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You'll know that tyranids are properly implementing ork DNA when they start looting things
And if they do EARTH IS DOOMED

tru

They do loot..., they loot your DNA.

das tru too

Also, I thought I should point out - the 'producing biovores from Orks, Zoanthropes from Eldar, Tyrant Guard from Space Marines' was written out of the fluff by Robin Cruddace. it's been retconned so they had all of these things ever since Hive Fleet Behemoth, including the Swarmlord, Trygons, Mawlocs and Raveners being present on Macragge.

So the whole 'the Tyranids haven't done anything useful with Ork DNA' isn't really valid anymore. In the new fluff, they aren't using DNA from species in this galaxy to make creatures with their best traits, since they always had these creatures in their swarm - they just think for themselves what they want to make with their biomass. They just use the species they consume to make more of it. So they didn't make a 'bad choice' making the Biovore out of Orks, they just eat Orks and make more of whatever they want.

Their ability to create new creatures on the fly is described in a fluff story with Hive Fleet Naga, which creates an immense, Trygon like creature, but about the size of a Reaver titan, that effortlessly munches an entire Titan Legion by itself.

Yeah I saw that. gobsmacked a bit by gw when they do this
Love how GW comes in and says 'this bit of fluff is irrelevant now' seems like a dick move to anyone who's been reading a lot!

Yeah.... kind of annoying

Because, if they didn't, someone would make a thread about how the fluff doesn't make sense since trygons, biovores and zoanthropes showed up on Macragge.

Mr Nobody wrote:Because, if they didn't, someone would make a thread about how the fluff doesn't make sense since trygons, biovores and zoanthropes showed up on Macragge.

I'd bet somewhere on some forum, someone did it anyways...

Tyranids have always been in a state of retcon. Every edition they decide a new way to take them. And really, since most Nid beasts have been around since Hive War for Epic, I'd say they've been around since Behemoth. Tyranids do keep losing stuff though.

From Flamespurt guns for Gargoyles to losing all of their bio tanks (Exocrines, Malefactors, Haruspexes, etc). Seems GW can't quite decide on a way to take Tyranids that they are happy with, fluff wise. They should have just left Phil Kelly in charge of them - he seemed to be taking them in the direction the playerbase liked.

Necrons. Why?
Shuddup thats wot!

Though for real, Nids and Necrons and maybe orkzez. A necron kills a nid with a gauss gun>is put into its original elements>nothing left biomass wise>if there is anything left most likely to hard or take to long for nids to do utilise it
vs. Orks? same thing would happen including the spores gettign wupped

Interesting point, but are there enough necrons to defeat both the nids and the orks simultaneously?

cRaZy_MaChEtE_mAn wrote:Necrons. Why?
Shuddup thats wot!

Though for real, Nids and Necrons and maybe orkzez. A necron kills a nid with a gauss gun>is put into its original elements>nothing left biomass wise>if there is anything left most likely to hard or take to long for nids to do utilise it
vs. Orks? same thing would happen including the spores gettign wupped

That's a lot of flaying though, and while the technology may be a sound means of winning in theory, in practice it's a lot harder. If it really were as simple as "flay them until there's none left" then the Necrons (and C'tan) would have cleansed the galaxy of organic life 65 million years ago. It didn't play out like that though - the war raged for a non-disclosed period of time with no end in sight, because the Orks (and others) didn't just stand there in an orderly line waiting to be Gaussed. They fought back. Hard.

My .02 cents on this.


Necrons - As I believe someone mentioned, particularly weak to psykers, and there is no shortage of them in any army/society.

Imperium - quite frankly, I think they would last for a long while, but wouldn't win. Orks and Tyrannids outnumber them easily, and they reproduce at a drastically lower rate than either of them. Put up a good fight, but eventually they'll be thinned too much.

Eldar - Yes, they are relatively few in number, but I feel like people are forgetting the fun little fact that since they put there souls in spirit stones, they can fight even after they die to protect the Craftworld. Underestimated by most armies, which gives them help, especially when they are also backed up by the Exodites, they'll last longer than people give them credit. However, their numbers are few enough that eventually they'll be wiped out.


Tau - First empire knocked out imo. They already have major struggles against just the Tyranids by themselves. Having the entire universe in a no-holds-barred fight? They
just don't have enough strength to last beyond the other races.

Dark Eldar - I'm not sure where to place DE. They're numbers are fairly large compared to the Eldar, and they have the added benefit that they live and move through the webway, which is notoriously hard for other races to find. Even with the new fluff from the new codex, the only reason Commoragh was attacked was by Vect opening all the webway portals for the Imperium to come in. That safety coupled with their hit-and-run tactics would help them go far. Plus, they are one of the few races that seem relatively unconcerned about the Tyranid threat, looking at them as nothing more than a biological weapon.

Orks - One of the last standing. They live and breathe war, get better from fighting, and breed faster than bunnies.

Tyranids - It really depends on who is left at the end of the war. If its races such as Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Eldar, they're done. If its, say, Orks, the Imperium, and Tau, then Tyranids win easily.

Xyptc wrote:

cRaZy_MaChEtE_mAn wrote:Necrons. Why?
Shuddup thats wot!

Though for real, Nids and Necrons and maybe orkzez. A necron kills a nid with a gauss gun>is put into its original elements>nothing left biomass wise>if there is anything left most likely to hard or take to long for nids to do utilise it
vs. Orks? same thing would happen including the spores gettign wupped

That's a lot of flaying though, and while the technology may be a sound means of winning in theory, in practice it's a lot harder. If it really were as simple as "flay them until there's none left" then the Necrons (and C'tan) would have cleansed the galaxy of organic life 65 million years ago. It didn't play out like that though - the war raged for a non-disclosed period of time with no end in sight, because the Orks (and others) didn't just stand there in an orderly line waiting to be Gaussed. They fought back. Hard.

Except that Necrons didn't want to cleanse galaxy of life,the galaxy was ti become a giant slave society.
Necrons would have won if the Enslavers didn't appear.

vishra wrote:Tyranids - It really depends on who is left at the end of the war. If its races such as Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Eldar, they're done. If its, say, Orks, the Imperium, and Tau, then Tyranids win easily.

Why? Tyranids make use of metal. They bring it to their digestion pools, break it down to its core minerals, and use it. So Necrons can still be eaten. Eldar? I don't see why they'd be trouble for Tyranids. They've already eaten a few Craftworlds (Iyanden was nearly destroyed by Kraken, and Malan'tai was annihilated by a single variant Zoanthrope). Dark Eldar, well, there's simply not enough of them to be a threat to the Tyranids.

You're also assuming that Tyranids get their biomass from the races they fight against. Not so. The vast bulk of their biomass comes from eating planets. There's far more digestible biomass on the planets surface than just the inhabitants.

I don't see how this is even a question. Necrons have already proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that they will outlast any and all races. Tyranid is a close second. VERY close second.

All the other races are either on their way down, or are not "long lived" enough in the sense of their culture and species to even hope to compete with these two. You'd probably have random orks popping up too because its pretty much impossible to get rid of them....I mean they are a galactic fungal infection.

The reasons for these statements are very simple. All the other races are either in massive decline and will go into extinction even if the status quo continutes, or they are restricted to a single galaxy which by definition the Necron and 'nids are not....orks won't be forever either. 'nids are out there devouring other galaxies, and the Necrons are buried on random planets god only knows where and how many.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

NeedsMoreDakka wrote:
Then you have Nids, driven only by the need to feed, but im curious as to what happens when all the fleets (Leviathan, Behemoth, Kraken) Finally all meet?

According to modern physics this probably wouldn't happen due to the fact that space extends infinitely in all 3 dimensions, but not infinitely in other dimensions that have a high probability of existence in String Theory. Assuming that the 'nids had a common starting point in another galaxy (alluded to in fluff) they will keep extending in the direction of "easiest prey" for an infinitely long period (as well as infinitely many directions in 3 dimensional space) or the end of what we define as reality whichever comes first (yes, wrap your brain around it a bit), provided of course that they weren't wiped out by someone more bad ass.

Also, pretty sure the Necrons can avoid any biological life form until it withers away or the stars literally burn themselves out. Read the codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Loki- wrote:

vishra wrote:Tyranids - It really depends on who is left at the end of the war. If its races such as Necrons, Dark Eldar, and Eldar, they're done. If its, say, Orks, the Imperium, and Tau, then Tyranids win easily.

Why? Tyranids make use of metal. They bring it to their digestion pools, break it down to its core minerals, and use it. So Necrons can still be eaten. Eldar? I don't see why they'd be trouble for Tyranids. They've already eaten a few Craftworlds (Iyanden was nearly destroyed by Kraken, and Malan'tai was annihilated by a single variant Zoanthrope). Dark Eldar, well, there's simply not enough of them to be a threat to the Tyranids.

You're also assuming that Tyranids get their biomass from the races they fight against. Not so. The vast bulk of their biomass comes from eating planets. There's far more digestible biomass on the planets surface than just the inhabitants.

Assuming that the 'nids are carbon based, this is a valid point. Still, the sheer size of real space (which is alluded too in 40k fluff CONSTANTLY) is such that it is fundamentally impossible to find something that is not emitting any energy or light....and hibernating Necrons do neither in any of the books I've read. They're effectively cloaked for all purposes when in full hibernation. Think about it like this. You yourself are dropped into the middle of the sahara and told that somewhere is a twinkie. You'll want it, you'll search for it, you might find other stuff, but the probability that you actually find the twinkie buried in a random sand dune is so small that its effectively impossible. Even if it started out only 10 feet away from you.

The new Dark Eldar fluff shows that they really aren't concerned about the Tyranids; they used them as biological weapons when they felt like it, and when they wanted to fight them (invasion against the Tau) they did it rather easily, using only Haemonculi forces to wipe them out. Also, I'm very fuzzy on this and could be wrong, but I wasn't aware the Tyranids could get into the Webway.

agroszkiewicz wrote:Assuming that the 'nids are carbon based, this is a valid point. Still, the sheer size of real space (which is alluded too in 40k fluff CONSTANTLY) is such that it is fundamentally impossible to find something that is not emitting any energy or light....and hibernating Necrons do neither in any of the books I've read. They're effectively cloaked for all purposes when in full hibernation. Think about it like this. You yourself are dropped into the middle of the sahara and told that somewhere is a twinkie. You'll want it, you'll search for it, you might find other stuff, but the probability that you actually find the twinkie buried in a random sand dune is so small that its effectively impossible. Even if it started out only 10 feet away from you.

Good point about the necrons effectively cloaking themselves. But it doesn't matter - the Tyranids aren't looking for planets that are habited and defended. They're just looking for planets that have the biomass they want to consume. If there's a race inhabiting the planet, they eat them along with it. If the Necrons have cloaked their presence on a planet, they Tyranids would still see actual planet, which is what they want. The races defending them are just obstacles in that path. Those Necrons? They don't care. The planet? They want.

It's like... putting an obstacle course between a fat person and a buffet. They'll get through that obstacle course, count on it.

-Loki- wrote:

agroszkiewicz wrote:Assuming that the 'nids are carbon based, this is a valid point. Still, the sheer size of real space (which is alluded too in 40k fluff CONSTANTLY) is such that it is fundamentally impossible to find something that is not emitting any energy or light....and hibernating Necrons do neither in any of the books I've read. They're effectively cloaked for all purposes when in full hibernation. Think about it like this. You yourself are dropped into the middle of the sahara and told that somewhere is a twinkie. You'll want it, you'll search for it, you might find other stuff, but the probability that you actually find the twinkie buried in a random sand dune is so small that its effectively impossible. Even if it started out only 10 feet away from you.

Good point about the necrons effectively cloaking themselves. But it doesn't matter - the Tyranids aren't looking for planets that are habited and defended. They're just looking for planets that have the biomass they want to consume. If there's a race inhabiting the planet, they eat them along with it. If the Necrons have cloaked their presence on a planet, they Tyranids would still see actual planet, which is what they want. The races defending them are just obstacles in that path. Those Necrons? They don't care. The planet? They want.

It's like... putting an obstacle course between a fat person and a buffet. They'll get through that obstacle course, count on it.

I wasn't meaning to infer that the 'nids were looking for anything, simply trying to make an analogy about the sheer size of space that folks can actually wrap their brain around. Space is effing HUGE beyond measuring, and thats a literal statement. Based on the depiction of the sizes of known 'nid activity from all the codex's and fluff I've read really point towards them being a vast entity that is still defined by existence in 3 dimensions (the warp really isn't that far fetched when you consider String Theory and particle physics), possibly 4 if you subscribe to the theory that psychic energy is other dimensional in nature, ditto to the webway.

Reading the Necron codex, the C'tan are NOT limited by a 3 dimensional existence....at least not until they entered their bodies. This means that the Necron race has the ultimate advantage...they literally exist on a different level of reality from other races, and thereby will likely be impossible to exerminate. Hell, look at how long the Eldar have managed to stay alive following that concept and they are totally 3 dimensional beings.

Well yeah. The simple size of the galaxy is just not shown.

GW love to release maps in each codex that shows races spanning the whole galaxy, overlapping each other as well if you combine the maps. However, a galaxy is, as you say, big. They show a map showing dozens of Ork empires, but the amount of space between them would contain hundreds of millions of planets not in that empire.

They show the Imperium stretching across the galaxy, but there amount of planets in that area would be in the untold trillions. There'd be plenty of planets in there that humans aren't living on. They show Tyranid Hive Fleets stretching, worming into the galaxy - but the chances of them hitting inhabited solar systems all the time isn't that big.

it's all about exaggeration - which is 40k's key strength to its narrative. Everyone is everywhere fighting all the time.

-Loki- wrote:Well yeah. The simple size of the galaxy is just not shown.

GW love to release maps in each codex that shows races spanning the whole galaxy, overlapping each other as well if you combine the maps. However, a galaxy is, as you say, big. They show a map showing dozens of Ork empires, but the amount of space between them would contain hundreds of millions of planets not in that empire.

They show the Imperium stretching across the galaxy, but there amount of planets in that area would be in the untold trillions. There'd be plenty of planets in there that humans aren't living on. They show Tyranid Hive Fleets stretching, worming into the galaxy - but the chances of them hitting inhabited solar systems all the time isn't that big.

it's all about exaggeration - which is 40k's key strength to its narrative. Everyone is everywhere fighting all the time.

Fo sho, just pointing out that according to GW's own literature there are races that extend beyond our own galaxy...hell orks could very well already have expanded. Its not like they have a newsletter that explains these things! Factoring in the immense distance between each galaxy (or galaxy cluster) means that any race able to traverse that void would have a substantially more efficient energy source than that of the Imperium. That means that the race in question would have an astronomical advantage over others in terms of production, population, and ability to manipulate the world around them. We wouldn't really even be able to recognize it as "technology", which is a fitting description for 'nids and Necrons.

Orks are just violent and impossible to eradicate. I doubt even the 'nids could eat all of them faster than they could breed.

Im going to have to vote orks, everytime you kill them every single cell in their body turns into a spore and floats about till it finds somewhere darkish to land and grow. Assuming and ork is say 6-10 ft tall, thats a whole craptonne of spores. Also, dont forget gretchin, for every ork, there are ATLEAST 3-4 gretchin.

Orks do have many many civil wars, but with all the orks out there, who is to say there isnt another Ghazgull Mag Urak Thraka? cos he is da hand of Gork and Mork, So somones gotta be the FEET!

In a real world with all of these factions vying for control of the galaxy or its destruction most likely tyranid or necron but in a GW controlled wolrd THE IMPERIUM OF MAN!!!!!!!!

agroszkiewicz wrote:
Orks are just violent and impossible to eradicate. I doubt even the 'nids could eat all of them faster than they could breed.

I see what you're saying here, but not even Orks are going to be able to prosper on a world properly scoured by a hive Fleet - not liquids, not atmosphere, no geo-thermal heat. Just a ball of dust. Given enough Tyranids and enough time, the number of worlds capable of supporting life in the galaxy will drop towards zero and other forms of life will be forced into a corner (or have to live in space - Orks might well become a space hulk ghost story).

As for the Tyranids finding worlds - I see exactly whhat you're saying regarding the size of the galaxy relative to the amount of matter (let alone planets) in it, but now the Tyranid Narvhal can "see" the gravity wells of other planets/stars etc. If it's there, they'll find it.

Tyranic Marta wrote:Interesting point, but are there enough necrons to defeat both the nids and the orks simultaneously?

Their* total number remains unknown. It doesn't really matter how many they are, they'll just get back up and keep fighting.

Necrons*

I'm split between Orkz, 'Nids and 'Crons, but I voted for the Orkz.

Xyptc wrote:

agroszkiewicz wrote:
Orks are just violent and impossible to eradicate. I doubt even the 'nids could eat all of them faster than they could breed.

I see what you're saying here, but not even Orks are going to be able to prosper on a world properly scoured by a hive Fleet - not liquids, not atmosphere, no geo-thermal heat. Just a ball of dust. Given enough Tyranids and enough time, the number of worlds capable of supporting life in the galaxy will drop towards zero and other forms of life will be forced into a corner (or have to live in space - Orks might well become a space hulk ghost story).

As for the Tyranids finding worlds - I see exactly whhat you're saying regarding the size of the galaxy relative to the amount of matter (let alone planets) in it, but now the Tyranid Narvhal can "see" the gravity wells of other planets/stars etc. If it's there, they'll find it.

What's to stop other races from simply re-terraforming the entire world?

vishra wrote:

Xyptc wrote:

agroszkiewicz wrote:
Orks are just violent and impossible to eradicate. I doubt even the 'nids could eat all of them faster than they could breed.

I see what you're saying here, but not even Orks are going to be able to prosper on a world properly scoured by a hive Fleet - not liquids, not atmosphere, no geo-thermal heat. Just a ball of dust. Given enough Tyranids and enough time, the number of worlds capable of supporting life in the galaxy will drop towards zero and other forms of life will be forced into a corner (or have to live in space - Orks might well become a space hulk ghost story).

As for the Tyranids finding worlds - I see exactly whhat you're saying regarding the size of the galaxy relative to the amount of matter (let alone planets) in it, but now the Tyranid Narvhal can "see" the gravity wells of other planets/stars etc. If it's there, they'll find it.

What's to stop other races from simply re-terraforming the entire world?

How many races have the ability to do that to the degree that is necessary after a world has been scoured? The Tyranids take so much with them that what is left behind is essentially worthless. No atmosphere, no liquid, severaly drained geo-thermal core, depleted minerals etc.

As I recall, the Eldar once had that ability but it's pretty much lost to them now (hence the whole race to protect Maiden Worlds from defilers thing).

There is a reason that they are called "dead worlds".

I see a few options...
1. Tyranids kill everything, necrons are left. Only thing is necrons dont multiply so maybe they will be killed before everything to kill them gets killed.

2. The golden throne fails (it says so in the 5th edition rulebook) and daemons kill everything, leaving chaos space marines alive but the marines will prob get killed by the constant chaos wars, leaving only the gods themselves (and constantly reacreated servants).

3. Orks kill nids and everything else, then fight each other for ever.

4. Orks and nids fight a constant stalemate until nids create something that kills ork spore and bye bye orks.

5. The tau become so technologically advanced they create a waepon that destroyes everything alive except themselves in the universe or somethin like that.

6.Dark eldar hamounculi can create new dark eldar (says so in the codex) so maybe they set up giant cration facilities and multiply their race billionfold.

Malice wrote:I see a few options...5. The tau become so technologically advanced they create a waepon that destroyes everything alive except themselves in the universe or somethin like that.

O god I hate Tau fanboys.
Tau only seem so advanced because they are more standardised than the Imperium,they have less soldier to arm.They're not more advanced than the Imperium.