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 Swastakowey wrote:


Oh well, at least I have my own little 40k world to retreat to.

Yeah its called the south island. And no one likes that joint.

Maybe void shields are a powerful magnet shell as well. I dunno im not mechanicus.

Your sig is pretty much sm fighting feral orks. Yet you cant believe a armoured squad with automatic rocket launchers doing that to you.

You are a Kiwi, flightless, prey to everything and endangered. A bit like those people your sig is shooting

the ancient wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:


Oh well, at least I have my own little 40k world to retreat to.

Yeah its called the south island. And no one likes that joint.

Maybe void shields are a powerful magnet shell as well. I dunno im not mechanicus.

Your sig is pretty much sm fighting feral orks. Yet you cant believe a armoured squad with automatic rocket launchers doing that to you.

You are a Kiwi, flightless, prey to everything and endangered. A bit like those people your sig is shooting

Woah, woah mate.

South island is full of hardy hunters. Seriously, the nicest deer and boar are from there. Its wild land there.

Those men dying in the sig.. they had just slaughtered thousands of men from the most advanced British army at the time not too long earlier. completely wiped them out bar some surviving cavalry members. They made huge amounts of British soldiers retreat after that army was wiped out.

Ever seen a kiwi defend its nest? They kill huge rats and possum regularly. They are not defenseless by a long shot. What they lack in wings, they make up for in sheer beak power mate.

Go back to clubbing baby Kangaroos and turning em into rather bland sausies, we at least have the self respect not to eat the Icon of our country

Alright guys, that's enough. Stay on topic

Haha. brilliant. You forgot the very big hills.
No but i've kicked a couple You cant eat much of what you haven't got. Roo's leg's are feed to the dogs after its been chopped off with a machette. Besides the kiw/guardsman cant stand up to a ca/marine, that's why its endangered.

Well ive seen a proper kiwi in a blue. He was bigger,stronger,faster. Just like a catachan. Not a marine.
He piffed his glass at one, dropped 2, 2 ran away. The blue filth didnt want to go anywhere near him. It was hilarious.

So 150 unarmoured redcoats with superior weapons beat 3000+. Thats just regular humies. Tell me why 1 marine couldnt smash up 23+ humies. You believe those odds.

I guess the best we have for a marine equivalent, which i think would be more storm troopery carapace armour, would be the hollywood shootout. Replace the cops with guard

For one those redcoats lost to many rednecks many times in my state of residence, due to guerilla tactics. The equipment of a force matters less when facing an opponent with better terrain as well as an opponent with superior strategy. Case and point the USA's war for independence.

I think the situation with marines might be comparable to Vietnam, not enough dudes trying to hold a line losing to a bunch of dudes with tunnels. There just werent enough men and they enemy had better command of the terrain.

The situations are not comparable at all. A more accurate comparison would be guardsmen fighting local rebels.

the ancient wrote:
Haha. brilliant. You forgot the very big hills.
No but i've kicked a couple You cant eat much of what you haven't got. Roo's leg's are feed to the dogs after its been chopped off with a machette. Besides the kiw/guardsman cant stand up to a ca/marine, that's why its endangered.

Well ive seen a proper kiwi in a blue. He was bigger,stronger,faster. Just like a catachan. Not a marine.
He piffed his glass at one, dropped 2, 2 ran away. The blue filth didnt want to go anywhere near him. It was hilarious.

So 150 unarmoured redcoats with superior weapons beat 3000+. Thats just regular humies. Tell me why 1 marine couldnt smash up 23+ humies. You believe those odds.

I guess the best we have for a marine equivalent, which i think would be more storm troopery carapace armour, would be the hollywood shootout. Replace the cops with guard

Send an IG trooper back in time and he will think we know nothing about war, honestly. We are childsplay to them. An IG is probably the equivalent of a U.S. army ranger, a scion is the equivalent of a U.S. Navy seal except with much better weapons and armor than any other human. Wielding hellguns that can incapacitate a chaos marine with enough accuracy.

IG are naturally great and it's not just the training, it's the countless battles they fight. Experience is better training than any drill sergeant could ever offer.



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 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
For one those redcoats lost to many rednecks many times in my state of residence, due to guerilla tactics. The equipment of a force matters less when facing an opponent with better terrain as well as an opponent with superior strategy. Case and point the USA's war for independence.

I think the situation with marines might be comparable to Vietnam, not enough dudes trying to hold a line losing to a bunch of dudes with tunnels. There just werent enough men and they enemy had better command of the terrain.

Only one thing I have to say about the American revolution.

A man fighting for his freedom is different from a man fighting because he is payed.

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

Ehm... as much as our history books paint the American Revolution being won by the "guerrilla tactics" of the colonists, the truth is it was an exceedingly unpopular war, and we were getting our asses kicked until Lafeyette showed up to give us a hand, and French pressure on England in Europe forced a recall of British troops from the colonies to defend the homefront.

 Psienesis wrote:
Ehm... as much as our history books paint the American Revolution being won by the "guerrilla tactics" of the colonists, the truth is it was an exceedingly unpopular war, and we were getting our asses kicked until Lafeyette showed up to give us a hand, and French pressure on England in Europe forced a recall of British troops from the colonies to defend the homefront.

Yeah, but this conversation should probably be transferred to the off-topic forum as this is getting extremely off topic.

Stay on topic everyone. If you reall wanna talk about it, post a thread in off-topic and you'll probably see me there.

 Psienesis wrote:
Ehm... as much as our history books paint the American Revolution being won by the "guerrilla tactics" of the colonists, the truth is it was an exceedingly unpopular war, and we were getting our asses kicked until Lafeyette showed up to give us a hand, and French pressure on England in Europe forced a recall of British troops from the colonies to defend the homefront.

Francis Marion and the mountain men beg to differ, they were in no way connected to Lafeyette's training and handed the British their asses with hit and run attacks and running from tree to tree. Welcome to South Carolina buddy, more battles than anywhere else and were the majority of the "guerrilla war" was fought.

As for the topic, a space marine is rendered useless by the amount of funding that is wasted on him, like the f35. We have spent way too much on it but have too much money into the project but for that reason we cant quit.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Ehm... as much as our history books paint the American Revolution being won by the "guerrilla tactics" of the colonists, the truth is it was an exceedingly unpopular war, and we were getting our asses kicked until Lafeyette showed up to give us a hand, and French pressure on England in Europe forced a recall of British troops from the colonies to defend the homefront.

Francis Marion and the mountain men beg to differ, they were in no way connected to Lafeyette's training and handed the British their asses with hit and run attacks and running from tree to tree. Welcome to South Carolina buddy, more battles than anywhere else and were the majority of the "guerrilla war" was fought.

As for the topic, a space marine is rendered useless by the amount of funding that is wasted on him, like the f35. We have spent way too much on it but have too much money into the project but for that reason we cant quit.

Outside normal everyday life for citizens, funding means dick to the Imperiums armed forces. The high lords of terra demand the needs of marines be provided for the survival of humanity. No world will dare ask for money because they know damn well if they reject the continuation of the adeptus astartes, humanity will fall.

The worlds of the Imperium do not pay a tax to the Administratum... they pay a tithe.

What's the difference? Taxes are paid with the expectation of something in return. Tithes? Tithes are paid with no reasonable expectation of getting something back.

You pay taxes to your government, you tithe to your church.

 Psienesis wrote:
The worlds of the Imperium do not pay a tax to the Administratum... they pay a tithe.

What's the difference? Taxes are paid with the expectation of something in return. Tithes? Tithes are paid with no reasonable expectation of getting something back.

You pay taxes to your government, you tithe to your church.

Yes, that lol

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Because they are awesome, and this is fiction. Really bro really?

So you come onto background discussion forums to say that? Really bro really?

 Quarterdime wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Because they are awesome, and this is fiction. Really bro really?

So you come onto background discussion forums to say that? Really bro really?

While his post was needlessly dismissive I suppose there is truth to it. The setting runs on Rule of Cool, and Astartes are certainly not an exception.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Quarterdime wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:
Because they are awesome, and this is fiction. Really bro really?

So you come onto background discussion forums to say that? Really bro really?

While his post was needlessly dismissive I suppose there is truth to it. The setting runs on Rule of Cool, and Astartes are certainly not an exception.

40k is powered by the rule of cool, rivets, spikes, and skulls. Anything that meets 2 of these criteria probably was inspired by or inspired so,ething in 40K.

Ashiraya wrote:Here is what I mean: A tactical marine takes perhaps 70 years to get ready for battle.

They only take ten or so years to be ready for battle. Which seems like a long time, but they are alwaus preparing more in the pipeline, and they serve as scouts for the last several years of that ten.

You have to remember that the Chapter doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are always new recruits coming up in training to replace casualties. They don't just start fresh every time a Marine dies. Each Marine has two sets of progenoid glands, which means each Marine can create two Space Marines, and he only has to die for the second one to be made. So the Chapters have stores of geneseed on hand.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Each Marine has two sets of progenoid glands, which means each Marine can create two Space Marines, and he only has to die for the second one to be made. So the Chapters have stores of geneseed on hand.

On the other hand, you have to recover the second geneseed gland from a dead/dying marine. In a losing battle or some of the environments they fight in it might just not be possible. And the implantation process isn't perfect - even fully genetically compatible recruits can pass all tests and still fail. A Chapter fallen on hard times might actually be unable to reach full strength with just the geneseed they have stored. Even the Blood Angels were once decimated so badly that they had to ask their successors for a gift of recruits and geneseed in order to go on. A less well-known and respected Chapter would be left to die out.

IIRC It used to be they took the glands out as soon as they had matured and did not have to wait till they were dying?

 Mr Morden wrote:
IIRC It used to be they took the glands out as soon as they had matured and did not have to wait till they were dying?

There's two sets - the first set in the chest takes five years to mature and is usually taken out when ready. The other set is located near the spine, takes ten years to mature and is usually recovered only when the marine dies. Superstition has led the marines to believe that set will carry some of the experiance of the marine who died with it, so it's worth risking losing it in combat because the marine created from it will be "better".

How is this a question!? Lol.. I see plenty of uses for a space marine that is basically a god compared to a normal IG member that is so much stronger, faster, durable, and much more intelligent to start with. I think that figure would be incorrect saying that Astartes is equal to about 10 guardsmen. There is plenty in the fluff that contradicts itself but this is definitely incorrect from all that i have read. A figure more like 100 IG would be more correct easily.

At least in my mind space marines serve an excellent purpose.

MercenStein wrote:
At least in my mind space marines serve an excellent purpose.

They do, just not perhaps quite to the god-like levels some fluff or fans would make it out. They're excellent fast-response troops, often striking at enemies of the IoM before the reports have even reached the sector HQ. They're excellent shock troops, fearsome enough that many rebellions end when the Chapter Master asks for it in exchange for his men not attacking the planet. They can be thrown at particularly hardened enemy positions, or sent to attack exotic locations like space hulks and asteroids without any extra preparations.

But they still can't hold ground, they're too few.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Ashiraya wrote:Here is what I mean: A tactical marine takes perhaps 70 years to get ready for battle.

They only take ten or so years to be ready for battle. Which seems like a long time, but they are alwaus preparing more in the pipeline, and they serve as scouts for the last several years of that ten.

You have to remember that the Chapter doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are always new recruits coming up in training to replace casualties. They don't just start fresh every time a Marine dies. Each Marine has two sets of progenoid glands, which means each Marine can create two Space Marines, and he only has to die for the second one to be made. So the Chapters have stores of geneseed on hand.

Yes, -now- I know they don't take 70 years. You are responding to a post that is two years old.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Each Marine has two sets of progenoid glands, which means each Marine can create two Space Marines, and he only has to die for the second one to be made. So the Chapters have stores of geneseed on hand.

On the other hand, you have to recover the second geneseed gland from a dead/dying marine. In a losing battle or some of the environments they fight in it might just not be possible. And the implantation process isn't perfect - even fully genetically compatible recruits can pass all tests and still fail. A Chapter fallen on hard times might actually be unable to reach full strength with just the geneseed they have stored. Even the Blood Angels were once decimated so badly that they had to ask their successors for a gift of recruits and geneseed in order to go on. A less well-known and respected Chapter would be left to die out.

I have to disagree. Look at the Crimson Fists, who were slaughtered to 24 brothers on their own home world, yet they would live to prosper as a chapter once more.

 Melissia wrote:
Space Marines aren't the Emperor's Will made flesh.

That's the Inquisition. Space Marines are myths and legends to most Imperial citizens-- the Emperor's angels of death, as it were. They'll never get to see a Marine anyway-- but the Inquisition is something real that they hope they never have to deal with. The Inquisition is His will, manifest.

To be fair the inquisition is just as mythical to most citizens of the Imperium, but in a much scarier way


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 Melissia wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Marine and human power armour is only equal in the table top

Also in the lore, too. So they're only equal in tabletop and the lore.

Sororitas power armor is described as having the same amount of protection as astartes power armor, for example, and sororitas power armor is manufactured in larger quantities than the highly customized suits that inquisitorial agents wear. I would go so far as to say that the power armor that inquisitors wear is far more advanced than what the Astartes have access to. Same with the power armor that the Mechanicus' armed forces wear (in fact, even techpriest power armor is superior in many ways to Astartes power armor, and techpriests are fairly low in the Mechanicus' hierarchy).

They aren't even close to equal in lore. The SoB power armor has been retconned to not offer as much protection, and the inquisitor's never has.

Edited for being a dill weed.

Space Marine armor is mor powerful than human power armor and Space Marines do not view sisters as equal. The SoB do not view each other as equal either

Most information on living saints is in game theory and ambiguous at best. 1 astartes is not equal to 10 guard. It's more like 100 guard for the weakest astartes and 50 SoB

edited again because it changed DHEAD to dill weed and I think that's awesome.

jakejackjake wrote:
The SoB power armor has been retconned to not offer as much protection

Where? When? Are you making this up?

jakejackjake wrote:
Space Marine armor is mor powerful than human power armor and Space Marines do not view sisters as equal. The SoB do not view each other as equal either

Of course not. Everyone knows one sister is worth 50 marines.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Each Marine has two sets of progenoid glands, which means each Marine can create two Space Marines, and he only has to die for the second one to be made. So the Chapters have stores of geneseed on hand.

On the other hand, you have to recover the second geneseed gland from a dead/dying marine. In a losing battle or some of the environments they fight in it might just not be possible. And the implantation process isn't perfect - even fully genetically compatible recruits can pass all tests and still fail. A Chapter fallen on hard times might actually be unable to reach full strength with just the geneseed they have stored. Even the Blood Angels were once decimated so badly that they had to ask their successors for a gift of recruits and geneseed in order to go on. A less well-known and respected Chapter would be left to die out.

The Blood Angels thing really goes back to the "People writing stories for Games Workshop don't understand how logistics work and are just looking for easy narrative hooks."

Kinda like the "A Space Marine Chapter only has 1000 guys but it takes almost 500 just to crew all their vehicles."

Though from what I understand (haven't read the novel), the Blood Angels problem wasn't a lack of geneseed, it was a lack of recruits, period. That could be a problem in the short term.

Think about the Blood Angels for a second. A chapter tithes 10% of their gene seed for testing. Okay, so that leaves them with 90% that they get to keep. They're only allowed to have 1000 Marines at a time, but each Marine gets 2 progenoid glands. Even if we were to say that fully 50% of Space Marine geneseed is irrecoverable, either through failed recruits or lost/obliterated battlefield casualties, they're still getting 1500 Space Marines out of every full Chapter's worth of Marines they go through.

Now, let's ignore attrition, and assume that the average Space Marine lives for 400 years (this will give us a low-end estimate). It's been 10,000 years since the adoption of the Codex Astartes. That means the Blood Angels have gone through roughly 25 full Chapters worth of Marines since the Heresy. That gives them 37,500 sets of geneseed, of which they tithe 3750 to the AdMech for testing. The Blood Angels have 33750 sets of geneseed, using 25,000 sets for the actual Space Marines they've created, leaving them 13,750 unused and stored sets of progenoid glands. I mean, we an fiddle with the numbers if we say the AdMech tithe is before losses, but you can see the point here. A First Founding Chapter like the Blood Angels can't even potentially run out of geneseed without some kind of major catastrophe like losing their home planet or some kind of nefarious plan to wholesale destroy massive stocks of it.

A 25th or 26th Founding Chapter? Maybe. But even a 23rd Founding Chapter has almost three full chapters worth of stored geneseed alone.

jakejackjake wrote:
Edited for being a dill weed.

Space Marine armor is mor powerful than human power armor and Space Marines do not view sisters as equal. The SoB do not view each other as equal either

Most information on living saints is in game theory and ambiguous at best. 1 astartes is not equal to 10 guard. It's more like 100 guard for the weakest astartes and 50 SoB

edited again because it changed DHEAD to dill weed and I think that's awesome.

yes and no - many Space Marines do not regard anyone other than their own Chapter brothers as equals and usually have to be shown the value of a given Guardsman/woman, Sororitas, Inquisitor etc through their deeds. Most Marines when show the worthyness of such indivudals accept them as equals

The Living Saint/s are facts - what they are is debatable............same as some of the stranger elements in the Blood Angels and other Chapters?

Sororitas and Inquisitoral Power armour offers as much protection as Astartes - however Inquisitors can have at least Artificier grade armour as well.... Sororitas don't have the black carapace so can't access all the advantages of power armour but Inquistors can have a neural interface bodyglove which does the same thing.........they can also have Temrinator armour, force fields and all sorts of Xenos and forbidden Tech.