Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

DrunkenSamurai wrote:I have finished my project and started a new thread for those that are interested.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/249508.page

Thanks!

Okay, those turned out nice. I may now get a pack.

Weird, I thought I was banned for a month. Turns out it was 3 days and I just couldn't view the PM through the banning .

I figure I might as well toss my hat in. I really don't think its right to place the blame on the manufacturers of this product. Games workshop quality control should have been present when the initial prototype molds were cast, they should have been present when the boxes of poor quality started piling up, and they should have been present when it all went to packaging. Its further compounded by the fact that the incorrect product (Not just misleading but incorrect as it was not in fact modified, rather it wasn't even the product being sold or packaged) was used in all forms of advertisement.

GW really went out of its way to make a cheap buck here, this is pretty unforgivable for a company that is supposed to pride itself on its plastic moulding quality and technology. Maybe they had Robin Cruddace Mold it.

In the absence of GW greed-mongering things like the recent price hikes across the board, it's possible that the Chinese could have unilaterally changed production, but extremely unlikely.

Luna's scenario is the most likely, rather than some bait-and-switch.

Chinese factories will make products at whatever level of quality you pay them to.

The idea that GW didn't OK the change to simplified vacuformed stuff is completely ludicrous.

GW asked for the cheapest facsimile of the master, and they got it. GW is taking the extra margin right to Tom Kirby's yacht.

Xyxox wrote:Okay, those turned out nice. I may now get a pack.

Meh. The details are still amazingly soft as Panic has pointed out with different pics.

JohnHwangDD wrote:In the absence of GW greed-mongering things like the recent price hikes across the board, it's possible that the Chinese could have unilaterally changed production, but extremely unlikely.

Luna's scenario is the most likely, rather than some bait-and-switch.

Chinese factories will make products at whatever level of quality you pay them to.

The idea that GW didn't OK the change to simplified vacuformed stuff is completely ludicrous.

GW asked for the cheapest facsimile of the master, and they got it. GW is taking the extra margin right to Tom Kirby's yacht.

I agree with John here I just cant imagine the situation being as simple as GW tried but to no avail, either way it reflects poorly on GW. I don't know the manufacturers name, nor do I think it matters really. I also have a hard time believing that the Chinese government would look kindly upon manufacturers that put a tarnish on their reputation, it just doesn't add up.

Breotan wrote:

Xyxox wrote:Okay, those turned out nice. I may now get a pack.

Meh. The details are still amazingly soft as Panic has pointed out with different pics.

Yes, but it's only $5 per piece, so you're getting what you pay for and it's now shown a decent enough paint job makes up for the lack of detail.

...wow, seriously? How much are the craters they advertised worth then? If the gakky vac-formed ones we got are worth $5 a piece then the resin masters must be worth $20 each.

That's a lot of money to ask for a fething crater.

Anyway, I dunno, I think the ones shown in the pictures would have almost been worth $20. There's no way the ones they released even come close, I don't care how much table space they cover up, they're flimsy as hell and look like garbage. I'm sorry, even the ones that were painted up look bad, you did a good job and all but you're still painting a turd.

insaniak wrote:Or, in other words, that the standard 'bait with a nice prototype before making incredibly dodgy production versions' that has caught out other companies looking into cheap Chinese production in the past is a far more likely scenario than the one suggested by Luna.

Oh, ok. Well in that case, yes, I agree with you.

Though as Shummy said (HI SHUMMY! I MISSED YOU!!!!!!!!!), I can't imagine that GW shipped them sight-unseen to the shops. They had to've seen that they weren't like the originals, but still went ahead and sold them anyway.

Butthurt Thread no.1
Its simple.
1. Buy Product from GW
2. Product from GW differs from advertised product.
3. Return product to GW, recive reimbursement.
4. ????
5. PROFIT!!!


Why does it have to turn into some BASH GW feast?
Every new post with whining included adds a big throbbing vein in my forehead.

Then don't read the thread.

Bla_Ze, your post is a violation of Rule #1 (click the link in my sig if you're curious), which is Be Polite.

Please keep it civil in the future.

JohnHwangDD wrote:In the absence of GW greed-mongering things like the recent price hikes across the board, it's possible that the Chinese could have unilaterally changed production, but extremely unlikely.

Luna's scenario is the most likely, rather than some bait-and-switch.

Chinese factories will make products at whatever level of quality you pay them to.

The idea that GW didn't OK the change to simplified vacuformed stuff is completely ludicrous.

GW asked for the cheapest facsimile of the master, and they got it. GW is taking the extra margin right to Tom Kirby's yacht.

This is so true. When I worked in China this was often the case. If you got a lower price from the Chinese, you get a part that was equally diminished in quality. The company I worked for had several others and I there exclusively to make sure this happened as little as possible. GW I doubt has even sent a production manager or engineer to check on how those things go.

In the end GW is responsible for the product. They will take the blame for selling crappy stuff.

I Shuma.

...cheese, heart, same thing.

Why does it have to turn into some BASH GW feast?

I take it you haven't read the rest of the thread then, otherwise you'd understand perfectly why some people might be a tad miffed at pre-ordering a product and then receiving what almost looks like an entirely different product altogether.

Sure, everyone that's gotten a refund now should be happy and there's no reason to keep lambasting them after they've apparently tried to correct the mistake, but that's the internet, get used to it. Except for HBMC in my opinion, I'd hate it too if some staff member got an attitude with me and tried to shove a stupid disclaimer in my face like that. If you're going to pull that kinda crap then technically you could get away with anything!

"Got bloodletters in your box of tactical Marines? *shoves a White Dwarf in your face* MODELS MAY DIFFER FROM THOSE SHOWN, donkey-cave!"

Sidstyler wrote:...wow, seriously? How much are the craters they advertised worth then? If the gakky vac-formed ones we got are worth $5 a piece then the resin masters must be worth $20 each.

That's a lot of money to ask for a fething crater.

Anyway, I dunno, I think the ones shown in the pictures would have almost been worth $20. There's no way the ones they released even come close, I don't care how much table space they cover up, they're flimsy as hell and look like garbage. I'm sorry, even the ones that were painted up look bad, you did a good job and all but you're still painting a turd.

Don't like'm, don't buy'em. Seems simple to me. But while you have be whining I have created (what I think to be) some nice terrain pieces.

Hey, how I choose to spend my time is my business!

That said, I'd be making good terrain, too, if I was allowed to run a jigsaw at midnight without someone calling the cops.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Though as Shummy said (HI SHUMMY! I MISSED YOU!!!!!!!!!), I can't imagine that GW shipped them sight-unseen to the shops. They had to've seen that they weren't like the originals, but still went ahead and sold them anyway.

Yup... at least when this happened to Mongoose, they put out a statement mentioning that the production models they had seen just before release had turned out to be not up to the standard of the prototypes. Of course, they still tried to talk them up, but they were committed to releasing by that point as they had put so much cash into it. Or so the story goes.

Somebody at GW has seen these and approved them. Not mentioning that the final product in fact was a far lower quality than the images shown to advertise them is dodgy at best.

It's interesting that all the defenders of GW on this post appear to be taking great offense at the people critising GW's latest release, throwing comments out like "don't but it if you don't like it". This is a valid point, but I don't really think you can apply it to this debate, if it was on pricing then fair enough.

My point is this, the pictures of this product reveal that the finished item is sub-standard. I'm hoping that both GW haters & lovers can agree on this. If not I think you need your eyes tested to be honest. Now the GW fans point out that FW will give you a full refund if not happy with the product, which is fair enough. However the point is, they shouldn't of released them fullstop. Someone either saw a finished production example and was duped, the actual production run was worse, or they knew this was what is was going to look like and ok'd it straight from the start. Either way it was out of order.

To compound it they throw in the old disclaimer statement, and if I understand this correctly, use the "master" images on the packaging. Then to finish it all off, they charge a silly price for something that is sub standard and would of cost pittance to make.

The feeling you get is GW was trying it on from the start. As I've mentioned before, just because GW gives you a refund it doesn't mean that they weren't cynically exploiting you in the first place.

Yeah, how can you honestly say "Don't buy it if you don't like it" to those people who pre-ordered them based solely on the pictures whored out by GW of what was supposedly the actual product?

Vac form is used for a lot of items which need to be cheap and light but don't require sharp detail. The blister cards pills are packed in are an obvious example.

It's also used for low volume production runs of models and parts for models. Typically, unusual historical aircraft may be issued as vac-form kits, or items such as variant cockpit canopies. I know this kind of kit holds some detail, like panel lines.

Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, how can you honestly say "Don't buy it if you don't like it" to those people who pre-ordered them based solely on the pictures whored out by GW of what was supposedly the actual product?

He is just angry you are badmouthing GW, because they are infallible in all forms, and don't deserve this kind of treatment... from their customers who buy their products and expect more from them... just a thought really.

"Note"
This guy did just pop up when the "debacle" got heated (10 posts, do note that), and seems to take it personally when you say the terrain is still bad no matter how well you paint it.

HE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR PAINTING. Do you work for GW? Heh...

So, my mail order finally arrived, and I decided to take it back to my local GW store.

After the experience, I wonder if this might not be one of the best sales campaigns ever.

I never shop at my local GW store; I go to an independent instead. But, because this was a GW part and I wanted to return it, I called the GW store and the manager said to bring it in and he would take care of it without any problems (which turned out to be true).

When I arrived, the manager greeted me quickly, took the product, apologized (for my dissatisfaction, not the model - which was fine), said he was happy to give me a full refund right now, but if I wanted to shop around, he'd hold the item and process the refund when I checked out. At that point the instant gratification gene kicked in, and I started wandering around the store.

I left with some terrain and a few blisters for WHFB. After the exchange, the GW store netted about $60.00 from me. I left happy because they had handled the return so quickly and friendly, and spent more money (and time) in that store than I have in the last two months.

Wrexasaur wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:Yeah, how can you honestly say "Don't buy it if you don't like it" to those people who pre-ordered them based solely on the pictures whored out by GW of what was supposedly the actual product?

He is just angry you are badmouthing GW, because they are infallible in all forms, and don't deserve this kind of treatment... from their customers who buy their products and expect more from them... just a thought really.

"Note"
This guy did just pop up when the "debacle" got heated (10 posts, do note that), and seems to take it personally when you say the terrain is still bad no matter how well you paint it.

HE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR PAINTING. Do you work for GW? Heh...

Whoa, wait...are yout talking about me?

Yes. He is.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yes. He is.

Thanks! I just wanted to make sure I was following along correctly.

@Wrexasaur - No I am not mad. No I am not a 'fanboy'. Yes, GW can do wrong and does with frightening regularity. No, I do not work for GW (not that there is anything wrong with that). I am sorry that I have not taken the proper tone on this thread. I am sorry that I am new to the forums. I thought this was a place that gamers of different perspectives could share ideas and opinions. I did not realize this was a GW haters forum. Let my try and get this right.

"D#^$%! Those GW b**^&(%ds have totally f&#%d me for the last time! I swear if I ever meet the fools who dumped this load of crap on me I will really give him a trashing (verbal, no violence)! I can't believe I wasted $20 and free shipping on this pile of crap! Then they tricked me into painting these turds so I can't even get my money back! I am going to take all this GW crap and dump it in the trash. And I am going to dump all the other crap that is inspired by GW or reminds me of GW in the trash! No more of this for me! I am going to take up scrapbooking! You never see those scrapbook companies f*&^%g people over like this! I won't get fooled again! No sir!"

I really feel better now. I guess I was really mad like everyone else and I was just rationalizing this. I just did not want to admit I had been taken and I just wanted other people to get tricked too. I just don't want to be the only one who got fooled. I am sorry.

DrunkenSamurai wrote:I did not realize this was a GW haters forum.

It's not a GW haters forum. It's not a GW lovers forum either. We would like (hope?) that it's more of a GW realist forum, with all the hatred and gushing kept to a minimum. In this particular instance, the reality of the situation is that someone - be it GW or the production place in China - messed up, GW took various steps to not deal with the problem, and it has left a lot of people angry at them. I think someone said it a page or two ago, if they'd shown pictures of the actual items no one would really be complaining because complaining about getting what you paid for isn't realistic. Complaining when you get something vastly inferior to what you paid for, combined with store managers giving you the 'not our problem' speil, doesn't leave anyone happy.

You don't have to be a 'hater' to see that.

DrunkenSamurai,

Did you get possessed by some of our more prolific posters here? I hate when that happens.

Don't worry about your tone. I like the postitive and constructive steps you took with this situation.

Really, there are a bunch of catty old quilting ladies on this forum who like cackling like hens whenever they perceive a slight on GW's part. Which is everytime GW does or does not do something. They're like the nega-Warseer.

That being said, I'd rather be here than there. GW does often make huge missteps. I dislike Privateer Press's product, but if we could only put Matt Wilson in charge of GW's business practices... You know, that crazy openness with the customer base, the frequent FAQs and hobby content in their magazine...

Valhallan42nd wrote:...they perceive a slight on GW's part.

Are you calling the blast scape debarcle a 'perceived slight' are you?

Wrexasaur wrote:Do you work for GW? Heh...

Oh don't do that, people do that to me on the rare occasion that I have something nice to say.

But yeah, I wasn't trying to criticize anyone's painting, no matter how stellar the paintjob is they just won't look good to me. It works though, I won't turn my nose up at it and refuse to play a game with them on the table (it beats the gak out of felt...felt isn't terrain), but I still don't think they're worth the money.

Yes, GW can do wrong and does with frightening regularity.

I like that, "frightening regularity".

No, I do not work for GW (not that there is anything wrong with that).

I don't think there's anything wrong with it either, though I do feel for them in a way since it sounds like a really crappy job.

I thought this was a place that gamers of different perspectives could share ideas and opinions. I did not realize this was a GW haters forum.

I don't think there is such a thing as a GW haters forum. Most of us that bitch only do it because we care. Or maybe that's just me, I dunno, but still!

Complaining when you get something vastly inferior to what you paid for, combined with store managers giving you the 'not our problem' speil, doesn't leave anyone happy.

Exactly, and in my opinion at least this is a serious issue that could hurt GW if they don't deal with it properly and avoid making the same mistakes in the future. Hence, I bitch!

Even though it's been established that bitching on a forum doesn't accomplish much and it would be better to bitch at GW directly, but I'm under the assumption that GW isn't completely ignorant and sees these forums from time to time anyway. Some of the designers have been proven to have accounts on Warseer and I think even on Dakka, but I haven't been a Dakka member for too long so...

I am sorry that you think we are all saying this...

DrunkenSamurai wrote:"D#^$%! Those GW b**^&(%ds have totally f&#%d me for the last time! I swear if I ever meet the fools who dumped this load of crap on me I will really give him a trashing (verbal, no violence)! I can't believe I wasted $20 and free shipping on this pile of crap! Then they tricked me into painting these turds so I can't even get my money back! I am going to take all this GW crap and dump it in the trash. And I am going to dump all the other crap that is inspired by GW or reminds me of GW in the trash! No more of this for me! I am going to take up scrapbooking! You never see those scrapbook companies f*&^%g people over like this! I won't get fooled again! No sir!"

\

Way to stereotype me into a unrealistic role, not to mention plenty of other GW customers that have been angered by this. Just toss it to the side and pretend I am being irate and harassing you directly through harsh wording and general unhappiness causiness.

Truly... wait forget this, blablablablablabla.

Ok, so I have not even said a word in your thread and you still feel the need to attack me personally like I have done something wrong under a guise of nonsense. I never said Oshava was wrong for working with GW, just that he was not in a GW store and he should damn well act like it. (Edit: harsh and probably unnecessary but I stand by my intention.)

No more of this flaming, lets be rational or just stay out of this entirely.

Edit:
Please just P.M. me if you really feel the need to take this any further. You can vent all you want into my message box.

It's called sarcasm. Lighten up. I was wasn't attacking you anymore than I felt personally attacked.

I was just trying to fit in

@Wrexasaur - the only part of my post that was directed at you was the paragraph that started with @Wrexasaur. The following paras were an attempt at humor...which some people recognised.