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When do marines tank battle cannons? For marines, they are pretty much the main things to be afraid of.

pelicaniforce wrote:
When do marines tank battle cannons? For marines, they are pretty much the main things to be afraid of.

TDA

 Peregrine wrote:

But the solution to red tape is to remove the red tape, not to build an entire new branch of the military that doesn't have any red tape.

The Space Marines aren't a new branch (nor has the fluff ever stated or implied that they don't earn back the cost it takes to build them).

Also, removing ten-thousand years of red tape across a million planets under a system specifically designed to make it so armies can't last long if they go rogue lest the Horus Heresy repeat itself isn't going to be any easy task.

 Peregrine wrote:
..there are a few billion guardsmen with melta or plasma guns for every space marine in the Imperium.

What a load of nonsense, you do know that both of those weapon types are incredibly rare, plasma even more so than melta since only a few forgeworlds in the entire Imperium can make it. This also ignores the logistics of getting billions of guardsmen anywhere.

But the solution to red tape is to remove the red tape, not to build an entire new branch of the military that doesn't have any red tape.

You do know that the Space Marines pre-exist the Administratum yes? The Imperium didn't create the Space Marines, the Space Marines created the Imperium! All of that red-tape came into existence once humans were put in charge.

Except the absurdly tiny number of space marines means that while they may be able to get to your war fairly quickly if they decide to come the chances of getting any meaningful help from them are on the level of the chances of winning the lottery. A fast reaction force makes sense, but only if you can actually deploy it where it is needed.

 1hadhq wrote:

pelicaniforce wrote:
When do marines tank battle cannons? For marines, they are pretty much the main things to be afraid of.

TDA

Artificer armour, too, can shrug off direct hits from battle cannons.

Cain is a bad example. He likes running away. Preferably in the fastest thing around. You can give them a blank/armour, but thtats mkay?

Yes lets use knights and bane blades and stuff, hang on ive got a couple of billion catachans you can use as well. You might as well theyre every damn where. Its only a death world.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
If you are into psychics, you know that you must be pretty tough to shrug off a direct hit from a weapon of the Battle Cannon's size, armour or no.

You mean physics, right?
Though psychics could be interesting here .

 Envihon wrote:
Because a Commisar makes all the difference when a Chaos-fueled superhuman is going through his lines like a hot knife through butter.

Yes. Yes it does. Also melta does. Ask Ciaphas Cain and Ferik Jurgen.

 Envihon wrote:
The AM are usually not equipped to deal with power armor unless it is artillery.

Or anti-tank weapons. They have tons of them.

 Envihon wrote:
Against foes like that, the SM are needed.

What about Imperial Knights, Titanic legions, Baneblades and all that?

 Envihon wrote:
The only normal humans that could take them are the SoB because they happen to have Power Armor as well and have conditioning to withstand such treatment but the SoB are raised to be that and imo, suffer from the same problem that the SM do, they can't replenish their numbers quick enough since they are literally raised from children to be a SoB.

Yes, but basically every imperial guard, male or female, that has a young daughter and dies gives a new candidate. Sure that means a huge recruitment pool.

 Envihon wrote:
And I would stand to argue, that the SM could replenish their numbers faster since they modify existing human adults.

I do not see how that helps. Provided the recruitment is constant rather than on-demand, it should not change anything.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
The section I quoted comes from GW's Inquisitor, not FFG.

Yes, from that rulebook that includes no Sister of Battle character, and does not talk anywhere about their armor. Then how is that relevant?

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
The only system which features Sisters statted out is Dark Heresy, which only has Space Marines as NPCs.

So, there are not stats for Sisters of Battle in Deathwatch, then?

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
However, in both systems, the Space Marines suits are heavier than the Sisters ones, and the Sisters is equivalent to the Dark Heresy game's "Light Power Armor" (albeit with a slight increase to its body armor rating), and the Space Marine armor is more powerful than the game's "regular" Power Armor.

I do not understand, did you not just say there was not stats for Sisters in Deathwatch? Or is the other system here Inquisitor?
So, apparently Dark Heresy has Sisters' power armor less protective than Marines power armor. I think this sucks, and I am starting to see why Sisters player tend to dislike it so much…

 Ashiraya wrote:
SoB have far more problems than is apparent with them.

Even if we go with their armour providing equal protection (Which is far from unambigious) then they are themselves still far more fragile. Blunt hits will still turn their organs to mush.

The same thing happens with marines tanking battle-cannon shots. Yes they have two hearts, that does not make those hearts suddenly capable of resisting better to blunt hits. It is all space techo-magic gimmicks.

Imperial Knights are more expensive than a SM, because it is a Titan vs. infantry, also with the interfacing of the Imperial Knight, the Knight armor and the pilot have to be compatible otherwise the pilot's brain gets fried in the process of imprinting on the Knight armor so there won't be a steady stream of recruits, oh and those recruits have to be a Noble from a Knight planet where the SM can recruit and make new Aspirants at a quicker rate than they can replace a Knight with. On top of that, if the Knight armor is totally destroyed, they have to contract a Forge World to make a new suit of Armor so Imperial Knights again have their place but it isn't the same as a SM.

I would venture to say that the SoB have a lower recruitment phase vs. SM. The SM Chapters can usually recruit pretty quickly, hell, the GK have first dibs on the psykers off the Black Ships and many of the SM their own planets to recruit from and they don't need to raise a child to make their new recruits.

Every force in the Imperium has it's place and all are needed at the right time for this whole machine to work well. It's why the Raven Guard kept their own AM for their planet and oversaw it during the Horus Heresy (I don't know about the modern era) but there are some things the AM can't do, there are some things the SoB can't do which is why we have how many armies represented on the table top? All them have distinct tactics and ways to play. The table top, despite not having an entirely balanced rules, has distinct play styles for the AM, SM, and SoB.