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JoeyHeadwounds wrote:

I'm not sure why, but I think this looks almost like some kind of robotic Tyranid.... Will be waiting for pics of the actual model as I think it might have some conversion potential.

Hey look at that! Same speculation when the Tomb Stalker came out last year. Funny how if something robotic has an insectoid appearance it immediately is labeled a Tyranid look alike...

Lord_Mortis wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:Also, a question for anyone with a codex...

What's the exact wording for the wraith upgrade that reduces an opponent's initiative? I want to know if they would be a good match for a unit of lychgard with warscythes...

Minus the fluff part, the rule is: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative value."


Picked my Codex up today!

Can you say Furious Charge, DENIED!!! (partially)

Infantry counts as 1 model, Jump Infantry as 2 and Jetbikes as 5 for transport in a Nightscythe.

Just getting that out there for everyone

Ruler of Chaos wrote:does that mean they roll to hit. then check to see how many of those hits causes the Armour to go down. Then they use there strength on the new lowered armour?

Unless the codex is very specific about the AV going down before or after the hit is resolved it's going to be an ugly debate.

If it does any vehicle that is hit on a 4+ or better is as good as wrecked as a mere 12 attacks=6 hits=3 points off rear armor= 6 str3 hits versus AV7 on the rear=the same as 6 str6 hits versus an av10 rear. That's only 12 attacks from scarabs, and they have what 3 or 4 attacks on the charge?

If the AV is lowered after the S3 hits are resolved the vehicle has 1 turn to live. A rhino with an AV8 in the front and side arc won't last long against the massive amount of S4 firepower in a necron army.

Was just thinking, tie up some enemies with wraiths and knock them down to initiative 1 with whip coils... then charge with 20 flayed ones = 80 attacks....

Lord_Mortis wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:Also, a question for anyone with a codex...

What's the exact wording for the wraith upgrade that reduces an opponent's initiative? I want to know if they would be a good match for a unit of lychgard with warscythes...

Minus the fluff part, the rule is: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative value."


Picked my Codex up today!

So...this means that if I assault an enemy unit of...say...Paladins with a unit of wraiths and a unit of Lychguard packing warscythes, any paladin in b2b contact with a wraith goes after the lychguard have attacked?

It's not something like "only if they attack the wraiths"?

THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!

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schadenfreude wrote:
If it does any vehicle that is hit on a 4+ or better is as good as wrecked as a mere 12 attacks=6 hits=3 points off rear armor= 6 str3 hits versus AV7 on the rear=the same as 6 str6 hits versus an av10 rear. That's only 12 attacks from scarabs, and they have what 3 or 4 attacks on the charge?

...actually...they have 5 on the assault...


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Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:
:O
Hooray for wording allowing abuse of C'Tan manifestation abilities!

What C'Tan? This is a wraith upgrade

Any word on frag grenades of any sort? I mean I2 it won't matter MUCH , but every little bit helps

The Cryptek's Gaze of Flame gives the unit assault and defense grenades. It's under Harbinger of Destruction.

asimo77 wrote:The Cryptek's Gaze of Flame gives the unit assault and defense grenades. It's under Harbinger of Destruction.

Is it also a lord upgrade?

Arandmoor wrote:What C'Tan? This is a wraith upgrade

Any C'Tan. Any one that takes the "roll under your Initiative or be sucked into oblivion" ability, anyway.
Wouldn'tve worked if the Whip Coils said "attacks as if its initiative was 1", but since it counts its initiative as 1, you can coil them up and then exile them to a cold abyssal void.

Arandmoor wrote:

asimo77 wrote:The Cryptek's Gaze of Flame gives the unit assault and defense grenades. It's under Harbinger of Destruction.

Is it also a lord upgrade?

No

Wraiths will certainly be useful, but remember that anything above 5 unit squad is going to be hard to get them all into being base to base with a Wraith itself. So you will still have people hiding in the second row striking at normal I. The fast attack slot is too contested to be able to take two small units of Wraiths to try max out on this I think.

Going to be at my FLGS first thing tomorrow morning, to buy the codex and run away to hide somewhere and read it

Three things, and I really hope some of you pay attention to this:

1. You cannot simply look at numbers and make judgments. Buy all the Grey Knights you want, if you are an idiot you will most often lose to the worst codex. Back when I was a WM/H nut there was a Cryx player in our group that lost every single game he ever played.

2. 6th edition is coming. NONE of us know what it will contain, damn the rumors. I bet that once it drops the same trolls will cry "OVERPOWERED NECRONS PLEASE NERF!!!shift111!"

3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.

Nightsbane wrote:
3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.

This I have to see.

So, um, yeah, wraiths are only init 2, they really suck now...

Also, I do like the idea of wraith/c'tan massive abuse, but paladins are doomsday ark fodder.

Nightsbane wrote:3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.

Its only the models in base contact, any tyranid player can tell you it makes little difference. The model not in base contact will crush the wraths at their normal initiative. I think the codex is great, but wraiths just are not good imo, especially if they dont get RP.

Doom Scythe:


Night Scythe:

These are awesome. I don't like the visible crew though; the flyer should be piloting itself. It can hopefully be fixed with a minor conversion though. Reminds me too much of this: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440291a&prodId=prod1090208

Triarch Stalker:

This looks interesting, but again, why is the pilot necessary?

Tomb Blade:

These look like cooler destroyers.

Canoptek Wraith:


Canoptek Spyder:

These two are my favourite units I've seen in this thread, could the second one be a replacement for the Tomb Spyder?

and the special Character Illuminor Szeras:

I take that back, THIS is my favourite ond. I would buy this character just to paint when it gets a model. A very original concept, though I hope he won't look too Egyptian... I really hope he would have the aesthetic of the old Necron Lord.


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I'd also hope that GW releases models for all of these units, i like the concepts much more than the first wave.

haroon wrote:but wraiths just are not good imo, especially if they dont get RP.

Wraiths are constructs, they do NOT get RP. The new Wraiths stat-line is very reasonable for 35 points. You don't throw these guys at high strength close combat units, they have better options. With rending they are even better at opening up transports than the old Wraiths were (they were effective), and with double the squad size and extra wound which makes up for not having RP, they can easily take on regular infantry and even tar pit other assault units that are not deathstars. Used in the right situations these new Wraiths are pretty good as I see it.

IRT Deathly Angel;

You could probably slip a deathmark head on that Cryptek Stalker, I agree it has the potential to be an damned awesome model that could be 'counts as' destroyer lord in friendly matches

I guess the vehicles need a pilot or they are then needing to be controlled by a local Tomb Spyder or the Tomb world mind itself? I do also think the Necron pilots on the command barge look out of place also, and will be modelling them so they are fused into the vehicle itself from the waist down. Could do the same for the stalker and flier, whats stopping them from winning the battle and putting their legs back on?

I guess I just don't see why the concept is so difficult... You don't throw wraiths at thick units you can't Btb, they are not assault termies, they are a pinpoint, defensive unit as I see them. Like the rest of the necron dex it is meant to be multiple threat rather than death star delivery. The whole point is making the enemy's butthole pucker over what they should kill.

Stick, move, and special ability.

That amount of forethought should be enough to completely befuddle 75% of MEQ players.

I guess the vehicles need a pilot or they are then needing to be controlled by a local Tomb Spyder or the Tomb world mind itself?

The point is why build a machine that needs a pilot/driver when you can build machines that dont (such as spiders, wraiths, scarabs and forgeworld tomb stalkers and pylons)

darkslife wrote:

Nightsbane wrote:
3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.

This I have to see.

So, um, yeah, wraiths are only init 2, they really suck now...

Also, I do like the idea of wraith/c'tan massive abuse, but paladins are doomsday ark fodder.

It's on now. When the universe ends you will have no one to blame but yourself. You will have plenty of time to think on it in your warrior shell for all eternity.

Sectiplave wrote:

haroon wrote:but wraiths just are not good imo, especially if they dont get RP.

Wraiths are constructs, they do NOT get RP. The new Wraiths stat-line is very reasonable for 35 points. You don't throw these guys at high strength close combat units, they have better options. With rending they are even better at opening up transports than the old Wraiths were (they were effective), and with double the squad size and extra wound which makes up for not having RP, they can easily take on regular infantry and even tar pit other assault units that are not deathstars. Used in the right situations these new Wraiths are pretty good as I see it.

Thats exactly the problem, another situational unit. You could make plenty of arguments on how mandrakes are good and dont "throw these guys at high strength close combat units" and how mandrakes are good in certain situations because of X, Y, Z but in the end they are just both bad units for the points imo.

Those necron flyers don't look like stargate, it's this all the way:

http://squaremodels.com/images/raider1.jpg

I've thought that since the first rumored sketch. Fits the theme much more than stargate too.

Sectiplave wrote:

Cool, that sounds like it should over ride any initiative boosting wargear or skills also

How so?

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Lord_Mortis wrote:

Minus the fluff part, the rule is: "Whilst any enemy model is in base contact with a model with whip coils they count their initiative value as 1, regardless of their actual initiative value."

That sounds like things that affect Initiative still work. For instance, Carnifexes - they would still receive their bonuses when they charge, because they are simply counting their "initiative value" as 1 (which it already is).\

It is reducing their "iniative value", not their actual initiative. A normal marine assaulting a Wraith would reduce his Iniative value to 1. Meaning he would have I1. Then, if he also had Furious Charge, he would take his Initiative Value and add 1.

Nightsbane wrote:3. The next one of you that posts about Wraiths being I2 and ignores the whip coils mentioned 2000 times a week, and I am going to devote the rest of my life to becoming an ancient space god to trick and enslave a race, and turn them into soulless T-100s to rid the entire universe of life. At that point it will have been worth it.

Why is this not in your sig yet?

Fixed

And Illuminor Szeras looks like Osmosis Jones.

Are vehicles 0-1? I heard at some point they were.

preatorians are fearless.

Ahhh damn you are right Puma, I read it wrong, +I stuff will indeed work :(

IRT Haroon;

I think there will be enough situations available for the new Wraiths that they will earn their keep. The only time I found the old Wraiths sitting around twiddling their 'thumbs' when I wasn't playing smart and thinking a turn ahead.

Looking at these units by themselves isn't really ideal for an army that needs to use synergy, like I said before the hardest part for this codex will be finding that right balance of units that work well together, I don't think Wraiths will be one of those units left out in the cold, but it really depends what else is going into the list.

Kurgash wrote:

JoeyHeadwounds wrote:

I'm not sure why, but I think this looks almost like some kind of robotic Tyranid.... Will be waiting for pics of the actual model as I think it might have some conversion potential.

Hey look at that! Same speculation when the Tomb Stalker came out last year. Funny how if something robotic has an insectoid appearance it immediately is labeled a Tyranid look alike...

Possibly because the picture is so similar to the artwork for The Red Terror. There's just slightly fewer teeth