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MiguelFelstone wrote:*hits the TURBO button on his 486 DX2

I was never brave enough to press that on my first computer, lol. I'm wierdly nostalgic for the c64 despite never using one. I grew up on two hours a week on the Apple II throughout the 80's (one hour at the public library on saturday and one hour in computer class a week).

1hadhq wrote:Can't wait!

Must experience the full glory of 8 bit too

soo ....where did I store the best of home computers ......

Basement, garage, or back of the closet would be the likeliest spots in my personal experience.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Hey, gang - there's a separate thread for the new Primaris leak. Let's keep that there, and keep this one for Psychic Awakening, eh?

Ok. You Tandy users are no fun!

286 to 386 w turbo blew my frickin mind! " you'll never need any more than that man" was the conversation with the salesman.


I'm looking forward to seeing what the Hell Fury's look like. Primaris Melta Squad!!!!! Hell yeah!

And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.

 bullyboy wrote:
And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.

If Blood of Baal was any indication it will be 20 pages of DA and 2 or 3 pages of GK content.

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.

If Blood of Baal was any indication it will be 20 pages of DA and 2 or 3 pages of GK content.

yeah, I get that (if true), but still astonished we haven't seen a single rule leak of any kind. Not a model (which we got), or fluff, but an actual, single rule.

yeah they are really holding it close.

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.

If Blood of Baal was any indication it will be 20 pages of DA and 2 or 3 pages of GK content.

lemme correct it for you.

"If blood of Bhaal was any indication it'll be 15 odd pages of reprints of phobos rules so dark angels offically have a source for them, then a page of relics, a page of new strats, a page of random names for each of the three factions"

 bullyboy wrote:

MiguelFelstone wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
And here we are, at the end of 2019, and not a single rule leak about this next book. What exactly are these factions getting? Usually something would have been leaked by now, the DA super doctrine, the Ravenwing/Deathwing benefits, Grey Knight doctrine....not a peep.

If Blood of Baal was any indication it will be 20 pages of DA and 2 or 3 pages of GK content.

yeah, I get that (if true), but still astonished we haven't seen a single rule leak of any kind. Not a model (which we got), or fluff, but an actual, single rule.

The AoS box & books are happening first, so they get priority.
'Real' leaks are likely to be along what Miguel suggests. Exactly what you'd expect but in Black* instead of Red

*yeah, yeah, and those other retcon colors.

Personally, I hope the Thousand Sons' current chapter tactic becomes their "Doctrine Bonus" (it is beyond dumb that GW is still withholding doctrine bonuses from CSM factions after also denying them the redesigned chapter tactics that also help vehicles...They're literally the exact same gak but now 1 Iron Hands predator can almost fight two Chaos Predators....) and the new traits are stuff that actually helps the whole army.

All this time people have been talking about giving marines CT's to their whole army, i've been here just like... "my chapter tactic affects 8 models in my 2,000pt MEQ army....and I run actual Rubrics as my troops..."

I think Sons might be the biggest winners from this supplement. 9 cabals and points rises both suggest good things coming their way. I would have said 'our' way a few years ago, but I grew tired of their extremely limited roster and playstyle, and mine have been gathering dust (honk) for a while now.

9 cults is worthless if what each cult gets is one trait and one stratagem.
Its insane if each cult is an army wide trait.

We got nothing to work with right now to judge what our means.

 grouchoben wrote:
I think Sons might be the biggest winners from this supplement. 9 cabals and points rises both suggest good things coming their way. I would have said 'our' way a few years ago, but I grew tired of their extremely limited roster and playstyle, and mine have been gathering dust (honk) for a while now.

with any luck that'll change for ya eh?

So Thousand Sons lose like 99% of their Legion in the Heresy, then almost all the remaining turn into automatons yet they go from 5 to 9 cults? Hmmm, seems that GW imo doesn't understand just how few TS are actually left. That assumes absolutely 0 casualties in Ten Thooooooooooossssssannd years (which based on normal marine combat deaths would be quite high)

 Kirasu wrote:
So Thousand Sons lose like 99% of their Legion in the Heresy, then almost all the remaining turn into automatons yet they go from 5 to 9 cults? Hmmm, seems that GW imo doesn't understand just how few TS are actually left. That assumes absolutely 0 casualties in Ten Thooooooooooossssssannd years (which based on normal marine combat deaths would be quite high)

That's true, but automatons are not necessarily a bad thing, the one unit the bugs me the most are the Psychic Dreadnoughts, Magnus literally designed them and now suddenly he can't make them anymore?
Also Prospero was brought back, with all the armouries and all, imagine how many models that could unlock...if only we were loyalists, the price of heresy is so steep

 Kirasu wrote:
So Thousand Sons lose like 99% of their Legion in the Heresy, then almost all the remaining turn into automatons yet they go from 5 to 9 cults? Hmmm, seems that GW imo doesn't understand just how few TS are actually left. That assumes absolutely 0 casualties in Ten Thooooooooooossssssannd years (which based on normal marine combat deaths would be quite high)

So... you know the fluff better than those who wrote it?

It looks like he might?

Of course, the background changes and evolves over time too.

Did it here?

 Kirasu wrote:
So Thousand Sons lose like 99% of their Legion in the Heresy, then almost all the remaining turn into automatons yet they go from 5 to 9 cults? Hmmm, seems that GW imo doesn't understand just how few TS are actually left. That assumes absolutely 0 casualties in Ten Thooooooooooossssssannd years (which based on normal marine combat deaths would be quite high)

that just suggests further splintering, Also chances are the 1k sons cults consist of more then just Marines, I bet a 1k son cult consists of some sorcs at the pinnacle, and then a buncha mortal cultists etc learning at their feet.

If you read 8th Thousand Son's Codex , they have upgraded by the thousands the number of sorcererrs, of rubrics, etc...

 Galas wrote:
If you read 8th Thousand Son's Codex , they have upgraded by the thousands the number of sorcererrs, of rubrics, etc...

keep in mind that the traitor legions never stopped recruiting, the death guard are bigger then their pre-heresy strength now.

Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.

 bullyboy wrote:
Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.

I belive in this case the dark angels didn't trust them but gave them a shot, and eventually.. they earned the trust, also no reason not to trust Primaris you have created yourselves

 bullyboy wrote:
Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.

If we're talking about the Lazarus story?

They're trusting a member of the Inner Circle who has now crossed the Rubicon Primaris. Remember that we have three "types" of Primaris:
1) The Awoken--these are the ones that Cawl had in stasis.
2) The Indoctrinated--these are the newly recruited individuals.
3) The Ascended--these are Shrike, Lazarus, Khan, etc. They're Astartes that have undergone the upgrades.

Lazarus was a member of the Inner Circle before becoming a Primaris. He's undergone the upgrades and is one of the Ascended, not the Awoken or Indoctrinated.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.

If we're talking about the Lazarus story?

They're trusting a member of the Inner Circle who has now crossed the Rubicon Primaris. Remember that we have three "types" of Primaris:
1) The Awoken--these are the ones that Cawl had in stasis.
2) The Indoctrinated--these are the newly recruited individuals.
3) The Ascended--these are Shrike, Lazarus, Khan, etc. They're Astartes that have undergone the upgrades.

Lazarus was a member of the Inner Circle before becoming a Primaris. He's undergone the upgrades and is one of the Ascended, not the Awoken or Indoctrinated.

Yup.
The DA's problem to begin with was not with the idea of primaris, it was with the outsiders that got sent in to "mingle in"
Lazzy was an insider to begin with. the fact he got primarised does not mean the DA are any less suspicious of Cawl's canned marines, or rowboat's recruitment drives.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.

If we're talking about the Lazarus story?

They're trusting a member of the Inner Circle who has now crossed the Rubicon Primaris. Remember that we have three "types" of Primaris:
1) The Awoken--these are the ones that Cawl had in stasis.
2) The Indoctrinated--these are the newly recruited individuals.
3) The Ascended--these are Shrike, Lazarus, Khan, etc. They're Astartes that have undergone the upgrades.

Lazarus was a member of the Inner Circle before becoming a Primaris. He's undergone the upgrades and is one of the Ascended, not the Awoken or Indoctrinated.

Yup.
The DA's problem to begin with was not with the idea of primaris, it was with the outsiders that got sent in to "mingle in"
Lazzy was an insider to begin with. the fact he got primarised does not mean the DA are any less suspicious of Cawl's canned marines, or rowboat's recruitment drives.

From what I read in that White Dwarf for Dark Angels, there was a small story about an Awokened Primaris Marine that had been at the very least considered for more secret stuff. They left it on a cliffhanger, and with GW saying Lazarus is the first Primaris in the inner circle, I can assume that the guy in the story didn’t make the cut, but he was at least considered.

But the story has Azrael stating to trust the new members, not just Lazarus (who is really one of them). To stop looking over their shoulders, and trying to keep things close and restricted, but instead to drive out against their enemies with full force, making those enemies tremble with the full force of the First legion.

"As our friends and enemies encircle us, we look upon fellow Dark Angels with distrust. Broken and bleeding, we reject those who have made oaths to our Chapter, some of whom are true sons of Caliban. Even amongst this most trusted gathering, a Master of our own stands as Primaris, his deeds enough to earn him a place within this circle, yet we still treat Primaris with inherent suspicion.!"


"No longer shall we be on the defensive, allowing our enemies to manoeuvre around us. No longer shall we be idle on our hunt, oblivious to what secrets run free. We shall strike out, hunt with scent or no, and remind our enemies why we are the First. Kindle the fire that burns within you, nurture it into a searing fury, and bring down retribution upon Magnus and his sorcerous legions for the destitution they have brought upon our Chapter."

Azrael knows that the only way to be victorious is to be less fractitious and strike with the full force of the Unforgiven. It's the only way the Chapter survives.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

From what I read in that White Dwarf for Dark Angels, there was a small story about an Awokened Primaris Marine that had been at the very least considered for more secret stuff. They left it on a cliffhanger, and with GW saying Lazarus is the first Primaris in the inner circle, I can assume that the guy in the story didn’t make the cut, but he was at least considered.

Don't forget, Lazarus was already Inner Circle before crossing the Rubicon Primaris. So it's not like they brought a Primaris into the Inner Circle, they took an Inner Circle member and had him cross the Rubicon to save his life.

 bullyboy wrote:
Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.

The thing is, they had a moment of division, a way to start differentiating the thirty-one flavors of marines (and wider divisions in the Imperium, such as Guilliman's secular practicality vs the 'traditional' Imperial religious zeal), and just... opted not to do that with anyone who had doubts about the primaris.

It was a plot point that just... didn't go anywhere, and went nowhere absurdly quickly, to the point that there was no reason to introduce it in the first place. 8th edition already picked up a century later in the timeline. At year 100 it was 'some still have doubts,' and now at maybe year 101ish, its all fine and good. They could have just said 'and a century later, everybody is fine with primaris' when they introduced them.

Voss wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Speaking of fluff, the DAs went from mistrusting Primaris to a full on acceptance endorsed by Azrael to the Inner Circle in recent PA story. And to be honest, I fully embrace it. Either you say they mistrust them and don't include the option for them in the army (too late), or they are embraced in their entirety.

The thing is, they had a moment of division, a way to start differentiating the thirty-one flavors of marines (and wider divisions in the Imperium, such as Guilliman's secular practicality vs the 'traditional' Imperial religious zeal), and just... opted not to do that with anyone who had doubts about the primaris.

It was a plot point that just... didn't go anywhere, and went nowhere absurdly quickly, to the point that there was no reason to introduce it in the first place. 8th edition already picked up a century later in the timeline. At year 100 it was 'some still have doubts,' and now at maybe year 101ish, its all fine and good. They could have just said 'and a century later, everybody is fine with primaris' when they introduced them.

Exactly. I was all for the DA distrust in the beginning, but if you're not going to follow that with rules, just get rid of that piece of fluff and move on. Of course GW were never going to restrict new marine sales to DAs, so why pretend there is a story there that may prevent DA from incorporating them.

I think Azreal's point is the Unforgiven no longer have the luxury of such mistrust and secrecy. Their options are trust or die.

"Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW

 Duskweaver wrote:
"Yeah, you know that interesting character trait that was one of the major defining features of this faction for seven editions? It was getting in the way of flogging new minis, so we got rid of it." - Someone at GW

Turning them into moping untrustworthy idiots obessed with the Fallen was the first step on their descent.