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Made in gb
Hardened Veteran Guardsman






Hiding in a ruined Chimera

So with the release of the eldar GW is becoming very predictable - a new army update every month - and it nearly always comes with a 2 in 1 flyer kit (the daemons are the only exception). And not only that, as they are rushing out new armies every month it seems that has been a lack of effort spent on them. For instance there hasn't been a realese nearly as good as the Dark Eldar, and to a lesser extent BA. So would you rather go back to the old style when therer was an army update every 3-4 months, but the armies had much better quality?

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 mattyrm wrote:
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What all did Eldar end up with new? Flier kit, plastic Wraithguard and that Wraith Knight? Anything else?

 
   
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I suppose though that the line didn't need such an extensive update like the DE needed.

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There are a few individual plastic minis in the release.

A larger scale Avatar in plastic would have put the argument to bed immediately. Rumours of new Aspect warriors were always doubtful.

I think, despite not being a big fan, Tau had a failry good release.

I like the fact they are updating for 6th at this pace as well because it keeps the haters from moaning about outdated codex.

Some people are never content though.

   
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 AduroT wrote:
What all did Eldar end up with new? Flier kit, plastic Wraithguard and that Wraith Knight? Anything else?


Some characters.



As a painter/modeler, I like the old way. You get all the new stuff in one lump, so if you want to swap bits it's easy, and everything has the same look.

From a gamer perspective, I like the new rapid-fire codex release. The 6th edition ones seem to have better balance, and will make the game a lot more fun when everyone has a modern codex. Having people trying to play the new game with an old book is not fun.

   
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Runnin up on ya.

Faster release schedule means the releases are not as comprehensive; it does allow GW to come back later and update some of those older model lines.

I also think they're avoiding leaving any units unrepresented in the releases because of the 3rd party companies out there filling in the gaps. GW doesn't like that (evidenced by the countless C&Ds and the Chapterhouse Lawsuit).

So overall I understand why they're doing it, based on the two points above, but I do have to say they could have done something better than just give each army a flier and a monstrous creature, update a metal line to plastic, toss in a couple of finecast characters ; wash, rinse, repeat. So I agree it has become bland.

I think we might see some splash releases later with add-on books (like the new eldar one); I wouldn't be surprised to see a Kroot add-on for example.

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 Nevelon wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
What all did Eldar end up with new? Flier kit, plastic Wraithguard and that Wraith Knight? Anything else?


Some characters.



As a painter/modeler, I like the old way. You get all the new stuff in one lump, so if you want to swap bits it's easy, and everything has the same look.

From a gamer perspective, I like the new rapid-fire codex release. The 6th edition ones seem to have better balance, and will make the game a lot more fun when everyone has a modern codex. Having people trying to play the new game with an old book is not fun.


I think the Ork dex and guard dex are doing just fine! Of course I would like to see more kit options made for artillery and update some seriously fugly models in the Ork range. Maybe modernize the Guard infantry range by bringing tallarn, mordian, and steel legion up to snuff and offering them in plastic would be a superb idea really and no soft versions of the commissars either. Though I love my limited edition female commissar just fine!

Don't get me started on my pewter Sisters. My army bag weighs about 25 pounds and that is only with 1 pewter exorcist tank on top of it all!

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funny, because a year ago everyone was whining that GW was updating the armies too slowly.

Can't please everyone all the time, I guess.
   
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Bland...perhaps. The release pattern is formulaic, but I greatly prefer it to the old, eon-spanning style. I don't think we have seen the plan in its entirety yet. Give it a year or two and see how they handle it then.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/26 15:17:35


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I think it's much better. The 6th edition books have been fairly well balanced, and at this rate we might have the most balanced 40k ever. Having the releases every 3-4 months makes for great droughts and glaring imbalances in the game.


I don't think we will see many releases like the DE again. The Dark Eldar had a woefully dreadful range and were unpopular. Most the ranges now, other than sisters, have a good core group of models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/26 15:25:48


 
   
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They might be lackluster for the moment, but you can't argue that having an ever increasing number of books fit with the current edition is a boon.

Who knows, as has been stated earlier, maybe later, once most books (except for Sisters, of course) have been updated, they'll do a few releases like a "Summer of Aspects Warriors." Or a "Fall of Guard regiments."

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
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I have a feeling that GW could include a free puppy and handjob with a new codex release and people would find some way to whine about that as well.

Not excusing GW's mistakes, mind you, but seriously, it is a seamless shift from "why does GW update so slowwww!" to "these quick regular updates are too predictableeee!"

 Ouze wrote:

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For years, GW only released 4 plastic kits per month. Now they release up to 4 plastic kits per month, massive increase indeed! Hope they can hold that pace

That said, I agree that almost all new releases are quite bland, unimaginative, predictable with lots of copy paste from existing kits.
The current company atmosphere is not supporting creativity and doesn't have feedback loops preventing the worst. Computers make actual copy-pasting easy (e.g. Blood Crushers and Slaanesh horses in different kits, Storm/Dark Talon, Stretch Land Speeder, SunShark/Piranha etc.).
In 40k you get one dual flyer, one large walker, one metal to plastic conversion with a dual unit pressed in plus maybe one new unit.
The walker is mostly a blown up smaller walker, the plastic Eldar character a near copy of an existing metal/Finecast model. All new unit concepts are done in less than 5 seconds ("Wraithknight").

The company is led by managers listening to lawyers, both telling designers how creativity has to work. Administration staff fires creative, production and sales staff to hire more administration staff (and waste millions on "proving" in court that GW invented halberds, shoulder pads and fur, not wasting any money on fads like advertising, giving money to shareholders like Tom Kirby instead of investing it).

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 Kroothawk wrote:

That said, I agree that almost all new releases are quite bland, unimaginative, predictable with lots of copy paste from existing kits.
The current company atmosphere is not supporting creativity and doesn't have feedback loops preventing the worst. Computers make actual copy-pasting easy (e.g. Blood Crushers and Slaanesh horses in different kits, Storm/Dark Talon, Stretch Land Speeder, SunShark/Piranha etc.).
In 40k you get one dual flyer, one large walker, one metal to plastic conversion with a dual unit pressed in plus maybe one new unit.
The walker is mostly a blown up smaller walker, the plastic Eldar character a near copy of an existing metal/Finecast model. All new unit concepts are done in less than 5 seconds ("Wraithknight").

This is what i mean, i like the pace they are realeasing things at, but i just found the eldar relases a bit on the bland side, especially when the tau riptide had been released over a month ago, and the eldar get a big walker thing (although the riptide is much cooler than the upgraded wraithlord)
Oh and they also admitted that they only did one concept art sketch for the wraithknight, showing they literally copy and pasting previous ideas

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 mattyrm wrote:
Yeah, I don't have PTSD after five combat tours, and frankly I'd rather get parachuted back into Helmand province armed with only a fething Nerf gun and my underpants than go into my local GW.
 
   
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Formulaic doesn't necessarily mean bland.

For example, while predictable, I think most, if not all, of the new Eldar stuff is pretty nice looking...

   
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It did rather seen that they wanted a monstrous creature slot to be filled and large based plastic model to match following the big Tau Riptide. That they didn't do a lot of concept art doesn't surprise me. What's the next 40k army coming? Who wants to bet they'll crowbar a MC into that too?
   
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 curran12 wrote:
I have a feeling that GW could include a free puppy and handjob with a new codex release and people would find some way to whine about that as well.

Not excusing GW's mistakes, mind you, but seriously, it is a seamless shift from "why does GW update so slowwww!" to "these quick regular updates are too predictableeee!"


Why would I want a puppy to gimme a handjob? And shouldn't that be pawjob? You're sick!

Well, I think the complaints are valid, especially considering that Elder will have to wait for the next cycle to get more update, wishing for new mould for their base troops, more interesting units than just anime robots, or flyers that aren't sanded down DE flyers, etc really isn't that unreasonable. Also, it isn't crazy to expect faster and interesting updates.

 
   
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 Kroothawk wrote:

In 40k you get one dual flyer, one large walker, one metal to plastic conversion with a dual unit pressed in plus maybe one new unit.
The walker is mostly a blown up smaller walker, the plastic Eldar character a near copy of an existing metal/Finecast model. All new unit concepts are done in less than 5 seconds ("Wraithknight").


But is this a bad thing? You make it out to be bad, but let's review it one more time:

- dual flyers: armies that doesn't already have flyers get flyers. As a Tau player I was very excited that we finally got some, and I imagine Eldar players would have been quite annoyed if they didn't get one.

- One metal to plastic conversion kit: Again, is this a bad thing? I know I loved the new Broadside models and I know a lot of people have been clamoring for a new Wraithguard plastic kit for years.

- Plastic character: I will give you that the Eldar plastic char. is weird. It's almost a direct copy of the old model... But for both Chaos and Tau the plastic model was amazing! So in general I would say plastic characters is also a good thing.

- One large walker (mostly a blown up smaller walker): Besides this release, when was the new walker model a "blown up smaller walker"? The Maulerfiend sure is new, and the Riptide - while a "suit" - doesn't look anything like its smaller brethren. So I really think the criticism about walkers is contained to this release, and not an overall problem.


One thing I do agree with is that there is very little new stuff in these releases. CC wraithguard, larger Crisis Suits and "better bikers" aren't really that original. Most of the originality seems to go towards the flyers and the centerpiece model - and that is a shame I think. I know that as a Tau player I was disappointed by the lack of new stuff in the release.

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 curran12 wrote:
I have a feeling that GW could include a free puppy and handjob with a new codex release and people would find some way to whine about that as well.

Not excusing GW's mistakes, mind you, but seriously, it is a seamless shift from "why does GW update so slowwww!" to "these quick regular updates are too predictableeee!"


Well, animals make terrible gifts, and in some states, the giving away of animals as prizes is illegal. And Has GW ever heard of sexual harassment?!? And of course offering only handjobs is sexist and discriminatory. Also, going by GW's stated target market, it would be grossly illegal.

Now, all hyperbole aside, the reasons GW does not offer free puppies and handjobs are largely similar to the reasons why GW should NOT do things like restrict product to indy retailers, file abusive legal claims that have no merit, demand that retailers do not sell online, etc. etc. etc. Such actions are as obviously wrong, illegal, illogical, and impractical as giving away free puppies and handjobs.

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 curran12 wrote:
I have a feeling that GW could include a free puppy and handjob with a new codex release and people would find some way to whine about that as well.

Not excusing GW's mistakes, mind you, but seriously, it is a seamless shift from "why does GW update so slowwww!" to "these quick regular updates are too predictableeee!"


Exactly. I played Dark Angels when they were hopelessly out of date, now they are one of the new books. I couldn't wait to see the update and I was pleased when I did.

But it seems like the needless whining will continue, whether too fast or too slow. The internet Goldilocks syndrome...
   
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 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I suppose though that the line didn't need such an extensive update like the DE needed.

I assume that you are being sarcastic. There are some 'current' Eldar units that date back to 2nd ed.

On a different note, I would not call the release bland. However, it is a small release, and the Eldar need lots of stuff. Plastic aspect warriors are needed to keep the cost of starting an army within reason. (Although with what GW is charging for the old Dire Avengers plastics, it seems that there is no hope.) I would have also liked to see kits for existing units such as exodites, rather than making up entirely new stuff. Eldar players have been waiting for exodites for nearly 20 years. They would have also fit in well with GWs push for big kits.


   
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 Alpharius wrote:
Formulaic doesn't necessarily mean bland.


Quite correct, but it does make it lazy.

I like the Wraithknight, so much so that I'm going to get one (and I don't really "play" Eldar, despite having about 4k points of them). It's still one of the laziest things to come out of GW in a while. Lazy concept, lazy name, lazy design, all made to fill the "big oval base release" tick-box on the new release checklist.


 Howard A Treesong wrote:
What's the next 40k army coming? Who wants to bet they'll crowbar a MC into that too?


Marines are next, so get ready for Dread Knight 2: The Dread-en-ing!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/26 21:56:45


   
Made in gb
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Lincolnshire, UK

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Formulaic doesn't necessarily mean bland.


Quite correct, but it does make it lazy.

I like the Wraithknight, so much so that I'm going to get one (and I don't really "play" Eldar, despite having about 4k points of them). It's still one of the laziest things to come out of GW in a while. Lazy concept, lazy name, lazy design, all made to fill the "big oval base release" tick-box on the new release checklist.


You're almost certainly the most well known GW critic on Dakka and are even now criticising the model, but you're still going to buy it?

It's your money, and different strokes for different folks, but, personally, that strikes me as odd...

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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Formulaic doesn't necessarily mean bland.


Quite correct, but it does make it lazy.

I like the Wraithknight, so much so that I'm going to get one (and I don't really "play" Eldar, despite having about 4k points of them). It's still one of the laziest things to come out of GW in a while. Lazy concept, lazy name, lazy design, all made to fill the "big oval base release" tick-box on the new release checklist.


 Howard A Treesong wrote:
What's the next 40k army coming? Who wants to bet they'll crowbar a MC into that too?


Marines are next, so get ready for Dread Knight 2: The Dread-en-ing!


Wasn't the rumour not for a big oval base but a halfway between terminator and dreadnought? A dread lite if you will?

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 Just Dave wrote:
It's your money, and different strokes for different folks, but, personally, that strikes me as odd...


What's odd about wanting to buy something I like? As I said, I like the Wraithknight. I think it's huge, impressive, has cool looking weapons and can be done in a lot of poses. It's still a lazy concept, design and name, and I'm sure that with a little less cut'n'paste and a little more effort they could've made a big-base release for the Eldar that didn't look like something they whipped up in a a 20 minute meeting. Doesn't make me like the model it any less.


 azreal13 wrote:
Wasn't the rumour not for a big oval base but a halfway between terminator and dreadnought? A dread lite if you will?


So... a KnightLite?

   
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 azreal13 wrote:


Wasn't the rumour not for a big oval base but a halfway between terminator and dreadnought? A dread lite if you will?


Gah. I hope that isn't true. I mean, I loooooove me some marines, but a tweener between those two just doesn't make sense.

I also hope they don't do any kind of monstrous creature BS. There's literally no precedent for it in any of marine fluff out there. I mean, I know there wasn't for the baby carrier either, but ick.

My hope for a new marine release, honestly, would be a plastic stern guard/vanguard kit, a plastic librarian kit, a plastic chappy kit ( for these two, I'm thinking a PA & TA combined kit like they do mounted/unmounted in fantasy), and I dunno what else. Can anyone think of anything from any BL stuff that would even make sense.

My biggest hope, however, is that the Wraithknight (which I really like) is the precursor for plastic Knight Titans.

 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's odd about wanting to buy something I like? As I said, I like the Wraithknight. I think it's huge, impressive, has cool looking weapons and can be done in a lot of poses. It's still a lazy concept, design and name, and I'm sure that with a little less cut'n'paste and a little more effort they could've made a big-base release for the Eldar that didn't look like something they whipped up in a a 20 minute meeting. Doesn't make me like the model it any less.


Buying a model you like isn't odd.

As I said, being so critical of the company and model, yet still purchasing from them is what strikes me as odd. Maybe that's just me...

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 Just Dave wrote:
As I said, being so critical of the company and model, yet still purchasing from them is what strikes me as odd. Maybe that's just me...


You're edging ever-so-dangerously close to the "If you don't like GW then stop playing 40K" line of illogical thinking.

   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Just Dave wrote:
As I said, being so critical of the company and model, yet still purchasing from them is what strikes me as odd. Maybe that's just me...


You're edging ever-so-dangerously close to the "If you don't like GW then stop playing 40K" line of illogical thinking.


No, he's trying to point out that, by purchasing the model, you're making a statement with your wallet that you're perfectly okay with "Lazy concept, lazy name, lazy design, all made to fill the "big oval base release" tick-box" and there is no reason for them to abandon said pattern. In fact, your purchase reinforces it.

It has nothing to do with not playing 40K, but not supporting decisions you don't support by buying into them.

Sort of like buying blood diamonds. No one said "Don't buy diamonds." Just that if you buy diamonds from blood-diamond merchants, then you're supporting what they're doing.

On-topic: While it remains to be seen what part of the plan the heightened release schedule is, I, for one, would love the old schedule back. It gave me time to really study a codex, break it down and enjoy it. I could play test it, decide if it was for me or not and then really understand every bit of the army. Now, as soon as I get a chance to really break down a codex, it seems that the next one is already on its way out.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/26 22:57:44


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Just Dave wrote:
As I said, being so critical of the company and model, yet still purchasing from them is what strikes me as odd. Maybe that's just me...


You're edging ever-so-dangerously close to the "If you don't like GW then stop playing 40K" line of illogical thinking.


You can call it what you like, but that's not my position nor my viewpoint: I was just pointing out the apparently contradictary stances.

On a wider scale (and combined with the Eldar reception) it suggests to me that GW's practices and "bland" releases continue to work...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/05/26 22:58:03


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"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
 
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