Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Please, I've (we've) been dealing with the 24" range cap on 90% of our guns previously, I think I can deal with it now with much better guns at our disposal.

Stop making a big deal out of this 24" range thing. It's really not as bad as you think it is.

Heavy gauss cannons, the Eldrich lance, and tachyon arrows can cover long range, but with the night fight shenanigans that necrons can dish out, we should be able to get into that 24 inch range and do some serious damage.

Stormlord aside, 2 solar pulses can really set your opponents shooting back, while assault armies have to come to you.

There seems to be conflicting information about the Causs Cannon range. Thisis from the first page summary:

Annihilation Barge: Described as anti-infantry support platforms. Variant of the Catacomb Command Barge. One per FOC slot taken. Open-topped, non-fast skimmer, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. Has a twin-linked Tesla Destructor & a Tesla Cannon, but can upgrade the cannon to a Gauss Cannon. Not exactly sure why you'd want to do that except for the extra range (36" for the Gauss Cannon as opposed to all Tesla weapons which are 24" range). 90 points, confirmed in WD 382.

The tomb stalker is a nice model, and awesome combat monster, it is not a part of the codex as such but is kept in imperial armour which can still be used in most friendly games. As it is designed to be used in normal games as well as in apocalypse, about the pylon, they might give it a minor change eventually but I think that any player can just take the old wordings into the new codex, and be glad that it still has an awesome str d anti aircraft

Edit: I can say for sure that I double checked it as I saw it yesterday... About the gauss cannon range, what is on the front page is outdated

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Why is it that everyone keeps saying that they are going to get charged if they are 24" away from the enemy.

Here's hot it will go:

Normal infantry = 6" move
run D6"
6" charge
Kill zone = 12"

Fleet Infantry = 6"
Fleet D6"
6" charge
Kill zone = 18"

Jump infantry = 12"
Run/fleet =D6
6" charge
Kill zone 18"/24" (very, very rare)

Beasts more or less the same as JI

Bikes = 12" move
Turbo boost = 24"
Kill zone = 18"
If they TB they might catch you...if they survive for a turn

So with destroyers you should be able to just kite the enemy most of the time.
Remember that they can move and shoot their guns.

That's what I tried to put in my post above, but you elaborated it more.

Kudos to you Sir

ojve wrote:There seems to be conflicting information about the Causs Cannon range. Thisis from the first page summary:

Annihilation Barge: Described as anti-infantry support platforms. Variant of the Catacomb Command Barge. One per FOC slot taken. Open-topped, non-fast skimmer, AV11, Quantum Shielding, Living Metal. Has a twin-linked Tesla Destructor & a Tesla Cannon, but can upgrade the cannon to a Gauss Cannon. Not exactly sure why you'd want to do that except for the extra range (36" for the Gauss Cannon as opposed to all Tesla weapons which are 24" range). 90 points, confirmed in WD 382.

The new information is coming from people that have the Codex. The first page summary is from a playtest version. There have been some significant changes since then, but most of the first pages information is still accurate.

24" range assault weapons on jump infantry is plenty of range and maneuverability to avoid being charged.

This is a non-change.

Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.

Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.

Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.

Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.

This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".

24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".

Has anyone noticed that on the GW website, heavy destroyers are 20p cheaper than regular destroyers, yet you get more in the box?

Destroyers are £12.50 and Heavy Destroyers are £15 - Check again woodbok!

£12.30 Heavy and 12.50 Normal

chipstar1 wrote:Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.

Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.

Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.

Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.

This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".

24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".

I hate to say this but Demon Princes don't have fleet nor do Tyranids have a 24" charge threat, aside a Tervigon poopin out gaunts. But then again...it's gaunts.

Destroyers are £12.50 and Heavy Destroyers are £15 - Check again woodbok!

LOL they just changed it heavies were £12.30 uptil a few hours ago

Kurgash wrote:

chipstar1 wrote:Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.

Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.

Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.

Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.

This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".

24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".

I hate to say this but Demon Princes don't have fleet nor do Tyranids have a 24" charge threat, unless gargoyles have it but still, it's gargoyles....

TWC have fleet? Really?
And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".

And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".

New to the game right? You add the size of the base to the 2" since only the edge of the base has to be within 2".

chipstar1 wrote:Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.

Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.

Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.

Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.

This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".

24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".

I agree with this... it's not so much the fact that 1 turn will even get you assaulted as I agree that few units will be able to do it - it's more that in order to "shoot" effectively you have to be able to do so for more than 1 turn.

Even moving into range and then somehow backpedaling (which I used to do ALL the time before with Necrons) you are still going to be assaulted by most of the army in the next turn.

I don't think MW meant "Elite shooty army for ONE turn".

Or maybe he did... who knows lol.

Either way - I'll work on tactics around it, but it's disappointing. He seems to have meddled with units that were ok before, and made them worse while throwing in "bells and whistles" that are mainly gimmicks.

Dark Eldar have a 26.99" assault threat radius. 12" Raider, 2.99" deployment, 6" Fleet, 6" assault. Roll a 1 for combat drugs and its going to be worse.

Not All Dark Eldar units have fleet, and of those that do, the only concern would be Wyches. And if they don't roll well enough on their fleet roll (which is far more likely) Then they are going to be shot to death.

Thunderwolf Calvary have a 24" assault threat radius. 6" move, 6" Fleet, 12" assault.

While the total threat range is 24' you are really counting on rolling a 6 on these fleet rolls a lot. In addition, this is only one unit in the codex.

Winged Demon Princes/Bugs have a 24" assault threat radius. 12" Move, 6" Fleet, 6" Assault.

None of the Jump Infantry in the Tyranid Codex have fleet. I imagine it's the same with Winged Daemon princes.

Grey Knights have a 24" shooting range threat radius. They are designed to kill things that come into their threat bubble.

You can say the same thing about the Necrons.

This doesn't go into how even the slow marines will roll up 12", get out, and then rapid-fire you to death at 24".

Easier said than done.

24" is a magical number that is an enormous game changer. It's like psiflemen becoming S8. The difference between S8 and S7 is enormous. So is the difference between 24" and 36".

It is a Tough Number, but we'll have to see how it plays out on the Tabletop. Sometimes things that look Bad/Good on Paper, preform a lot better together as an Army.

Therion wrote:

And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".

New to the game right? You add the size of the base to the 2" since only the edge of the base has to be within 2".

I rarely play with transports, so no I didn't know that.

But really? Huh.

Therion wrote:

And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".

New to the game right? You add the size of the base to the 2" since only the edge of the base has to be within 2".

It's an open topped vehicle, I thought you measured 2' from the Hull with those.

Sasori wrote:

Therion wrote:

And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".

New to the game right? You add the size of the base to the 2" since only the edge of the base has to be within 2".

It's an open topped vehicle, I thought you measured 2' from the Hull with those.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Therion wrote:

And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".

New to the game right? You add the size of the base to the 2" since only the edge of the base has to be within 2".

I think you're getting this mixed up with the sport of Curling.

Sasori wrote:

Therion wrote:

And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".

New to the game right? You add the size of the base to the 2" since only the edge of the base has to be within 2".

It's an open topped vehicle, I thought you measured 2' from the Hull with those.

I've no idea what you're talking about. When the edge of a model's base is within 2" of a vehicle, the model is within 2" and legally placed. Now when the infantry guy starts moving you measure from the other side of the base and since the base is 1" wide you gain that 1". That's why chip said they disembark 2.99".

In response to people:

You're right about the demon prince. Give it lash though, which has a .... range.

All beasts have fleet, per the rulebook. That includes TWC.

When deploying from a transport, only the edge of your base needs to be in the 2" deployment zone. Since a base is 1", deployment zone is 2", your effective deployment range is ideally 2.999".

What is "easier said than done" when it comes to a unit moving 12" in a rhino/razorback/chimera/land raider, pivoting, deploying models 2.999", and rapidfiring S4 weapons? There is no random d6 roll, no guessing range. Transports 101 IMHO.

Sasori, I agree that we need to see things on the table. I'm obviously being a sensationalist here, but my gut tells me that I'm correct, and xenos will continue to be second tier behind SW, IG, BA, GK. The Emperor protects.

Therion wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Therion wrote:

And it should be 2" deployment for the DE, not 3".

New to the game right? You add the size of the base to the 2" since only the edge of the base has to be within 2".

It's an open topped vehicle, I thought you measured 2' from the Hull with those.

I've no idea what you're talking about. When the edge of a model's base is within 2" of a vehicle, the model is within 2" and legally placed. Now when the infantry guy starts moving you measure from the other side of the base and since the base is 1" wide you gain that 1". That's why chip said they disembark 2.99".

Ok, I get what you are saying now. I was thinking "Vehicle Base" When you said Base.

Personal attacks are against DakkaDakka Rule Number One. Please avoid making them in the future or you account will be suspended. Thanks! ~Manchu

Therion:

The mental proficiency deficient like yourself posting ridiculous unsubstantiated nonsense like this are why many people are sacred away from playing the game.


People said silly crap like that when the DE book was coming and then Dash proceeded to become one of the top generals in the world with that same book.

I love how some moron whose never played a single game with the codex thinks they know more then the team of play testers who have been working on the thing for years.

I actually just created a handle on a site that I've been trolling for awhile now just to point out the silliness in your though processes. You have awakened me from my tomb world and I'm displeased yet amused.

So your amazingly awesome pwnzer gwnzer GK's and live and dia at 24" but the poor Necrons are going to get Beech Pwned because they have no CC abilities? Yeah that silly little Lord with his retinue of power weapon wielding 4+ reflection shield bearing guys, no worries. And that giant shard of a God with 7 strength and toughness...easy sauce.

You've won a few games with cookie cuter lists you copied off the Internet created by people much smarter then you? Grats buddy, are they still making medals for such accomplishments?

I'm seeing a lot of generalizations the page couple pages about how things were nerfed and the world is on fire....

Let me just say that you should wait till you have the codex in your hands. There are so many little tricks to mess up the enemy movement and shooting.
Necrons aren't going to be the easiest army to play, but should be very fun and some what competitive. Worried about people charging you? Take some tremor staves! 36" S4 small blast that if it hits at all makes them move through cover next turn and that cryptek will only run you 40 points. So many little things like that that will mess up the awesome 24" charge bubble.. I mean heck we have a character that can move 12" in the movement phase over a vehicle and do 3 S7 2D6 pen attacks on the rear, during the shooting phase take over another vehicle and fire all it's weapons then in the assault phase charge another vehicle for 4 S8 2D6 pen attacks.

I don't think it will be that bad with the range. In regards to taking out things like Long Fangs/Devastors or other small heavy weapon squads you can easily do that with Wraiths or the new Destroyers.. Same goes for using the Destroyers to pop transports with the Heavy Cannons, or even using the normal ones to glance the crap out of any other vechicle. If someone does manage to get close enough you can use Wraiths/Lychguard/Praetorians for a count assault unit or put them in the way. When it comes to Eldar, they may be faster, but they have lower strength. Wyches would hit a necron unit on a 4+ and need to roll a 5+ to wound, they may have 20+ attacks.

For example. 10 Wyches(going with no upgrades right now) on the charge would be 30 attacks.

Against 10 Immortals they would get 15 hits and 5 wounds on average and end up killing 1.667 models before Reanimation rolls. With a Lord with rez orb they would not even manage to kill 1 Immortal.
The 10 Immortals would then hit back at WS4 S4 and would hit 5 out of 10 times, with 3.3 wounds caused and the Wyches lose 1.667 models. Without a chance to get back up. Obviously this could go different ways depending on Wych loadout and drug rolls. With a lesser lord in there chances are the Wyches might actually be the ones to lose the combat, especially with wound allocating to a Lord with a 2+/3++/4+++.

I think the biggest unit to worry about in melee from Dark Eldar are Incubi seeing as they have S4 Power weapons and a higher WS than Wyches/Bloodbrides, but beyond that I think Necrons would be fine in resisting the CC department.

Marines would be a different story, especially with Grey Knights though and I could definitly see Necrons having far more trouble against them than any other CC based army. And that is mostly due to them all having power weapons and +S psychic powers which Necrons do not have much defense against enless you are Spyder Spamming.

chipstar1 wrote:The Emperor protects.

Him and a few select games designers After you've finished designing a codex and have completed playtesting it, you run it through one of two templates. Imperial (buffed across the board) or Xenos (nerfed in random ways that make no sense) and then it's shipped to the public.

Pete Haines made a monster of a non-imperium book (the old Chaos with Siren Princes, daemonbombs and IW). I think he was either fired or ran out of town later

You've won a few games with cookie cuter lists you copied off the Internet created by people much smarter then you? Grats buddy, are they still making medals for such accomplishments?

I've won much more than that and stayed undefeated for years while being active on the tournament circuit. Good thing you created a new handle just to flame me anonymously without even knowing who you're talking to. Naturally you don't care. You're a random Necron player who beats his little brother and some fat kid from his 'local shop' with his junk lists and seemingly got incredibly offended when someone who actually knows what kinds of lists win major tournaments said he doesn't approve of the Necrons? I said previously that the Necrons might be competitive and fun enough for people who play against normal lists and don't need to play against cut-throat armies and players. If you like the new Necrons, I'm happy for you, but if you think you have what it takes to beat the best with them I suggest you go out there and prove it instead of making new handles to rage with.

It's funny that it's allowed for people to circle jerk to rumours and post about their wild plans to take over the tournament world, but it's not allowed to try to bring people down to earth. The usual angry reply is 'how can you make such statements when the codex is not even out' with a few insults added on top. Seriously, the skill cap and depth in this game is so low that it's not exactly hard to see if an army will be highly competitive or not if you've won a GT or three.

G. Whitenbeard wrote:Hmm...

This 24" Gauss Cannon range detail is ... unsettling

On the other hand, being able to teleport Destroyers through a Monolith (which likely just deep striked somewhere close to the enemy) is quite handy

The Monolith doesn't have any protection from DS Mishaps, so good luck to you and your attempts to DS is anywhere near your opponents.

For weeks now I've been following this thread, looking for even just one or two things in the new codex that I would be impressed with. And honestly, with everything even remotely interesting I've read about, there seem to be far too many caveats. Every single time a common threat is discussed, it seems to take 2 or more Necron units to deal with it. So unless Necrons are allowed to field double the points that their opponents are able to, I'm seeing almost no competitiveness in this codex. Any given singular threat requires an entire army build to counter it, and any given clever combination or idea with Necrons seems to have a "...but it won't work it that way " attached to it.

Basically, this codex is starting to feel like it's all based around the meta-analysis of the Nightbringer: it's appealing on the surface to people that don't play much, but underneath that veneer is something that nobody will ever use competitively.

Or maybe I just need coffee to shake of this pessimism.

ShadarLogoth wrote:Therion:

The mental proficiency deficient like yourself posting ridiculous unsubstantiated nonsense like this are why many people are sacred away from playing the game.


People said silly crap like that when the DE book was coming and then Dash proceeded to become one of the top generals in the world with that same book.

I love how some moron whose never played a single game with the codex thinks they know more then the team of play testers who have been working on the thing for years.

I actually just created a handle on a site that I've been trolling for awhile now just to point out the silliness in your though processes. You have awakened me from my tomb world and I'm displeased yet amused.

So your amazingly awesome pwnzer gwnzer GK's and live and dia at 24" but the poor Necrons are going to get Beech Pwned because they have no CC abilities? Yeah that silly little Lord with his retinue of power weapon wielding 4+ reflection shield bearing guys, no worries. And that giant shard of a God with 7 strength and toughness...easy sauce.

You've won a few games with cookie cuter lists you copied off the Internet created by people much smarter then you? Grats buddy, are they still making medals for such accomplishments?

Thanks for this....
.......................



....