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 motyak wrote:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-owd__UepaOI/U0BKK3BdDjI/AAAAAAAAJcY/lkylpxjV_0s/s1600/unnamed+(5).jpg

That's the tank orders right? Can someone please help me with a translation?

http://natfka.blogspot.com.au/2014/04/astra-militarum-preview-tank-commanders.html

 motyak wrote:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-owd__UepaOI/U0BKK3BdDjI/AAAAAAAAJcY/lkylpxjV_0s/s1600/unnamed+(5).jpg

That's the tank orders right? Can someone please help me with a translation?

The first gives 6+D6 move in flat out instead of shooting

The second allows the tank commander to fire at a different target from his squadron

The third allows the entire squadron to fire and pop smoke

Cheers

 Lobukia wrote:
Calling it now... Wyvern will be auto include in 1 month. The thing is a beast. Really no jk. Put me on record as having said it. I think it will top whirlwinds and TFcannons for sure.

Yeah, I think it'll be some of the new hotness.

Edit: Priests also look outstanding. Has there been any word about Primaris Psykers? If they can be fielded like priests as rumored and get divination access like the battle squads are rumored to have, we might see a flood of cheap prescience bots in IG/AM armies.

At this time it appears as though GW wants players fielding more regular infantry, and the way they're encouraging that is through access to many good buffs (warlord traits, priests, divination?, etc.).

 shasolenzabi wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
Every dex has been getting a big monster or machine. A new toy if you will. Where is the IG love in that regard? A new flyer and/or big tank would of been nice.

Nah, GW gave the Hydra/Wyvern and the oh so unloveable weak armored taurox, chimera is still a better ride

really????

people are complaining that they WOULD get a big monster kit in guard...

so I guess it only makes sense that people complain about the exact opposite too....

jesus people, almost every codex will be updated and have new content within a few years of the edition being released...

this is awesome...


So far after going through all the codex that is available, it is most certainly a good buff, guard ground forces can litterally drown the other guys in cheap heavy weapons fire from multiple sources, and have great capping units.

I'm not new to the board, and I know how to use the "little triangle".

Just saying, the front page hasn't been updated or people are lazy because they keep asking for pics of the orders and stuff that you have to dig 170+ pages to find because folks want to expound 5 pages worth of gak.

And I've seen them close threads for less.

Back on topic - I am also liking the commisar/priests blobs.

Hit ebay and grab all those grummy cultists you can for cheap, large blobs/tarpits. Stretch 2 or 3 of those along the board edge with Inq servo skulls.

Add in the counter attacking units (rough riders, bullgryns) or other allied units and should be fun.

Guess GW had a plan all along ...

Vendetta's still have squadrons, right?

If so, that right there beats even the SR formation. Bringing two or three of them on at once just erases an enemy flyer of choice off the board. They're even scary to a THawk. I see them priced right. You pay a small tax for being able to take 9 of them.

If they lost squads, then yeah, StormRaven is better.

 Lobukia wrote:
Vendetta's still have squadrons, right?

If so, that right there beats even the SR formation. Bringing two or three of them on at once just erases an enemy flyer of choice off the board. They're even scary to a THawk. I see them priced right. You pay a small tax for being able to take 9 of them.

If they lost squads, then yeah, StormRaven is better.

Yeah, once the Codex comes out if I'm not completely uninspired to update my Guard army, I think I'll run 2 Vendettas in a squadron magnetised to swap to Valkyries if I want and then grab a couple of Vultures just because lots of firepower in a Vector Dancing, Strafing Running, Deep Striking flyer is awesome.

Anytime a new book releases that completely invalidates previous play styles (See 'Nids), it's a bad release.

So folks are saying that the new rumblings of armies would be massed cheap bodies and spammed cheaper heavy tanks. Well, sales and revenues have been down...

The "new hotness" doesn't seem that new (hydra) or that hot (Taurox, Wyvern). And they've gutted some players armies for no good reason, just like Nids.

So what we're seeing isn't growth of an army with new strategies, but the loss of previous strategies and push towards mono builds, like bugs. IG should be like Space Marines, varied, and get different "tactics" or "order sets" based upon what system they hail from. Just like CSM, just like Nids. But they are actively giving us LESS options for $50 and then selling datadumps to patch holes. But I wouldn't want to rely on formations as they seem hit and miss on where they are accepted (casual or competitive games).

We'll all withhold judgement until the book comes out, but I'd like folks to name other games that routinely delete units and cripple existing strategies with each releases versus building up more/new options. Not a single new named IC, but one special character moved to HQ to change it up. There was no reason to delete others to "make way" for that.

This Codex also shows the wave of the GW future based on the chapter House ruling.
Rather than make a quick upgrade sprue for the Bassie (and just call the kit an "Ordnance Tank") thereby providing the Codex with all the models required to satisfy the Court ruling...GW just dropped the entire line (leaving it as a FW kit easier to defend in court). Interesting that Rough-Riders were left in...a new kit forthcoming in a future wave???
Saw the same thing with Bugs (Doom and all). No kit available? Delete the unit.
So...who's going to start scouring their favorite Codex for those awesome/cool units that just happen to not have an official model?

dkellyj wrote:
This Codex also shows the wave of the GW future based on the chapter House ruling.
Rather than make a quick upgrade sprue for the Bassie (and just call the kit an "Ordnance Tank") thereby providing the Codex with all the models required to satisfy the Court ruling...GW just dropped the entire line (leaving it as a FW kit easier to defend in court). Interesting that Rough-Riders were left in...a new kit forthcoming in a future wave???
Saw the same thing with Bugs (Doom and all). No kit available? Delete the unit.
So...who's going to start scouring their favorite Codex for those awesome/cool units that just happen to not have an official model?

You're assuming GW will actually try and update whole armies, and we all know even on this frantic release schedule they have now that ain't happening.

I would more expect them to just come out and say "Sisters, Templar, Stormtroopers, etc." have gone the way of the squats.

But here are the new "Adeptus Senoritas, Adeptus Carry'a Crossicus, and Militarium Weather Balloonicus" - oh wait. They already did Tempusticus'ouses.

<sarcasm>

I am hoping to receive the Stormtrooper codex I preordered to have delivered a week late tomorrow.

I'm working on magnetizing the flyers I have now and hope to use each variant with Stormtoopers/Vets and see how things have changed. Can a Pask Punisher knock out a knight?

Darn excited about guard and the change ups!

I have a dkok force (I run as reg guard, err Astra Militarum), and many of my minis would become unusable unless I was creative and opened my mind, and used them as "proxies!"

Luckily my gaming group is also agreeable!

Assumptions made about Pask Punisher: BS4, S5, Rending

20 Shots * BS4 = 13.3 Hits

13.3 Hits = 2.22 Rends (4 w/ Tank Hunter)

Rends are S11 + d3; Rends = 1.48 HP (2.66 w/ Tank Hunter) assuming front facing since it's as wide as a barge.

So if the shields are up in that direction, you're doing 0.74 HPs a turn with a Pask Punisher (1.33 w/ Tank Hunter). Prescience helps marginally.

 gorgon wrote:
At this time it appears as though GW wants players fielding more regular infantry, and the way they're encouraging that is through access to many good buffs (warlord traits, priests, divination?, etc.).

But they're simultaneously crippling vets (our only unit that can move up from behind the ADL), removing both special characters for platoon-based armies (both of which enabled powerful and interesting infantry-based strategies), nerfing Chimeras and Vendettas (mandatory for anything that wants to move up from behind the ADL), failing to improve weak infantry units (rough riders, ratlings, etc) and adding more tanks (including HQ tanks). The IG infantry army now consists of a blob of guardsmen camping behind an ADL, never moving, and hoping nothing decides to come kill them. Meanwhile all the real work is done by the 9999999999 tanks. This is hardly a good move in favor of interesting infantry-based lists.

Of course it could be that GW's intent is to make infantry more important, and they're just too lazy and/or incompetent to do it right, which would fit neatly into the pattern of GW's other decisions lately.

 Peregrine wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
At this time it appears as though GW wants players fielding more regular infantry, and the way they're encouraging that is through access to many good buffs (warlord traits, priests, divination?, etc.).

But they're simultaneously crippling vets (our only unit that can move up from behind the ADL), removing both special characters for platoon-based armies (both of which enabled powerful and interesting infantry-based strategies), nerfing Chimeras and Vendettas (mandatory for anything that wants to move up from behind the ADL), failing to improve weak infantry units (rough riders, ratlings, etc) and adding more tanks (including HQ tanks). The IG infantry army now consists of a blob of guardsmen camping behind an ADL, never moving, and hoping nothing decides to come kill them. Meanwhile all the real work is done by the 9999999999 tanks. This is hardly a good move in favor of interesting infantry-based lists.

Of course it could be that GW's intent is to make infantry more important, and they're just too lazy and/or incompetent to do it right, which would fit neatly into the pattern of GW's other decisions lately.

This also seems to fit the "Blanding" of army squads so that all will be similar in build, just different in looks I made my vets a certain way, now they want them to go sgt and 4 guys with 1 special weapon, add 5 more to get a 2nd weapon, that was how stormtroopers were as well as Kasrkin, Vets had a special flavor to them as they were. Now, what difference between the units? repetition and made all so bland differences will be armor and such so SM with Power armor/Kasrkin, (if they still are around) Carapace/Tempestus scions carapace/vets only with oir w/o carapace or take them cheap with flak? Even the alien armies are getting this 5base men approach and blanding flavorless approach.

Why must all armies be cookie cutter stamps of the others, why not make us play with different colored parchesee stands? seriously, all armies are only different due to fluff now, but mechanics wise are becoming very much copies of each other, some weaker, some stronger. I will have to decide once I see the book if it is worth it to play using the new latin like army, or stick with the last IG codex for flavor of the army

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Darn excited about guard and the change ups!

I have a dkok force (I run as reg guard, err Astra Militarum), and many of my minis would become unusable unless I was creative and opened my mind, and used them as "proxies!"

Luckily my gaming group is also agreeable!

Nice!

I will try to paint up my Inq Stormtroopers in different colors so I can tell my opponent "these are vets, these are scions" and hope he gets confused (maybe not)...

That's right, GW. You make 1000 guys with the same pose - that's what I run.

 Peregrine wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
At this time it appears as though GW wants players fielding more regular infantry, and the way they're encouraging that is through access to many good buffs (warlord traits, priests, divination?, etc.).

But they're simultaneously crippling vets (our only unit that can move up from behind the ADL), removing both special characters for platoon-based armies (both of which enabled powerful and interesting infantry-based strategies), nerfing Chimeras and Vendettas (mandatory for anything that wants to move up from behind the ADL), failing to improve weak infantry units (rough riders, ratlings, etc) and adding more tanks (including HQ tanks). The IG infantry army now consists of a blob of guardsmen camping behind an ADL, never moving, and hoping nothing decides to come kill them. Meanwhile all the real work is done by the 9999999999 tanks. This is hardly a good move in favor of interesting infantry-based lists.

Of course it could be that GW's intent is to make infantry more important, and they're just too lazy and/or incompetent to do it right, which would fit neatly into the pattern of GW's other decisions lately.

That's why you need to buy allies! Gw can't be bothered to write decent books because of the crutch that are allies.

I'm shocked they haven't added a way for players to directly just purchase special rules for your units. This way they send you a dataslate with say...ogryn with stubborn and fleet for 5.99. Another player can customize his ogryn by buying sniper and out flank for 5.99 instead. This would make it so gw doesn't need to do any work, they can simply further indoctrinate their players into paying to make their units better.

My question is with Hq tanks should they be taken as the Warlord? In my exp when I took one for my warlord in the ABG is was targeted first and systematic destoryed.

Zengu wrote:
My question is with Hq tanks should they be taken as the Warlord? In my exp when I took one for my warlord in the ABG is was targeted first and systematic destoryed.

I think it goes without saying that all of the HQs in the Guard codex are pretty easy to systematically hunt down and destroy. We have no 2+ 3++ eternal warrior warlords that can take some termies with them and tank every wound on the planet. The LR commander might be a bit of a big target, but unless you hide a Lord Commissar in a 50 man blob it's never too hard to kill a CCS or something similar if you make a point to do it. I'm a bit rusty on my squadron rules, but if the shots have to be allocated to the closest tank you can always attach another LR to the HQ to give him some protection.

 Kirasu wrote:


I'm shocked they haven't added a way for players to directly just purchase special rules for your units. This way they send you a dataslate with say...ogryn with stubborn and fleet for 5.99. Another player can customize his ogryn by buying sniper and out flank for 5.99 instead. This would make it so gw doesn't need to do any work, they can simply further indoctrinate their players into paying to make their units better.

Don't give them ideas....

Isn't that what data-slates do .

 Kirasu wrote:
[...] Another player can customize his ogryn by buying sniper and out flank [...]

Equally hilarious and useless. Imagine a big ol' Ogryn with a fancy sniper rifle coming off a flank attack trying to hit dudes in front of him via his hilariously over-sized scope and magazine - for $14.99 in a dataslate.

On topic, this release sure will be something, that's for sure. The current rumors and leaked rules are causing quite the stir. Our FLGS is hosting an Imperial Guard vs Everyone Else tournament(esque) event next month. Figure that's enough time to learn some new tricks.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Isn't that what data-slates do .

Pretty much, the formations are just out of FOC units with special rules you didn't have to pay for.

 rabidguineapig wrote:

Zengu wrote:
My question is with Hq tanks should they be taken as the Warlord? In my exp when I took one for my warlord in the ABG is was targeted first and systematic destoryed.

I think it goes without saying that all of the HQs in the Guard codex are pretty easy to systematically hunt down and destroy. We have no 2+ 3++ eternal warrior warlords that can take some termies with them and tank every wound on the planet. The LR commander might be a bit of a big target, but unless you hide a Lord Commissar in a 50 man blob it's never too hard to kill a CCS or something similar if you make a point to do it. I'm a bit rusty on my squadron rules, but if the shots have to be allocated to the closest tank you can always attach another LR to the HQ to give him some protection.

That could work but right now my ccs is useless I stick this in a vendetta have them fly around the whole game and pray it does not get shoot down/..... . My biggest fear is being deep striked and a ton of wrap spriders and other bades light the warlords back armour up. Kind of wish there could be maybe a 4+ or 5+ save just on the back armour. It could be too broken though Idk.

 Kirasu wrote:

That's why you need to buy allies! Gw can't be bothered to write decent books because of the crutch that are allies.

I'm shocked they haven't added a way for players to directly just purchase special rules for your units. This way they send you a dataslate with say...ogryn with stubborn and fleet for 5.99. Another player can customize his ogryn by buying sniper and out flank for 5.99 instead. This would make it so gw doesn't need to do any work, they can simply further indoctrinate their players into paying to make their units better.

And never forget, when someone actually wants to play with an a unit that's more powerful or a better combination than someone else's, blame that player, not the writer of the rules, for being unfun. Its the player that's violating the spirit of the rules, not the writer's complete inability to do his job of creating fun rules for both players.

I've been thinking about new Veterans. It's pretty obvious that mechanized vets have gotten worse with the Chimera price increase and the reduction of special weapons. That being said, I think foot vets are either a wash or have come out ahead.

In the 5th edition Guard codex, 6 plasma guns would be 2 squads of veterans. That's 230 total points, with 2 Sergeants and 12 lasgunners along for the ride. Now, I never saw these fielded all that much because of defensive issues. They were often too easy to kill for how many points they were and the damage they caused, but they weren't a straight up bad unit.

The same 6 plasma guns in the 6th edition codex costs 270 points. 230 + 40 points is a 17% increase, but it comes with other stuff, too. You get an extra Sergeant, and 9 more lasgunners, along with 10 extra wounds. You get a third unit, which is scoring, and you get an extra heavy weapons slot if you decide to go that route. While they're 17% more expensive for the firepower, they have 24% more models for the points, so they gained more durability than they lost in power. Bonus firepower is the possibility that a Sargeant could trade his useless lp/ccw for bolter. Furthermore, with three units, they cannot be destroyed as easily as two units.

This isn't including doctrines. With the inclusion of doctrines, the new Vets are even more favored. Two plasma squads of Old Vets with Carapace would be 300 points. Three squads of New Vets with Carapace would be 315. Not much of a price increase, equal plasma firepower, more almost twice the lasgun firepower, and 50% more bodies. 315 points isn't even that much, but it's three scoring units that can move in the mid-field together, deliver pretty rough close-range firepower, and weather small-arms fire pretty well for their points cost.

I don't know if this would end up being something useful in the greater context of Guard lists, but I think it could be. 105 points for a scoring unit with useful firepower that takes a little effort to kill is worth something.

 Peregrine wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
At this time it appears as though GW wants players fielding more regular infantry, and the way they're encouraging that is through access to many good buffs (warlord traits, priests, divination?, etc.).

But they're simultaneously crippling vets (our only unit that can move up from behind the ADL), removing both special characters for platoon-based armies (both of which enabled powerful and interesting infantry-based strategies), nerfing Chimeras and Vendettas (mandatory for anything that wants to move up from behind the ADL), failing to improve weak infantry units (rough riders, ratlings, etc) and adding more tanks (including HQ tanks). The IG infantry army now consists of a blob of guardsmen camping behind an ADL, never moving, and hoping nothing decides to come kill them. Meanwhile all the real work is done by the 9999999999 tanks. This is hardly a good move in favor of interesting infantry-based lists.

Of course it could be that GW's intent is to make infantry more important, and they're just too lazy and/or incompetent to do it right, which would fit neatly into the pattern of GW's other decisions lately.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your points about Infantry based lists. I have been a pure Infantry guard player for many years now and have rarely used veterans in my lists, as they are only any good when in a transport.

Now you are right about foot lists being heavily effected by having their special characters taken away, but I think that the same tactics can be used just a different way.
Outflanking platoons are still viable as we have not heard of anything saying that Creed no longer allows one unit to outflank.
And the changes to conscripts points, combined with the points being saved by not paying for send in the next wave and Chenkov means that whilst you can not get infinite men, you can field a lot more conscripts to start off with. Also nothing is stopping a foot general from putting some of his conscripts in reserve and bringing them on as a "next wave" if they are worried about a crowed DZ.

In fact I would argue in favour of this codex being better to for foot guard as the ability to put cheap priest and commisars in conscripts and giving them massive buffs is a huge boost to that unit. add to this the order to "move shoot and run" and those foot slogging conscipts have the potential to move up field quickly! Combine this with the rumours of HWS being only 45 points to start (coming with 3x morters) and we getting some serious fire power.

What I think will become the standard for pure infantry lists will be large mobs of stubborn conscripts moving and shooting and running upfield (to threaten the enemies deployment zone and clog up the middle of the board to stop the enemy advance) with by Platoon squads with AC and GL sitting on objectives and proving fire support and all of this supported by large amounts of HWS armed with Rockets for AA and lacannons for AT. Senior officers will be at the back issuing bring it down and junior officors will be at the fron issuing FRFSRFing and Fire and advance orders.

However, I do not claim to know everything about foot guard so if you disagree with me feel free to comment back and I look forward to discussing it further with you!

Biophysical wrote:
The same 6 plasma guns in the 6th edition codex costs 270 points.

Except it doesn't just cost 270 points, because you're ignoring the cost of the transport. The current codex is 340 points for two plasma vet squads in Chimeras, the new codex is 465 points, a 36% increase. And that's if you're using Chimeras. Valkyries make it even more expensive, and of course Vendettas aren't an option at all anymore.

Biophysical wrote:
Vet Stuff

Good way to think about it. I still don't like making previous play styles invalid (read, people with modelled up Vet squads in Chimeras) that is an interesting way to go about it.

The concept of getting them a 4+ save, or more bodies AND a 4+ armor save is something to think about. However, a lot of the game's current "better" things are usually S6-7, Ap4. Thus the extra points may be a waste. Time will tell on that one.

I like the concepts of foot lists, but I tend to like them elite. Pushing the game towards body spam bogs it down and just looks seedy in practice. It looks cool and fits the fluff, so tough call there. It's just sad that IG seems to be doing swarmy better than 'Nids. You can get 50 bodies with buried fearless for 175... Nids can get 30 guants for 140~ish and fearless must come from another source or cost 100+ pts to be buried in the unit.

For what it's worth GW's weird translation team decided to not translate 90% of the units names (they're in english).
This team had a trend of not translating the vehicles, which could be argued for (marines vehicles for example never were translated, but all other races' were) but now even infantry squads aren't translated anymore, which just looks stupide with the french fluff text right under it.
Sigh


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, were the relics revealed? I've had a glance at them