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im2randomghgh wrote:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

JamesMclaren123 wrote:I think people are forgetting that Tanks beat the trenches so why would DKOK succeed against anyone who is also not in trenches

And I think people are also forgetting that in WW1 tanks were very new and the infantry had almost nothing with which to counter them, hence why there were so successful. They were also a terrifying new weapon, a steel box that ground on without remorse, crawling across the land with impunity.
The DKoK have access to a wide range of anti-tank equipment, from lascannons to meltaguns and their own tanks; LRBT, Malcadors, Macharius & others. They also have support from the Imperial Navy with their Marauder Bombers & Destroyers, Thunderbolt Heavy Fighters, Lightning Fighters, Vultures - they will be a lot more use against tanks than their WW1 counter-parts would have been.

In short, if an armoured force attempted to assault straight at a fortified DKoK position, there is a good chance it would be annihilated, because the DKoK have the kit to face tanks whereas WW1 troops didn't.

it was not just the troops inability to kill the tank (artilery could do that though) it was the increase in manuverability that killed off the trenches.

in WWII the british and french troops (who had the kit to kill tanks) tried to fight the germans with trenches like in wwI and were annialated by the germans and the blitzkrieg tactics.
the thing is from your trenches you can do one of two things: sit and defend or full frontal assult and in 40K full frontal assults will be destroyed by a knowlegable commander unless the forces are overwelming in which case there wasn't much to be done anyway. my point is that there is a reason nobody uses trenches anymore, just like nobody uses bows and nobody uses dreadnought class battleships

There are all kinda of way to kill a tank with a trench. Dig it wider, throw in anti-tank mines etc.

Plus, if dead men walking is anything to go by, the DKoK have a higher-than average proportion of melta guns.

my point was that trenches are not used anymore because they can be easyly beaten. say for argument sake the DKOK have a trench line all that happens is you teleport your chaos terminators in the support trenches make a hole the tanks roll through DKOK fethed. use drop ship to drop men onto the artilery. bomb the feth out of them with AIRCRAFT the probles with trenches is that they are to static. say you lanch an offencive over a Km of land and say you take that Km in a matter of hours you could have a hundred tanks 100 Km behind the trenchsecure a lanfing zone and by the time the DKOK have amounted a fore to deal with this you could have a ton more stuff, and even if they manage to kill the ton of stuff that troops who are not on the front

blitzkrieg worked for a reason

They won through manoever, on open battlefields defense>mobility.

The only blitzkrieg to be destroy was the one that attacked the defenses at Kursk.

Trenches are harder to beat than armour.

the reason that the germans lost at kursk was because the russians had more tanks and the germans had no supplies as hitler was a dick and didn't listen to his generals

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AtoMaki wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Trenches are harder to beat than armour.

Like the Maginot Line versus the Blitzkrieg? Iraqi trenches versus Coalition assault in the first Gulf War?

That battle was sealed from the start.

And either way, I am not sure how we're debating because trenches are a force multiplier for infantry, and do not involve tanks or preclude the infantry force from owning said tanks.

And self-propelled artillery vehicles are better than tanks.

Between Steel Legion and Death Korps it's really about what you think is badass. If you think cruising along in a Chimera/ getting blown up in a Chimera, blasting Orks with a multilaser then disembarking and getting chopped to bits/ lasering a few more Orks then Steel Legion are badass. If fearlessly charging across no-mans-land/ getting blown to pieces by artillery or machine guns, jumping into an enemy trench and stabbing enemies/ getting stabbed by enemies is more badass in your opinion, then it's all about DKoK.

im2randomghgh wrote:

AtoMaki wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Trenches are harder to beat than armour.

Like the Maginot Line versus the Blitzkrieg? Iraqi trenches versus Coalition assault in the first Gulf War?

That battle was sealed from the start.

Yeah, modern technology and HUEG air support showed us that.

steel legion, just love the minatures

On the relevance of trench warfare: 40k is sci-fi so can use it's futuristic setting to create any battlefield situation, even a retro one like trench warfare. On Vraks for example, the enemy's air and orbital defense was absolute so artillery and infantry assaults were the only option.

Doesn't stop them using Chimmy's.

Don't need 'em. They got Gorgons

definitely Elysians, theres nothing cooler than fighting space pirates on huge space stations in an asteroid field.

Of course it's the Kriegernauts. They're WW1 Germans IN SPESSSSSS!

Mar'tacus wrote:Of course it's the Kriegernauts. They're WW1 Germans IN SPESSSSSS!

Aren't they WW1 French?

Death Korps of Krieg. A whole army of hard-ass soldiers, who care from nothing expect the slaughtering of their enemy. They make even Catachans seem like babies...

AtoMaki wrote:

Mar'tacus wrote:Of course it's the Kriegernauts. They're WW1 Germans IN SPESSSSSS!

Aren't they WW1 French?

And Belgian.

Their uniforms are inspired by all three nations troops from the period.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

AtoMaki wrote:

Mar'tacus wrote:Of course it's the Kriegernauts. They're WW1 Germans IN SPESSSSSS!

Aren't they WW1 French?

And Belgian.

Their uniforms are inspired by all three nations troops from the period.

Nah, it's all in the helmets. They wear the Stalhelm (sp?).

Also, from their entry in Warhammer 40k Wiki:
"As with every Imperial Guard Regiment, the Death Korps are based on a real world army from human history, and are similar in uniform and style to the Imperial German Army of World War I and the Wehrmacht of World War II. "

The most badass by definition of the word would be the Catachans.

Mar'tacus wrote:Nah, it's all in the helmets. They wear the Stalhelm (sp?).

Also, from their entry in Warhammer 40k Wiki:
"As with every Imperial Guard Regiment, the Death Korps are based on a real world army from human history, and are similar in uniform and style to the Imperial German Army of World War I and the Wehrmacht of World War II. "

The helm is based off of the German infantrymans stahlhelm, the flute that tops it is from the French helm, the greatcoat is based on the French greatcoat, puttee's from all three armies, location of the gasmasks bag based off of all three armies. There is nothing to do with the Wehrmacht of WW2 in their uniforms. There are hints from the Belgian uniforms amidst their attire, such as the double-brested buttoning of their coats. The colouring of the uniforms tends to follow the darker blues worn by the French/Belgian armies, rather than the lighter grey of the German army.

It's like the Mordian Iron Guard - they're based off of European infantry circa c1850-1900 rather than just Prussian infantrymen, as might be assumed from their peaked caps. When Games Workshop make an army, they're generally inspired by differing armies from the same period. To say the DKoK is purely made up of German uniforms is a fallacy because they use differing parts of uniforms from three different armies. The British army does not appear to have been part of their inspiration, although the ANZACs appear to be the inspiration for the Bushmen of Serica and no guesses who inspired the Elite Gharkas (both regiments depicted in 3rd Ed. Guard Codex).

Don't trust wiki's, they're often wrong. I believe Forgeworld themselves even said the uniforms were inspired by French, Belgian and German uniforms.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

Mar'tacus wrote:Nah, it's all in the helmets. They wear the Stalhelm (sp?).

Also, from their entry in Warhammer 40k Wiki:
"As with every Imperial Guard Regiment, the Death Korps are based on a real world army from human history, and are similar in uniform and style to the Imperial German Army of World War I and the Wehrmacht of World War II. "

The helm is based off of the German infantrymans stahlhelm, the flute that tops it is from the French helm, the greatcoat is based on the French greatcoat, puttee's from all three armies, location of the gasmasks bag based off of all three armies. There is nothing to do with the Wehrmacht of WW2 in their uniforms. There are hints from the Belgian uniforms amidst their attire, such as the double-brested buttoning of their coats. The colouring of the uniforms tends to follow the darker blues worn by the French/Belgian armies, rather than the lighter grey of the German army.

It's like the Mordian Iron Guard - they're based off of European infantry circa c1850-1900 rather than just Prussian infantrymen, as might be assumed from their peaked caps. When Games Workshop make an army, they're generally inspired by differing armies from the same period. To say the DKoK is purely made up of German uniforms is a fallacy because they use differing parts of uniforms from three different armies. The British army does not appear to have been part of their inspiration, although the ANZACs appear to be the inspiration for the Bushmen of Serica and no guesses who inspired the Elite Gharkas (both regiments depicted in 3rd Ed. Guard Codex).

Don't trust wiki's, they're often wrong. I believe Forgeworld themselves even said the uniforms were inspired by French, Belgian and German uniforms.

Small addition, but what about the legs windings?
I believe they are British, but I'm not entirely sure.
In the link are the DKOK engineers, if you look at the legs, they remind me of
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-ENGINEERS.html

loner wrote:
Small addition, but what about the legs windings?
I believe they are British, but I'm not entirely sure.
In the link are the DKOK engineers, if you look at the legs, they remind me of
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-ENGINEERS.html

I know that we Americans used that sort of uniform design during this period.. Looking at photographs amongst family collections, it looks as though the US Army gave our doughboys Wingtip dress shoes, told them to wrap their ankles and go to war.. Also, the only real difference I can tell from our WW1 uni's is that the biggest difference between a "dress" uniform, and a "battle" uniform, was which one ya put yer medals on.

Not wholly sure, if I'm honest. Whilst British forces certainly wore puttee's, I'm not sure if there are instances of French, Belgian or German forces uses them during the time period or not. I haven't found anything during my searches to show that they did wear them, so perhaps it is a British accent thrown into the mix.

Feel I should also add in that the DKoK way of identifying different units, a coloured patch in their collar, comes from the Belgian army, apparently.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

Mar'tacus wrote:Nah, it's all in the helmets. They wear the Stalhelm (sp?).

Also, from their entry in Warhammer 40k Wiki:
"As with every Imperial Guard Regiment, the Death Korps are based on a real world army from human history, and are similar in uniform and style to the Imperial German Army of World War I and the Wehrmacht of World War II. "

The helm is based off of the German infantrymans stahlhelm, the flute that tops it is from the French helm, the greatcoat is based on the French greatcoat, puttee's from all three armies, location of the gasmasks bag based off of all three armies. There is nothing to do with the Wehrmacht of WW2 in their uniforms. There are hints from the Belgian uniforms amidst their attire, such as the double-brested buttoning of their coats. The colouring of the uniforms tends to follow the darker blues worn by the French/Belgian armies, rather than the lighter grey of the German army.

It's like the Mordian Iron Guard - they're based off of European infantry circa c1850-1900 rather than just Prussian infantrymen, as might be assumed from their peaked caps. When Games Workshop make an army, they're generally inspired by differing armies from the same period. To say the DKoK is purely made up of German uniforms is a fallacy because they use differing parts of uniforms from three different armies. The British army does not appear to have been part of their inspiration, although the ANZACs appear to be the inspiration for the Bushmen of Serica and no guesses who inspired the Elite Gharkas (both regiments depicted in 3rd Ed. Guard Codex).

Don't trust wiki's, they're often wrong. I believe Forgeworld themselves even said the uniforms were inspired by French, Belgian and German uniforms.

Sweet Jesus, that's an analysis!

The helmet, being the focal point of the uniform, made me think German, as does the Death's Head face mask in some of the DKoK art.

And maybe the fact they're called the Death Korps of Krieg.

Oh yeah! And that.

Yes, those are relevant points. Plus, when speaking to people about Krieg in the past, they've said that the gasmasks & greatcoats made them think of German troops. So it's understandable why people think they're mostly inspired by German troops, but I don't like the French & Belgian inspirations to slip past unnoticed.

As for the analysis? It's just a general one. I'm sure someone with a better knowledge of WW1 uniforms could do a better analysis down to the very last buttonhole on the models.

(Oh, by the way, the Grenadier/Engineer carapace armour is based off of a German trench armour design. As for the officer/CCS/Death Rider breastplates, as far as I know they're a generic design of cuirass, appearing much like those worn by the Household Cavalry of the British Monarchy.)

Sparks_Havelock wrote:
(Oh, by the way, the Grenadier/Engineer carapace armour is based off of a German trench armour design. As for the officer/CCS/Death Rider breastplates, as far as I know they're a generic design of cuirass, appearing much like those worn by the Household Cavalry of the British Monarchy.)

Now you're just showing off, lol.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Don't need 'em. They got Gorgons

But they aren't nearly as widespread as the Chimmy's in the Steel Legion. And I'm sure that if the Steel Legion were ever made into Forge World (not that I'm saying they will be), then they'd get loads of big smashy toys (toys that they will already have fluff wise but not in an actual model range).

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Don't need 'em. They got Gorgons

You mean those big, open-topped things with an army inside, I can't possibly see how that could go wrong...
Unless the enemy has melta-guns, las-cannons, melta-bombs, or pretty much any explosives, you are in the clear

Yes, good thing chimeras are invincible to those.

Except Chimeras carry a squad instead of a whole platoon and there are more of them (relative MSU's). It's a case of eggs in a basket.