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 Padre wrote:
Two points...

1) I'm really glad it's Guy Haley writing the novel of Titandeath... Dan Abnett would be better, but anyone would be better than David Annandale - "Warlord" was atrocious...

2) So, um, do we have any actual AT or Titandeath news or rumours?

This Epic wish-listing is going a bit (like a lot) OT now...


Agreed. To be fair, the Blacklibrary Titandeath novel is probably the only news at this point, and seems to be kickstarting the whole AT: TD thing for the new year. Afterall, Blackstone Fortress has a BL novel for its release. I'd say once chrimbo is over we'll see something new for AT.

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The 2 other heads from the Lancer kit are of the Acheron and Castigator, look very likely now that they don't have plan to make plastic Acheron and Castigator. So Atrapos is next, hopefully come with all those goofy extra upgrade head.
   
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I think, strictly speaking, they're all Cerastus Knight heads, we just associate them with those variants as that's what the models ship with at full size.

Consequently it's still possible they'll get kits, maybe with some new designs or the previous Alt Cerastus heads, or perhaps a resin upgrade kit.

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Chopstick wrote:
The 2 other heads from the Lancer kit are of the Acheron and Castigator, look very likely now that they don't have plan to make plastic Acheron and Castigator. So Atrapos is next, hopefully come with all those goofy extra upgrade head.


I wish it was the Acastus Knight instead - that fella is packing some serious firepower!

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
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 Pacific wrote:

I doubt many of the original moulds have survived from previous versions, and a lot of the designs of things have changed.


They have tons of moulds from lot older surviving. You think GW has just decided to throw those into garbage bin for fun of it?

Blood Bowl, Necromunda, AT - all of these can be re-released with relatively few sculpts and in single boxset that people can pick up and play very quickly.


They could start epic easily with 1 infantry sprue redesigned. That's it. Rest they could actually utilize from previous moulds they have that would give them rhino's, land raiders, predators, dreadnoughts and all sort of other models.

One infantry sprue, rules. That's literally all they would HAVE to design.

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tneva82 wrote:
 Pacific wrote:

I doubt many of the original moulds have survived from previous versions, and a lot of the designs of things have changed.


They have tons of moulds from lot older surviving. You think GW has just decided to throw those into garbage bin for fun of it?


Yes. It's already happened.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

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Companies do it all the time. Noone could buy the molds for AT-43 and Confrontation age of Rag orok, as right after the Rackham went under they got destroyed.

I highly doubt GW has the molds from any Specialist game still.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/09 23:29:49




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Its not like they would use them even if they do still have the moulds. New AT is at a different and internally consistent scale unlike the old Epic lines. Not to mention the old plastic stuff would look pretty sub par compared to the modern models.
   
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For epic in the horus heresy era (where AT is set) they would only have to do marines. That's really not too hard to imagine. A sprue of marines and a rhino chassis would cover a large proportion of the list.

I'm not sure they'd want to do it like they did before, with a sprue containing basically every infantry model that existed. They could if they wanted though. A box of 3 felblades (say) would be roughly equivalent to a warhound box I think.

Not saying they will, or that they should, but it wouldn't be a really massive job.

Also, AT seems to be working as a game. There are only so many titans they can actually make. So what else can they do to milk the system? Marines seem the obvious next choice.
   
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
GW’s main Studio do, not Specialist Games.


People keep talking about this stuff as if it's a different company. They are departments of GW and even after investing heavily lately GW are still sitting on a Smaug-esque pile of cash, so if SG or FW or anyone else doesn't have the resources to do something it's because the company made a choice not to give them those resources, not because the resources aren't there. And yes, they're doing it to minimise risk which makes sense for them, but what's good for them is not necessarily optimal for us.

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GoatboyBeta wrote:
Its not like they would use them even if they do still have the moulds. New AT is at a different and internally consistent scale unlike the old Epic lines. Not to mention the old plastic stuff would look pretty sub par compared to the modern models.


The epic armageddon releases look like 40k ones and would be in same 6mm scale.

And again idea that gw throws in some moulds to trash is random theory not supported by evidence. They are pulling old oop models back to sale all the time

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Sure, they *could* do a "Space Marine"-style release. But the problem is that the original Epic ended up filling out the various armies. Stuff literally did not exist until Epic added it. Players were content with a gradual roll-out of units because that was the first we'd ever heard of those units (and even then, some of them - such as the Capitol Imperialis - never did get a model). And the fact that those things weren't available in 40K didn't matter because 40K was still much more heavily infantry-focused back then. Even the rules for vehicles hadn't been settled on at that point (anyone else remember the vehicle silhouettes in White Dwarf that you were supposed to use to determine where your shots hit?) But nowadays all of the stuff that was gradually rolled out in Epic has been available in 40K for quite a while. So if the Epic roll-out is Space Marines in Rhinos and Land Raiders, just like the original Epic, people are going to be whining about when they're going to get their Predators, or their Whirlwinds, or their Imperial Guard, or Chimeras, or...

I think you get the picture.

Will they eventually do Epic? I find it likely. But they can't just do a "roll-out the Space Marines, Rhinos, and Land Raiders only" release. That's akin to the "Warlords and Cerastus Knights only" logic that they followed for the AT2018 release, and they've gotten nothing but (well-deserved, imo) grief for that.
   
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Eumerin wrote:
Sure, they *could* do a "Space Marine"-style release. But the problem is that the original Epic ended up filling out the various armies. Stuff literally did not exist until Epic added it. Players were content with a gradual roll-out of units because that was the first we'd ever heard of those units (and even then, some of them - such as the Capitol Imperialis - never did get a model). And the fact that those things weren't available in 40K didn't matter because 40K was still much more heavily infantry-focused back then. Even the rules for vehicles hadn't been settled on at that point (anyone else remember the vehicle silhouettes in White Dwarf that you were supposed to use to determine where your shots hit?) But nowadays all of the stuff that was gradually rolled out in Epic has been available in 40K for quite a while. So if the Epic roll-out is Space Marines in Rhinos and Land Raiders, just like the original Epic, people are going to be whining about when they're going to get their Predators, or their Whirlwinds, or their Imperial Guard, or Chimeras, or...

I think you get the picture.

Will they eventually do Epic? I find it likely. But they can't just do a "roll-out the Space Marines, Rhinos, and Land Raiders only" release. That's akin to the "Warlords and Cerastus Knights only" logic that they followed for the AT2018 release, and they've gotten nothing but (well-deserved, imo) grief for that.


I want AT to stay focused on the titans. Adding infantry and most vehicles would dilute it, to the point where they become the focus, with titans simplified to fit.

There are some vehicles that it would be cool to see, however. Ordinatus have potential, as do detachments of things like Shadowswords, which in turn would give more uses for knights to hunt down these glass cannon type units.
   
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Guys, can we please take the Epic discussion to a topic of its own and have this one solely for Adeptus Titanicus please.



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Given the fairly steady rate of releases for SG I think there is a good chance that they have enough models planned to take them well into 2020.

We know next year there is a 2nd Reaver set on its way, as well as a separate release for the newest Warlords weapon sprue. After that here is the possibility of a third Warlord and Reaver, and separate releases for all the other weapon sprues as well.

Once the three classic engines are done then they can move onto the talked about "in between" types. We have already seen the first with the 40k scale Warbringer Nemesis. That adds at least three new engines along side Nemesis versions of both the new and existing types. Depending on the weapon compatibility they could double the amount of Titan kits for the game.

On top of all that the studio is(according to the last stream) looking at proper Choas Titans. There is the possibility of more new types of Titan as well as other variants. Not to mention the Imperator being the god engine in the room anytime GW talks about the game,and that's all without mentioning Knights and Xenos

Wether they come in GW plastic or FW resin it is IMO going to be a few years before they run out of little big stompy robots.
   
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Honestly they can just keep going. The Imperial line of titans and knights can just be continually expanded upon; whilst that also means for each Imperial you get at least one chaos equivalent plus demonic versions that are twisted monsters of their own.

The Xenos had less titans traditionally, but then they were never a huge focus and most of their titans came along with the original Epic so they were support rather than a primary focus of a whole game. I'm very sure that, given investment and time, they can churn out dozens of Eldar, Ork, Tyranid, Necron and perhaps one Tau titan

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As soon as they release weapons sprues individually and start releasing other races titans, I will buy. I don't really care if a Reaver can kill another Reaver etc. I do want to see how a Phantom Titan takes on a Bio-Titan or an Emperor Titan

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/10 10:38:28


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If Titandeath is at the end of the Horus Heresy, and the largest Titan battle fought, then GW will only have other races to left to explore.

Eldar and Orks being the obvious candidates. And lets face it, not every player's taste is the Imperium nor Chaos. Dammit! I am a 'Nid player! Unleash the swarm I say! Nom-nom-nom!

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There's a relevant question as to how non-Imperial Titans fit into the game they've constructed though. I'm not sure how Tyranids would work, or what value they'd bring to the table.
   
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Uh? Tyranid Titans are absurdly fast (though not hyper-agile like Eldar) and way more close combat focused than even Orks, though they do have decent guns. Plus they regenerate rather than use heavy shielding, and so on.
Thus they are a totally different tactical proposition to anyone else.
You might as well ask what value Tyranids bring to 40k as a game…

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My issue with Tyranids in Adeptus Titanicus specifically is ‘but where are all the little guys?’.

It’s purely a visual thing, and not really a solid reason for exclusion, but background wise I just can’t see Bio-Titans operating without the rest of the Swarm.

   
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From memory of 1st edition Adeptus Titanicus ...

Ork Gargants have more crude command & control than Imperial titans (rather than issuing Advance, First Fire or Charge orders as Imperial or Eldar titans did, Orks issued a speed and direction order, making htem more cumbersome to manoeuvre). They had more shields but couldn't repair downed shields, and had no weak points such as the plasma reactor or head - you just had to pile on sufficient critical damage to get the thing to stop. They also had unique weapons such as the belly gun's chainshot ammo - excellent fro one-shot-killing an unshielded titan, as you whip its legs out from under it.

Eldar were controlled much like Imperial titans, but were faster. Rather than void shields their save depends on how fast they moved in the previous turn, and provided minimal protection from blast weapons (that'd need tweaking, as otherwise volcano cannon rather than saturation missile barrages or gatling blaster salvoes would be the anti-Eldar weapon of choice)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
My issue with Tyranids in Adeptus Titanicus specifically is ‘but where are all the little guys?’.

It’s purely a visual thing, and not really a solid reason for exclusion, but background wise I just can’t see Bio-Titans operating without the rest of the Swarm.


The ground within x" of a bio-titan is considered dangerous terrain, due to the presence of swarms of tyranid infantry attacking other titans' feet and legs. On the other hand, by the time of the 41s millennium, Imperial titans aren't usually operating on their own either.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/10 14:32:29


 
   
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I'd be more curious what they do with scale should they get around to Tyranids. In the original Epic Hierodules were Warhound-sized while Hierophants were on par with a warlord. Their current 40k incarnations are more like Knights & Warhounds respectively. An official Hydraphant would sure be interesting.
   
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 Mr_Rose wrote:
Uh? Tyranid Titans are absurdly fast (though not hyper-agile like Eldar) and way more close combat focused than even Orks, though they do have decent guns. Plus they regenerate rather than use heavy shielding, and so on.
Thus they are a totally different tactical proposition to anyone else.
You might as well ask what value Tyranids bring to 40k as a game…

I'm thinking more mechanically how they'd fit into the space that AT18 lays out. I mean "hyper-agile" or whatever is a nice gloss, but it's not really as precise as saying, for example, that Tyranid and Eldar Titans would move like Knights, or follow the Knight rules for movement. I mean, I get what people want, but the hard part is making that work within the game rules.
   
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Eldar could get the classic ‘move, shoot, move’ thats often been their thing (well, Man’O’War and BFG), or just plain old greater manouvering. For instance, being able to split their allowed turns, so they can nip round corners with greater grace.

One thing Eldar would need is Weapons better suited to stripping shields. Pulse Lasers are their best option, but with how Shields now work, would need significantly more shots to be effective. Everything else they’ve got tends to be geared toward powerful one shot kills. Especially the Psycannon against MIUs (hard to be effective when they just boiled your crew’s brains).

Orks? Much easier. Course plotting in advance as noted, and general lack of decaying damage / reactor overheat.

Tyranids? Well, perhaps some kind of boarding rules, so you can hit an enemy Titan with say, a boarding spike or nasty spore delivery thing, and let the contents slowly chip away at them from the inside (or very quickly, if you just injected frenzied Genestealer into their superstructure).

The main thing is that not everyone needs a Warlord equivalent, or indeed representation in each broad class

   
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GoatboyBeta wrote:
Given the fairly steady rate of releases for SG I think there is a good chance that they have enough models planned to take them well into 2020.

We know next year there is a 2nd Reaver set on its way, as well as a separate release for the newest Warlords weapon sprue. After that here is the possibility of a third Warlord and Reaver, and separate releases for all the other weapon sprues as well.

Once the three classic engines are done then they can move onto the talked about "in between" types. We have already seen the first with the 40k scale Warbringer Nemesis. That adds at least three new engines along side Nemesis versions of both the new and existing types. Depending on the weapon compatibility they could double the amount of Titan kits for the game.


The Rapier class -- a scout Titan smaller than a Warhound and possibly the predecessor to the old Slaaneshi titans -- is mentioned in Titandeath. Also don't forget about variants like Ordo Sinister.

They have a LOT more they can mine before they get to xenos. People who want xenos should probably get busy modding, because they're going to be waiting a while IMO.

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If I was to imagine what they would be

Eldar- Titans have no arc/move like imperial knights, have half the amount of armour and hull points so are fragile, but either get better starting shield saves, or come with a 4+ void set but always have a 5-6+ chance to dodge shots. Fast, most titans are around warhound speed

Tyranids- No voids, titans are smaller on average (hide more easily) instead of voids they get a combination of 2x amount of hull, and naturally regen those hull points naturally, maybe some corrosion gimick on their guns, they ignore difficult terrain, and can maybe climb some buildings. I think they would work best with maybe getting the only flying titans, and alot of monsters at just below knight size, this would give a target for strength 3 guns and the inferno guns to be good against .

Orks- Worse void shields but large hull point value but lower armour value (weaker guns damage them easily but takes way more shots) but have the old ramshackle rule where you might have hit something non vital/they hold together better than they should, this could be basically a fnp against crits. Huge amount of low strength guns + CC, pretty slow and huge gretchin crews for repairs

For future/split of imperium and chaos titans
-Chaos get mutations, marks of chaos gods and maybe some mini greater daemons that work like knights
-imperium get access to mechanicum knights+ some experimental guns. To make up for lack of variety that chaos will get they might get access to crew and armour improvements to represent disciplined veterans.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/10 15:44:28


 
   
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 gorgon wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
Given the fairly steady rate of releases for SG I think there is a good chance that they have enough models planned to take them well into 2020.

We know next year there is a 2nd Reaver set on its way, as well as a separate release for the newest Warlords weapon sprue. After that here is the possibility of a third Warlord and Reaver, and separate releases for all the other weapon sprues as well.

Once the three classic engines are done then they can move onto the talked about "in between" types. We have already seen the first with the 40k scale Warbringer Nemesis. That adds at least three new engines along side Nemesis versions of both the new and existing types. Depending on the weapon compatibility they could double the amount of Titan kits for the game.


The Rapier class -- a scout Titan smaller than a Warhound and possibly the predecessor to the old Slaaneshi titans -- is mentioned in Titandeath. Also don't forget about variants like Ordo Sinister.

They have a LOT more they can mine before they get to xenos. People who want xenos should probably get busy modding, because they're going to be waiting a while IMO.


There is mention of "Codex Titanicus II" in the original Epic Space Marine rulebook from 1989. A long while back, someone on Warseer (I forget who) managed to tease out some info during a Games Day of some Titan classes that were to make an appearance in Codex Titanicus 2:

Atlas Class Titan - a testbed Titan used by the Diviso Investigatus for testing new technologies
Legatus Class Command Titan
Vulcan Class Labour Titan


No idea how true these are or whether they'll make an appearance, but it infers they've probably got a few ideas for different Titan classes sat in dusty boxes...

EDIT:
Found it - back from the heady days of 2005:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?13356-Titan-Legions-So-what-do-you-know&p=365373&viewfull=1#post365373


Interesting on how he describes the Titans:

This [Legatus] Titan would have had heavier armor, a better engine, and a dedicated command center where you could have put your Titan Legion Grand Master, Space Marine Chapter Master or Imperial Guard Colonel to direct the battle. It was supposed to give bonuses in command radius and other benefits to your army. Kinda similar to the Capitol Imperialis in Epic.

As for the Atlas, I disagree. Most forge worlds would certainly be powerful enough to have one or two, Mars probably has a legion of them, but the very largest of the forge worlds such as Hydraphur or Bakka might also have a legion of them too.

As for the Vulcan, as far as I understood the conversation, it never got out of the concept stage. My personnal take on it (so take it with a grain of salt)
would be that the Titan would have lots of close combat weapons such as wrecking balls or diggers and be able to transport troops (workers) through the ash and chemical wastelands on forge worlds.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/12/10 16:02:16


 
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Eldar could get the classic ‘move, shoot, move’ thats often been their thing (well, Man’O’War and BFG), or just plain old greater manouvering. For instance, being able to split their allowed turns, so they can nip round corners with greater grace.

One thing Eldar would need is Weapons better suited to stripping shields. Pulse Lasers are their best option, but with how Shields now work, would need significantly more shots to be effective. Everything else they’ve got tends to be geared toward powerful one shot kills. Especially the Psycannon against MIUs (hard to be effective when they just boiled your crew’s brains).

Orks? Much easier. Course plotting in advance as noted, and general lack of decaying damage / reactor overheat.

Tyranids? Well, perhaps some kind of boarding rules, so you can hit an enemy Titan with say, a boarding spike or nasty spore delivery thing, and let the contents slowly chip away at them from the inside (or very quickly, if you just injected frenzied Genestealer into their superstructure).

The main thing is that not everyone needs a Warlord equivalent, or indeed representation in each broad class


I could see vibro-cannons ignoring shields and targeting the legs, and don't forget the wing-mounted missile launchers. Plus, Forge World added a honkin' great sword (tm), so I'm sure there's more things they could add. some sort of giant web spinner (something added to the Eldar arsenal long after the Phantom titan model and all its arms were sculpted), or a crystal prism cannon with multiple fire modes?
   
 
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