rather a whole line of Plastic then new modles tbh.
Also, anyone else notice that the Cryptek is connected to the small Spyder? Maybe it is a hint that Crypteks (or, certain Crypteks) can buff/help Canoptek units.
The hype is real, I imagine more info will be announced at the end of the LVO.
I think this may be a named character not the new Cryptek model specifically. It would make sense to have another one, given we have 4 named Overlords and only 2 named Crypteks. If they're giving Dynasty's subfaction specific traits then I reckon he belongs to one of the other Dynasties (not Sautekh or Nihilakh). Based on the model you can sort of assume two things; this Cryptek is fast, which is great, and that he has an affinity for Canoptek units. Joining the dots, seems like this guy could keep up with your Wraiths and give them RP rolls as well, that'd be awesome.
2018/01/26 16:34:16
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
The spyder could be his way of transporting a gloom prism, which might be an optional piece of wargear for him. The harbingers mean I'll just make sure I pick up a few of the model. I hope they make the lords and overlords cool enough to hang out with the crypteks.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/01/26 17:36:26
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
A dynasty with an additional -1 on AP would be great. I wonder if our dynasty traits only will affect infantry or all units similiar to Craftworlds. At first though -1 AP seems OP, but there might be some limitation similiar to Raven guards -1 to hit does not apply within 12". Perhaps the AP modifier will be within a certain range.
Tesla would be really nasty with ap-1 and a barges would be viable.
2018/01/26 18:26:43
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Odrankt wrote: Thank fuq for a new Cryptek model. Hate Failcast and metal models with a passion. Looking forward to the new plastic model.
One new/redone model gives me hope that all our Failcast/metal models will be revamped. I would rather a whole line of Plastic then new modles tbh.
Also, anyone else notice that the Cryptek is connected to the small Spyder? Maybe it is a hint that Crypteks (or, certain Crypteks) can buff/help Canoptek units.
The hype is real, I imagine more info will be announced at the end of the LVO.
I think this may be a named character not the new Cryptek model specifically. It would make sense to have another one, given we have 4 named Overlords and only 2 named Crypteks. If they're giving Dynasty's subfaction specific traits then I reckon he belongs to one of the other Dynasties (not Sautekh or Nihilakh). Based on the model you can sort of assume two things; this Cryptek is fast, which is great, and that he has an affinity for Canoptek units. Joining the dots, seems like this guy could keep up with your Wraiths and give them RP rolls as well, that'd be awesome.
If it is a new Named Cryptek then that's even better. Hopefully not Dynasty Specific though. Orikan and Toholk are good <dynasty> Crypteks but I think a Cryptek like Szeras would be a lot better as it would allow us to use him/her in any detachment without restriction. I am also totally gonna buy one and convert it (not use his Spyder) and use it as a Generic Cryptek. I will probably pick up 2 of them plus the Collector's codex when they are released. Just in case it is a Named Cryptek.
I am not sure about him giving RP rolls, we already got a stratgem to allow Canoptek Unit(s) the chance to RP once a turn for 2CPs. If anything, he might give a 5+ invul to Canoptek units it buff them like Szeras buffs Warriors and Immortals.
I personally want him/her to be an anti-pysker Cryptek. It would be cool if they had access to Necron Science that was Anti-Pysker just like the Gauss Pylons when activated on Cadia. Maybe something like "enemy pyskers within 24" have a -2 to their pysker powers". That kind of buff would almost be better then having the ability to deny them (or, team it with a GP Spyder and we are talking bussiness).
Based on the model this new cryptek looks like he might be able to fly and I hope that means a mobility bonus as well, because that will be great news for units like destroyers and praetorians.
To those that say there is no stupid questions I say, "Is this a stupid question?"
2018/01/26 19:45:27
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Honestly, folks, the prior case of trying to ‘inform’ the Codex writing team is clearly over.
Let’s not spoil what may be an amazing Codex with speculation that can only prove a source of disappointment when the eventual outcome is different (though not necessarily worse!).
Besides, we have two months at least before the Codex is table legal, and loads of events between now and then!
Has anyone figured out useful synergies at 2k to justify a Brigade?
2018/01/26 19:49:41
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I'm sure if we bitch and wishlist hard enough, they'll change the codex at the last minute.
The first batch of codices may have whiteout and entries written in crayon as a consequence
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
~1660
10000+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
