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Can the Tau handle another Imperial Crusade? And not like the previous Damocles Gulf Crusade, which was quite tiny and a rather pitiful excuse for a 'crusade'; a real Imperial Crusade, one focused entirely on the Tau (unlike in the Jericho Reach where they're spread out fighting multiple factions). And likewise, the Tau aren't distracted by other factions.

I think that even with the Tau's superior technology, if the Imperium devoted its full resources to a crusade against them, simple numbers would mean that the Tau would stand little chance.

This is my opinion though of course.

 rohansoldier wrote:
I think that even with the Tau's superior technology, if the Imperium devoted its full resources to a crusade against them, simple numbers would mean that the Tau would stand little chance.

This is my opinion though of course.

I didn't mean the entire Imperium you know

The Imperium is so big and has so many enemies that it is absolutely impossible that it can concentrate solely on the Tau. What I do mean, however, is a standard or higher-scale Imperial Crusade.

Still fantasizing about a Tau genocide, Admiral?

 Kroothawk wrote:
Still fantasizing about a Tau genocide, Admiral?

No; just a good ol'fashioned crusade and not the pathetic excuses for 'crusades' these days

The Imperium is in much worse shape than it was during the Damocles Crusade. Between the Tyranids, Orks, Necrons, and Chaos the Imperium of Man has suffered massive set backs with little more than Pyrrhic victories. If it threw that much at a minor problem like the Tau Empire, it would find swathes of itself being overwhelmed by much more threatening Xenos and heretics.

Honestly, if the imperium felt like getting off its butt and dedicated "repel the 13th black crusade" levels of manpower to the back side of nowhere (seriously, both Terra and the eye of terror are on the far side of the galaxy.) the Tau Empire would go "splat" like a grape.

That said, if they did that then they'd probably get destroyed by all the other stuff they've been holding off with all those soldiers which are suddenly fighting the Tau.

And I'm betting that Tau could hold off a pretty serious invasion, now they've started to realize how big the galaxy is and are gearing up for the long haul. They'd cause the imperium quite a headache before they went away. And even then they might just practice the Tau way of war on a grand scale and evacuate their entire empire, or at least as much of it as feasibly possible, subsequently going into hiding among the stars until the time is right for them to strike again and reclaim their birthright.

Ah, but those poor bastards are nowhere near of technological level that Imperium can muster if it would be hard-pressed.

In any way, no. Tau is at the state of collapse. Wars of Dakka resulted in stalemate. For a limited and finite empire that is a disaster. Tau are at the edge of galaxy where worlds are far less defended. Due to that, Tyranid presence is strongest there and no matter outcome of wars with Orks, Tau will be destroyed by Tyranids. It was all part of Imperium's plan.


Imperium could easily crush Tau alone. Democles crusade was at a pitiful scale where Imperium's main trait, main strength have even didin't come into play. Also, Democles crusade could have resulted in far greater gains for the Imperium if they would have not underestimated those xenos in a first place. I think, Imperium's failure to combat them is due to the fact of underestimation of them. Democles crusade's main failures was purely due that. Tau's successful attacks on the Imperium was only successful due to ruses (sacrificing worlds to attract Imperial presence). I fear that Tau only managed to get Imperium's respect and orks recommendation as being able to create a good fight and that's a terrible news for this empire.

When was the "last Real Crusade" the IoM launched, and was on the offensive, and not reacting to Tyranids, Necrons, Orks, Chaos...it seems all the Imperium is capable now is large reactionary combat operations, the Tau frontier is the only one that seems to permit the IoM to even try to go on the offensive, due to the more passive nature of the Tau empire.

But seeing how incredibly dangerous the Tau are to the imperium at large I am sure they would be happy to divert any and all means to eradicate them, at the small cost of what ever planets/systems that would fall to any of the other various threats that strip planets bare or kill all the life of imperial worlds...the logical thing for the Imperium to do would to be to make the Tau frontier a less hostile one , with some form of limited alliance..since this is one of the only races that actually will make alliances.

But oh well, that's not how the IoM rolls..easier to just fight everyone

The may want to move the Necrons up a bit more on the Threat chart since in the new FW book, the Cron's conquered something like a 100 planets in a course of a few months...may want to point the conquest/ offensive fantasies that direction...oh but wait, the necrons are a little to nasty huh.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
When was the "last Real Crusade" the IoM launched, and was on the offensive, and not reacting to Tyranids, Necrons, Orks, Chaos...it seems all the Imperium is capable now is large reactionary combat operations, the Tau frontier is the only one that seems to permit the IoM to even try to go on the offensive, due to the more passive nature of the Tau empire.

I want to say the Sabbot Worlds Crusade (the Gaunt's Ghost series)

but that was still a long time ago. (like M41.700s)

It's Sabbath Worlds.

Sabbat actually.

The Imperium as it stands is a dying entity. The Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Chaos are pressing into it like never before and the entire organization seems like it'd collapse if another threat on the level of the big four enemies popped up.

 Kain wrote:
The Imperium as it stands is a dying entity. The Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Chaos are pressing into it like never before and the entire organization seems like it'd collapse if another threat on the level of the big four enemies popped up.

Don't underestimate the Humans. I don't like the way the post-Heresy Imperium is like and how it does things, but it gets gak done with regards to Humanity's future. They may surprise us yet.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Imperium as it stands is a dying entity. The Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Chaos are pressing into it like never before and the entire organization seems like it'd collapse if another threat on the level of the big four enemies popped up.

Don't underestimate the Humans. I don't like the way the post-Heresy Imperium is like and how it does things, but it gets gak done with regards to Humanity's future. They may surprise us yet.

Well Chaos is largely made out of humanity since all the major xenos races seem to have a great deal of protection and nobody cares about minor xenos.

 Kain wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Imperium as it stands is a dying entity. The Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Chaos are pressing into it like never before and the entire organization seems like it'd collapse if another threat on the level of the big four enemies popped up.

Don't underestimate the Humans. I don't like the way the post-Heresy Imperium is like and how it does things, but it gets gak done with regards to Humanity's future. They may surprise us yet.

Well Chaos is largely made out of humanity since all the major xenos races seem to have a great deal of protection and nobody cares about minor xenos.

Most Humans march under the Imperial Eagle though

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Kain wrote:
The Imperium as it stands is a dying entity. The Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, and Chaos are pressing into it like never before and the entire organization seems like it'd collapse if another threat on the level of the big four enemies popped up.

Don't underestimate the Humans. I don't like the way the post-Heresy Imperium is like and how it does things, but it gets gak done with regards to Humanity's future. They may surprise us yet.

Well Chaos is largely made out of humanity since all the major xenos races seem to have a great deal of protection and nobody cares about minor xenos.

Most Humans march under the Imperial Eagle though

True but the Imperial Eagle doesn't look like it could handle one or two more threats on the scale of the big four emerging suddenly.

That's why the Imperium is the Determinator of the setting.

That kind of Imperium do you imagine then talking about crusade to Tau's space? Hypothetical with free forces to spare or realistic one?

The real issue is: can the Imperium even waste its time by launching such an operation? Would it destroy itself in the process considering the situations with the 13th Black Crusade, Armageddon, and Tyranids?

Imperium doesn't have infinite resources.

With the Imperium, I feel they could conquer any enemy faction easily if it were to put its full resources into it, bar the Tyranids and Black Crusade. The Eldar are in too short supply to fight the entire Imperium, the Dark Eldar wouldn't waste their time trying, except perhaps to aid Eldar to keep the race alive. Orks would eventualy be crushed under the Space Marines, and burned into inexistance. Tau would be flattened in weeks.

The Black Crusade would be a challenge but I am confidnt the maneuvering room and spatial firepower. Sure the Blackstones and Planet Killer can blow stuff up but eventually unending fire will see them go bye bye. Particularly if the Eldar are not yet destroyed as they would help, as would Tau if the Imperium struck a deal, and Orks if the could stay still long enough to make an offer of the greatest fight ever.

The Nids, well, there is more of them and then can just adapt to beat Imperial stuff.

That theory of balance is simply not true.
Eldar and dark eldar would simply avoid Imperium's search parties.
Orks cannot be destroyed, only suppressed.
Not all Tyranids fleets are even in this galaxy yet.
Chaos is protected by eye of terror.
Necrons are either hiding (sleeping) or creating havoc with their super-advanced fleets. Even though, Imperium could still cause immense damage to their race if not outright destroying it if they would be focused same way as chaos is and prioritised over them.
Tau are just a minor nuisance. They are GW's money makers and due to that, they get special treatment. In reality, they are not so promising and dangerous as some other minor races are.

 Deadshot wrote:
With the Imperium, I feel they could conquer any enemy faction easily if it were to put its full resources into it, bar the Tyranids and Black Crusade. The Eldar are in too short supply to fight the entire Imperium, the Dark Eldar wouldn't waste their time trying, except perhaps to aid Eldar to keep the race alive. Orks would eventualy be crushed under the Space Marines, and burned into inexistance. Tau would be flattened in weeks.

The Black Crusade would be a challenge but I am confidnt the maneuvering room and spatial firepower. Sure the Blackstones and Planet Killer can blow stuff up but eventually unending fire will see them go bye bye. Particularly if the Eldar are not yet destroyed as they would help, as would Tau if the Imperium struck a deal, and Orks if the could stay still long enough to make an offer of the greatest fight ever.

The Nids, well, there is more of them and then can just adapt to beat Imperial stuff.

The Necrons both potentially outnumber and ludicrously outgun the Imperium of man in space, and if the Imperium can't land any troops due to the Necrons wiping out all their spaceships, they can't do anything. As for the Orks? The Imperium under the Emperor couldn't make a dent in the Orkoid population. There are more Orks than there are lasgun shots to shoot at them.

The Necrons outgun the Imperium so badly in space that a small Necron fleet absolutely mopped the floor with a large imperial fleet without taking any casualties. And with their inertialess drives back, the necrons can simply just hop around the galaxy and strike wherever the Imperium is at it's weakest with minimal losses.

They could for example, raze all the agri-worlds feeding terra and let the capital of the Imperium literally starve to death.

The Necrons, however, are not a unified threat. Many Dynasties possess no space-based technologies at all, and instead can secure only a single planet, or a small number of worlds (perhaps ones that are exceptionally far-flung) through the use of their Dolmen Gates.

GW has, though, painted themselves into a corner with the Necrons, however, especially with the fluff regarding their space technology. There's little conceivable way that the Necrons lose to anything in space. At all. Given their firepower and resilience, a couple Necron fleets could devour an entire Hive Fleet, all the way back to its point of origin.

 Krellnus wrote:
Sabbat actually.

thank you both for the correction

I'm sure the Tau could use some just as planed ickery to get some orks or other races to intercept. not on eldar levels but possibly enough.

but in a vacuum the Tau would be utterly stomped.

The Point of the matter is, if the Imperium places threat priorities upon its targets, and assigns forces in a manner relative to this, the last several offensives against the Tau are a indicator of its commitment to the Tau "Threat".

Damocles was the first, then Taros, then Zeist , and the zeist campaign has been penned in broad strokes, in the C:SM it was a overwhelming marine victory, and in the Tau codex it went exactly "according to plan" so read into that as you will.

And seeing as to according to GW doctrine the Tau have met and battled every major race in the 40k franchise (to establish "realistic" reasons for any army to fight any other at any time ), I would say the forces required by the Imperium to fully destroy the Tau empire is not cost/threat/transport realistic, so small (in the scope of the Imperium) reactionary strikes and small crusades will be the order of the day for the IoM.

In the Taro's campaign it seemed the major stumbling block for the IoM forces was a lack of transports available, they had to ferry several regiments to the battle zone after the initial invasion and lost a entire regiment (the 8th Brimstone Dragoons) due to commerce raiders, so it may be that the biggest problem facing imperial planners is not how many troops they have..its getting them where they need them.

But at any rate, my Tau stand ready and eager to whup on any invaders butts, and have been doing quite well lately

None can withstand a crusade of faith and rage.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
None can withstand a crusade of faith and rage.

Helbrecht's crusade of wrath against Hive Fleet Leviathan seems to be going pretty badly for him.

Eh they tau will get a Crusade agianst them sooner or later. While they don't appear to be a threat now, thier means of productions are now over the top, To make their newest battlehips takes them roughly a year or two to manufacture, while the Imperial counterpart takes many decades to a century to manufacture. They are becoming a larger threat rather increasingly,