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Andrew1975 wrote:Anybody think GW did this on purpose just to keep people form posting on boards about failcast for a couple of days?

Honestly, I've seen company's do this before. They put out a "hoax" knowing that people are going to get it, try it and talk about it. It gives them a way to play test it before actually paying people, or distributing it to gaming groups. Real or not, some of the changes seem to benefit the game. The playability and speed factor are the things that concern me on a new edition. I can see some of the changes, but why try and reinvent the wheel?

Just my two cents!

Name one company that's done this before.

The facts are that very, very few companies ever leak their own stuff deliberately.

It almost never happens. People like to say it happens to sound cool and justify the leak, but companies do not leak their own stuff regularly.

Why? Because this is money. It's also a complete loss of control over a product and brand image.

If a company really wanted to do testing before a release, they'd go out and test it, not that difficult to do.

If they leaked it themselves, they wouldn't sell any real rulebooks. We would all just update our 90% complete "playtest" copies when the real one came out.

Leaking on purpose would be a horrible business move.

Rented Tritium wrote:If they leaked it themselves, they wouldn't sell any real rulebooks. We would all just update our 90% complete "playtest" copies when the real one came out.

Leaking on purpose would be a horrible business move.

Ahh, yes, because pdf copies on the internet have completely stopped the sale of paper codexes and rulebooks in the past.

Rented Tritium wrote:If they leaked it themselves, they wouldn't sell any real rulebooks. We would all just update our 90% complete "playtest" copies when the real one came out.

Leaking on purpose would be a horrible business move.

If the edition has problems or plays poorly it also severely damages expectations for the update.

pretre wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:If they leaked it themselves, they wouldn't sell any real rulebooks. We would all just update our 90% complete "playtest" copies when the real one came out.

Leaking on purpose would be a horrible business move.

Ahh, yes, because pdf copies on the internet have completely stopped the sale of paper codexes and rulebooks in the past.

Crappy scanned pdf copies are not freely distributed in rumor mills.


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ShumaGorath wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:If they leaked it themselves, they wouldn't sell any real rulebooks. We would all just update our 90% complete "playtest" copies when the real one came out.

Leaking on purpose would be a horrible business move.

If the edition has problems or plays poorly it also severely damages expectations for the update.

I'm reminded of Giant Solifuge in MTG. Several playtest cards from a set were leaked in very powerful forms and ended up getting printed weaker. It severely damaged player perception of the set.

Vertrucio wrote:Name one company that's done this before.

Privateer Press did a "beta" release of Warmachine MkII, if I remember correctly.

Wyrd Miniatures had a pretty much open beta of the second Malifaux book.

Soda Pop Miniatures released the rules for Super Dungeon Explore long before the game was available.

Infinity has the PDF rules available for free on their site, and they still manage to sell print copies.


Sure, none of those are "leaked" copies, but they are beta or final rules given away for free and they still sell rulebooks and popular game systems.

Vertrucio wrote:Name one company that's done this before.

The facts are that very, very few companies ever leak their own stuff deliberately.

It almost never happens. People like to say it happens to sound cool and justify the leak, but companies do not leak their own stuff regularly.

Why? Because this is money. It's also a complete loss of control over a product and brand image.

If a company really wanted to do testing before a release, they'd go out and test it, not that difficult to do.

I can sense your condescending tone right from the get go. After spending the majority of my life playing RPG's, 30+ years now, and being retired from federal service, I can say without a doubt I've seen this before. It happens daily in the government realm, in technology (which I work in) and when I owned my hobby store. I have all the books I need on PDF, and have them in hard copy as well.

All I was saying is that it's entirely possible. Again, my opinion, not a fact.

dahli.llama wrote:

Vertrucio wrote:Name one company that's done this before.

Privateer Press did a "beta" release of Warmachine MkII, if I remember correctly.

Wyrd Miniatures had a pretty much open beta of the second Malifaux book.

Soda Pop Miniatures released the rules for Super Dungeon Explore long before the game was available.

Infinity has the PDF rules available for free on their site, and they still manage to sell print copies.


Sure, none of those are "leaked" copies, but they are beta or final rules given away for free and they still sell rulebooks and popular game systems.

If it's not leaked then it's not comparable as that was the entire point.

I'm not getting too worked up about this... I'm fairly comfortable in what I'm about to say.

Last may, there was a rumor that the person directly responsible for 6th's re-write has since left the company and that the design had been complete for a long time. There was also a rumor about that time that states the the original design for 6th was more radical that the uppers at GW were comfortable with (hence, why the designer might have wanted to leave the company). That original design would have since been trimmed to be more in line with what we are currently playing.

I think that points to Alessio Cavatore as the original author. This might be a leak of his original work. It explains some of the weird word choice (Cavatore is not a native English speaker), as well as the large departure from 'Standard' 40k. (Didn't he make large changes to Fantasy when he was involved with the re-write of those rules?) It also explains the completeness, since this was document would have been in a form that could have been play-tested.

While not a "company" the US has on occasion drawn our attentions away from more pressing issues by various methods....Just saying.

Anpu-adom wrote:Last may, there was a rumor that the person directly responsible for 6th's re-write has since left the company. There was also a rumor about that time that states the the original design for 6th was more radical that the uppers at GW were comfortable with (hence, why the designer might have wanted to leave the company).

Wasn't this the story at the beginning of 4th?

I give it 50-50 on it being real. If it's a hoax, it's one that took a lot of effort.

If real, sad to see the Heavy Bolter is still awful. It was long overdue for an upgrade!

Anpu-adom wrote:I'm not getting too worked up about this... I'm fairly comfortable in what I'm about to say.

Last may, there was a rumor that the person directly responsible for 6th's re-write has since left the company and that the design had been complete for a long time. There was also a rumor about that time that states the the original design for 6th was more radical that the uppers at GW were comfortable with (hence, why the designer might have wanted to leave the company). That original design would have since been trimmed to be more in line with what we are currently playing.

I think that points to Alessio Cavatore as the original author. This might be a leak of his original work. It explains some of the weird word choice (Cavatore is not a native English speaker), as well as the large departure from 'Standard' 40k. (Didn't he make large changes to Fantasy when he was involved with the re-write of those rules?) It also explains the completeness, since this was document would have been in a form that could have been play-tested.

It does have a bit of a similar feel to his work for mantic, if you took it to the opposite end of the complexity spectrum.

Andrew1975 wrote:While not a "company" the US has on occasion drawn our attentions away from more pressing issues by various methods....Just saying.

I'm facepalming so hard I think it's going to give me brain damage.

Anpu-adom wrote:I'm not getting too worked up about this... I'm fairly comfortable in what I'm about to say.

Last may, there was a rumor that the person directly responsible for 6th's re-write has since left the company. There was also a rumor about that time that states the the original design for 6th was more radical that the uppers at GW were comfortable with (hence, why the designer might have wanted to leave the company).

I think that points to Alessio Cavatore as the original author. This might be a leak of his original work. It explains some of the weird word choice (Cavatore is not a native English speaker), as well as the large departure from 'Standard' 40k. (Didn't he make large changes to Fantasy when he was involved with the re-write of those rules?" It also explains the completeness, since this was document would have been in a form that could have been play-tested.

This is interesting as warpath uses a very similar squad leader rule. However Cavatore usually simplifies rules, this is obviously more complex, but it also seams more comprehensive. Well until the rules lawyers get ahold of it.

Vertrucio wrote:Name one company that's done this before.

The facts are that very, very few companies ever leak their own stuff deliberately.

It almost never happens. People like to say it happens to sound cool and justify the leak, but companies do not leak their own stuff regularly.

Why? Because this is money. It's also a complete loss of control over a product and brand image.

If a company really wanted to do testing before a release, they'd go out and test it, not that difficult to do.

yeah,
rumour has it apple staff 'loose' their phones in bars or restaurants to see what the reaction is to the new upgrades in iOS or hardware...

Panic...

Even though I have not read them, these rules are complete bull, because, put simply, too many people on this thread think they're good.

Wake up and smell the plastic glue dakka, cos not a week goes by without this site falling out over powerful codexes (a grey knight discussion went on for 40+ pages) and somebody moaning about something.
Most importantly, since when did GW write good rules? Tell me? Talk to me!!!
Rare are the instances when people on this site agree about something and rarer still are the instances of people agreeing on a job well done by GW. This has smokescreen written all over it. And yet, people with good sense and wisdom are being seduced. Even a cynic like H.M.B.C (who's views are insightful) is buying it.

As sure as i have a hole in my rear, these rules are fake and you can quote me on that!!

In other words, it's one big s*** sandwich and people have had a bite and are coming back for more.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Even though I have not read them, these rules are complete bull, because, put simply, too many people on this thread think they're good.

Wake up and smell the plastic glue dakka, cos not a week goes by without this site falling out over powerful codexes (a grey knight discussion went on for 40+ pages) and somebody moaning about something.
Most importantly, since when did GW write good rules? Tell me? Talk to me!!!
Rare are the instances when people on this site agree about something and rarer still are the instances of people agreeing on a job well done by GW. This has smokescreen written all over it. And yet, people with good sense and wisdom are being seduced. Even a cynic like H.M.B.C (who's views are insightful) is buying it.

As sure as i have a hole in my rear, these rules are fake and you can quote me on that!!

In other words, it's one big s*** sandwich and people have had a bite and are coming back for more.

And you base this on... what, ketchup?

Panic wrote:

Vertrucio wrote:Name one company that's done this before.

The facts are that very, very few companies ever leak their own stuff deliberately.

It almost never happens. People like to say it happens to sound cool and justify the leak, but companies do not leak their own stuff regularly.

Why? Because this is money. It's also a complete loss of control over a product and brand image.

If a company really wanted to do testing before a release, they'd go out and test it, not that difficult to do.

yeah,
rumour has it apple staff 'loose' their phones in bars or restaurants to see what the reaction is to the new upgrades in iOS or hardware...

Panic...

Those staff then get fired, offices get raided, and lawsuits are filed..

Anpu-adom wrote:I think that points to Alessio Cavatore as the original author. This might be a leak of his original work. It explains some of the weird word choice (Cavatore is not a native English speaker), as well as the large departure from 'Standard' 40k. (Didn't he make large changes to Fantasy when he was involved with the re-write of those rules?" It also explains the completeness, since this was document would have been in a form that could have been play-tested.

I doubt this is his original work, I seem to recall in a interview he said he liked to keep rules simply, I can't see him doing a massive rewrite and adding complexity to the game, this is also seems like a heavily tweaked version of the earlier rumors posted on warseer sometime ago (not this was a consolidation of rumors posted on warseer rather than a leaked doc): https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B24n_9IoRXsONTIzYjE3YmQtYzZhNC00ZGM3LWI5NTEtMDAzZTYyMTFmMzhh&hl=en_US&pli=1

ShumaGorath wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:While not a "company" the US has on occasion drawn our attentions away from more pressing issues by various methods....Just saying.

I'm facepalming so hard I think it's going to give me brain damage.

Leave Shuma alone, he doesn't have much of a brain to begin with!

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Even though I have not read them, these rules are complete bull, because, put simply, too many people on this thread think they're good.

Oh Dakka. Never change.

I'm just kidding, dakka please stop having stuff like this on your site.


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warpcrafter wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:While not a "company" the US has on occasion drawn our attentions away from more pressing issues by various methods....Just saying.

I'm facepalming so hard I think it's going to give me brain damage.

Leave Shuma alone, he doesn't have much of a brain to begin with!

My time in off topic has already caused me to shatter my skull with facepalms several times. This site is going to get me killed. (keep quiet about this though, last time I pointed out someone trolling the person in question banned me and threatened to do it for two more months if I talked back!)


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The new ID rulings mean that EW isn't required just to avoid hidden fists. This is a nice change since the chapter I play isn't blessed with unkillable godmen.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Even though I have not read them,

Let me go ahead and stop you right there. Can you tell me where you went wrong?

I like the reserve rules presented here.

So I'm going second in an annihilation mission, I can reserve my whole army, guarantee that nothing shows up until the bottom of 'Game Cycle' 4, and that it all shows up together, and proceed to give my opponent a mere two turns to do any damage (while I get three).

pretre wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Even though I have not read them,

Let me go ahead and stop you right there. Can you tell me where you went wrong?

I"m really digging these new rules, and it is actually getting me excited for 40k again. Therefore, these rules are fake then. These are just too good for them to be real.

Redbeard wrote:I like the reserve rules presented here.

So I'm going second in an annihilation mission, I can reserve my whole army, guarantee that nothing shows up until the bottom of 'Game Cycle' 4, and that it all shows up together, and proceed to give my opponent a mere two turns to do any damage (while I get three).

Said it was Dawn of War... meaning that you start with 2 troops and a HQ on the board. Do you think you'll still be alive to see turn 4?

ShatteredBlade wrote: I"m really digging these new rules, and it is actually getting me excited for 40k again. Therefore, these rules are fake then. These are just too good for them to be real.

I think you may be confusing new and different with good. It is a little bit early to say that they are good or bad. There are a ton of interactions here that could cause some dramatic imbalance or a new era of balance.

Anpu-adom wrote:

Redbeard wrote:I like the reserve rules presented here.

So I'm going second in an annihilation mission, I can reserve my whole army, guarantee that nothing shows up until the bottom of 'Game Cycle' 4, and that it all shows up together, and proceed to give my opponent a mere two turns to do any damage (while I get three).

Said it was Dawn of War... meaning that you start with 2 troops and a HQ on the board. Do you think you'll still be alive to see turn 4?

Assuming Dawn of War still exists, deploying an HQ and 2 troops is the maximum you can start on the board. It is not mandatory to start them on the board, however. You are perfectly fine putting everything in reserve.

That would be an awesome move and sweet revenge by some pissed of designer that got fired. I'll leak my much better written rules just as GW is getting ready to release their new garbage edition.

I predict it now, the release of 6th gets pushed back as GW does some retooling ie gaks itslef and has to rewrite the entire new edition because it sucks compared to this!

Oh and there will be a price hike to recuperate all the lost resources put into the sad 6th that they were going to release.

I'm calling this one.