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I'm confused Ted...

Sigvatr wrote:

Lt. Coldfire wrote:
I thought all Tesla weapons were 24"?

They can be equipped with Gauss Weapons that have a range of 36''.

Well, No... they can have Gauss Cannons. Which we just have learned are 24". If they could have Heavy Gauss Cannons, it'd be true. I suppose this also hurts my plans for the A Barges too.

Anyone else think the Nightscythe has a lot more use than the A Barge? 10 points more, But Slotless (granted, you have a unit who can take it as dedicated transport), Fast, one less gun, but is also a transport.

Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.

Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?

I'm afraid it's true, the Gauss Cannon has a 24" range.

Other than the Doomsday Cannon which is 72" and the Tachyon Arrow which has an 'Infinite' range, the longest ranged weapon is indeed 24".

I hadn't noticed that before, but pretty strange for an army described as 'an Elite Shooty Army' by the guy who wrote the Codex.

The Decapitator wrote:I'm afraid it's true, the Gauss Cannon has a 24" range.

Other than the Doomsday Cannon which is 72" and the Tachyon Arrow which has an 'Infinite' range, the longest ranged weapon is indeed 24".

I hadn't noticed that before, but pretty strange for an army described as 'an Elite Shooty Army' by the guy who wrote the Codex.

Heavy Gauss Cannons are 36" though, eh?

Just pointing out that "elite shooty" =/= "long range"

Tau are *the* long range army.
Necrons shoot better.

Always been this way.

How is this supposed to be an elite shooty army with only 2 guns over 36", only 1 at 36"? The imperial guard are literally spitting coffee out of their noses laughing at our "elite shooty lists".

The Decapitator wrote:I'm afraid it's true, the Gauss Cannon has a 24" range.

Man, they really went hard and heavy with that Destroyer nerfing didn't they? The changes in stats I could get over, it's the restricting the number you can field to less than half of what it used to be that still leaves me bitter.

chipstar1 wrote:

Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.

Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?

A while ago. It seems the C'tan, and anything that's "Canoptek" do not get Reanimation protocols. This Includes Wraiths, Scarabs, and Spyders.


I'm a bit surprised on the Range reduction for the Gauss Cannon, it's still a pretty decent weapon though.

An Elite shooting army that's 24' is pretty unique.

How's the codex feeling overall, to those that are lucky to have one?


EDIT

Man, they really went hard and heavy with that Destroyer nerfing didn't they? The changes in stats I could get over, it's the restricting the number you can field to less than half of what it used to be that still leaves me bitter.

Destroyers are 1-5 now, in the codex, and you can swap up to 3 out for Heavy Destroyers. So no worries there Aduro!

Arandmoor wrote:Just pointing out that "elite shooty" =/= "long range"

Tau are *the* long range army.
Necrons shoot better.

Always been this way.

Tau? Seriously? Tau aren't in the top5 of shooty armies. They're outdated and uncompetitive. Necrons on the other hand aren't outdated anymore but still don't seem to be too competitive.

Arandmoor wrote:Just pointing out that "elite shooty" =/= "long range"

Tau are *the* long range army.
Necrons shoot better.

Always been this way.

I'd like to counter-point that you're wrong on both counts. Tau pale in comparison to most IG lists, and Necrons shoot no better than tau in their current form.

"elite shooty" means either they are small expensive units that are very shooty, or they are the premier shooty army. I see neither out of this codex. All shooting besides the barge/ark seems to be nerfed in at least range, and type of shot (so much rapid fire).

chipstar1 wrote:

Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.

Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?

About 4-5 pages ago, if you use the nifty little thread filter below my name you will bring up all my posts in this thread. I posted the info (along with other users) about 10 or so of my posts ago.

Wraiths, Scarabs and Spyders all now have the prefix 'Canotep' to their name marking out that they are not actually Necrons (which had previously been Necrontyr) but are in fact machines built by the Necrons to protect the Tomb Workda. Because of this they obviously deemed them not important enough to give them RP, probably thinking they can just build more if needed.

The Monolith can transport ANY friendly non-vehicle unit. So everything in the Codex which has a Toughness/Wounds value.

Cough Grey knights Cough

To be fair they needed the nerf a unit of 5 destroyers with 36" guns is pretty insane for 40 points each .

Sasori wrote:

chipstar1 wrote:

Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.

Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?

A while ago. It seems the C'tan, and anything that's "Canoptek" do not get Reanimation protocols. This Includes Wraiths, Scarabs, and Spyders.

Unless "a while ago" is in the last 24 hours, I have NOT seen that to be true. It's listed no where on the first page either.

Okay, so let's generalize:

Necrons are now an I2 army that basically can't shoot beyond 24"

Every army's different. I don't really see to much issue with a limited range of 24" I've never had a hard time getting to shoot what I wanted. Not to mention that we still have access to veils, monoliths, transports, jump troops. Also considering we have tons of ways to make the enemy have a terrible time returning fire or assaulting units with things like c'tan and crypteks.

Oh and a lot of people seem to be forgetting about the eldritch lance, harp and the tremorstave.

chipstar1 wrote:
Unless "a while ago" is in the last 24 hours, I have NOT seen that to be true. It's listed no where on the first page either.

Decap, thanks for pointing me. It was 9:30 this morning, which I guess is "a while ago" to some people. Either way, that is a pretty significant hit to wraiths.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I thought it was originally confirmed that scarabs got RP/WBB, as well...

chipstar1 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

chipstar1 wrote:

Sasori wrote:
Conrad, it was pointed out earlier in this thread, that they don't Get Reanimation protocols. Other than that, there is no rule saying what is, and is not a "Necron" So, those units can come through the Portal now.

Woah, when was it pointed out that wraiths don't get RP?

A while ago. It seems the C'tan, and anything that's "Canoptek" do not get Reanimation protocols. This Includes Wraiths, Scarabs, and Spyders.

Unless "a while ago" is in the last 24 hours, I have NOT seen that to be true. It's listed no where on the first page either.

It was first posted on Warseer a Day or two ago. Several other people (Such as the Decapitaor) that have their codex have confirmed this.

That seems to be the size of it... I'm baffled myself because one of the big advantages before was fast shooty flankers (destroyers) and an implacable moving horde that had vg saves and WBB.

Now... flankers that can't shoot for gak at range AND have one less shot, and warriors that have a worse save and possibly a worse WBB.

I don't understand what we are supposed to do - close to 24", which for one round will get shots off - then assaulted and wrecked?

Lt. Coldfire wrote:

The Decapitator wrote:I'm afraid it's true, the Gauss Cannon has a 24" range.

Other than the Doomsday Cannon which is 72", the Heavy Gauss Cannon which is 36" and the Tachyon Arrow which has an 'Infinite' range, the longest ranged weapon is indeed 24".

I hadn't noticed that before, but pretty strange for an army described as 'an Elite Shooty Army' by the guy who wrote the Codex.

Heavy Gauss Cannons are 36" though, eh?

Edit: My mistake, forgot about the Heavy Gauss Cannon. Thanks for the correction!

chunky_baby wrote:That seems to be the size of it... I'm baffled myself because one of the big advantages before was fast shooty flankers (destroyers) and an implacable moving horde that had vg saves and WBB.

Now... flankers that can't shoot for gak at range AND have one less shot, and warriors that have a worse save and possibly a worse WBB.

I don't understand what we are supposed to do - close to 24", which for one round will get shots off - then assaulted and wrecked?

Most infantry don't have a charge range of 24"...it's usually 18" (well for fleet and jump infantry, who are traditionally the necron's greatest threats), and even then you should be able to stay out of the way for a few turns.

aboytervigon wrote:To be fair they needed the nerf a unit of 5 destroyers with 36" guns is pretty insane for 40 points.

Agreed, 36" would be too much.

To those complaining about new Destroyers: in comparison to the previous codex, I don't think Destroyers have been nerfed at all. AP3 is a magic number. You can't expect to start treating power armor like a burlap sack without making a few concessions first.

So let me get this straight.

The "elite shooty army" has a true effective range of 24", similar to Grey Knights. The difference is, GK can fight back in close combat. We move up to 24" to shoot more than our pop-shot lascannon and expensive barge, we then get assaulted and GG.

Or we try to sit back and weaken a shooty army with our 3 possible 36"+ guns, get picked apart by Manticores during nightfight, and GG.

I'm really trying not to be overdramatic, but I see Necron's having the same insta-lose vs rock (of rock paper scissors) matches that dark eldar do.

chipstar1 wrote:
I'm really trying not to be overdramatic

You fail pretty hard at that...

Hmm...

This 24" Gauss Cannon range detail is ... unsettling

On the other hand, being able to teleport Destroyers through a Monolith (which likely just deep striked somewhere close to the enemy) is quite handy

Did the Tomb Stalker get no love? As far as I saw in my brief flip-through of the White Dwarf, it was not mentioned, and I don't think anyone in this thread has mentioned it being listed in the Codex...

Seems like it would be a shame, since the model is pretty awesome-looking, and actually not a terrible price (in a money cost-to-points cost ratio sense). I had thought about converting one just for fun also, but if it's kinda being left out in the cold, should I bother?

And as an afterthought, what about the Pylon? It's so old, I'm not sure if it would need entirely new rules or what. At least the Tomb Stalker was made recently enough that surely FW and whoever makes the rules for those models would have known the Newcrons were in the pipeline.

G. Whitenbeard wrote:Hmm...

This 24" Gauss Cannon range detail is ... unsettling

On the other hand, being able to teleport Destroyers through a Monolith (which likely just deep striked somewhere close to the enemy) is quite handy

Ah but as it's now an Assault weapon it now means move, shoot and then let your enemy move it's 18" toward you fail to make the assault then you shoot again and then assault them.

Win, win in my book, or I may just misunderstand the bonus here?

catharsix wrote:Did the Tomb Stalker get no love? As far as I saw in my brief flip-through of the White Dwarf, it was not mentioned, and I don't think anyone in this thread has mentioned it being listed in the Codex...

Seems like it would be a shame, since the model is pretty awesome-looking, and actually not a terrible price (in a money cost-to-points cost ratio sense). I had thought about converting one just for fun also, but if it's kinda being left out in the cold, should I bother?

And as an afterthought, what about the Pylon? It's so old, I'm not sure if it would need entirely new rules or what. At least the Tomb Stalker was made recently enough that surely FW and whoever makes the rules for those models would have known the Newcrons were in the pipeline.

Sadly, the Tomb Stalker is not in the Codex. I was hoping it would be, but it's not. On the Brightside, we got some new shiny toys in the Heavy Support slot.

If the sales go well, Perhaps the New crons will get some more FW love.

aboytervigon wrote:Cough Grey knights Cough

To be fair they needed the nerf a unit of 5 destroyers with 36" guns is pretty insane for 40 points.

Well, they're mobile but everything in this game is meched up so there's not much benefit from that AP3. When I see walking Marines they're stuff like BA Devastators in an FNP bubble with cover saves, and Destroyers can't do s**t against them (200 points of Destroyers kill 1,38 Marines per turn). In return though I've no doubt most lists are very happy to blast at those Destroyer units and drop entire units in a phase so they don't even get to reanimate. Stuff like PBS squads are a nightmare as well since the IG just need to kill a guy and then autobreak them.

We'll need to see some complete tournament lists made out of the Necron book before passing judgment but it doesn't look too good. So much stuff in the Necron book has rock hard counters to them and unfortunately many of these counters are wildly popular.

I don't understand what we are supposed to do - close to 24", which for one round will get shots off - then assaulted and wrecked?

That seems to be it. All the imperial lists mech up to avoid getting tabled in two turns by DE poison weapon spam (and SW Long Fangs are often in trouble and require all kinds of Razorback screens to survive) but for the Necrons that doesn't seem to be a viable option. Dark Eldar look like a tough matchup for any type of Necron list. IG lists on the other hand outshoot and outrange the Necrons so bad (+ PBS squad shenanigans) that I really doubt there's any way to cram in enough guns or tricks to the Necron army to deal with ~15 AV12 chassis in 1750 points. Grey Knights, Space Wolves and Blood Angels on the other hand all have so tough tournament builds that Necrons wont compete. They can make lists that outshoot the Necrons and counter-charge anything that comes to 24" and blows right through them. For example a standard SW shooty list with Razorback squads and 3 Long Fang squads lead by a TWC lord/squad or two who are just hanging back waiting for enemy survivors to straggle through. They both outshoot and outfight their robot opponents. Likewise, I played my Grey Knights with 6 Chimera henchmen squads, 3 Razorbacked Purifier units and 3 Psyflemen Dreads and just shot stuff to bits and finished the stragglers with the Purifiers and HQ units in close combat. Of course I played the same style with BA, doing a meched up shooty list with FNP Devastators, and kept Mephiston hanging back and hiding between transports for counter charge. He can be supported with FNP and a some furious charging meched up AM against chaff units like poisoning Gaunts. Necrons will just lose combat and with their poor initiative and no fearless/atsknf get the whole unit wiped out after every combat. Again the reanimation protocol does nothing.

Needless to say, I can't see Necrons competing since they aren't particularly good in anything and are outright horrible in other things. Of course being competitive has different meanings to different players. To me a competitive army can win a no composition scoring GT with no more luck than your opponents and not requiring your opponents to be complete donks every game.

Why is it that everyone keeps saying that they are going to get charged if they are 24" away from the enemy.

Here's hot it will go:

Normal infantry = 6" move
run D6"
6" charge
Kill zone = 12"

Fleet Infantry = 6"
Fleet D6"
6" charge
Kill zone = 18"

Jump infantry = 12"
Run/fleet =D6
6" charge
Kill zone 18"/24" (very, very rare)

Beasts more or less the same as JI

Bikes = 12" move
Turbo boost = 24"
Kill zone = 18"
If they TB they might catch you...if they survive for a turn

So with destroyers you should be able to just kite the enemy most of the time.
Remember that they can move and shoot their guns.