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Gwar! wrote:By TMIR, I can say all my Space Wolves are S10 T10 with 67" of movement. If you disagree, you are making the game unfun, for me. Therefore, you are knowingly breaking TMIR, and another word for Knowingly Breaking rules is Cheating.

Therefore, I win, because you cheated.

THAT is why TMIR is not used here on YMDC.

No, Gwar, that's not why TMIR is not used in rules discussions, because it's not how TMIR works, as has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions.

TMIR is not used in rules discussions because the fact that you can change the rules is irrelevant in a discussion of those rules. That's all there is to it.

FlingitNow wrote:

Eldar aren't allowed to field models (including non-IC models) that do not display the gear purchased for them (but are allowed to field models which have too much gear, luckily).
-> Some models, such as the Swooping Hawks, must have gear added to them which aren't supplied in the GW product packages. Swooping Hawks generally miss their grenades.

And thus you can never legally field Swooping Hawks as Citadel do not have a model that is usuable for them. Just like say a Tervigon or Thunderwolf Cavalry but more dumb because they do have swooping hawk models just not ones with the wargear required on them for you to field them...

Er ... If we being 100% RAW WYSIWYG only effects characters since it is part of their rules rather then part of "models and units".

Tri - iirc Eldar have a special WYSIWYG rule in their book...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Tri - iirc Eldar have a special WYSIWYG rule in their book...

Quick check ...
... no, nearest thing i can see is page 21 wargear but that covers exarch and their weapons.

page 59 Eldar Codex (second sentence under Using the Army lists):

Remember that you cannot field models that are equipped with weapons or wargear not shown on the models.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

ArbitorIan wrote:- Sudden reading of codex reveals that Techmarines DO have the Independent Character rule.

They have it listed as one of their rules on the unit page. In the army list, solo Techmarines have it. The Tech who comes with the Thunderfire Cannon does not.

FlingitNow wrote:page 59 Eldar Codex (second sentence under Using the Army lists):

Remember that you cannot field models that are equipped with weapons or wargear not shown on the models.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

gah well hidden ... i don't think i've read 'using the army list' since i started.

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but AFAIK, there are two types of Jetbikes: Jetbikes and Eldar Jetbikes, which have extra abilities.

P40 and 64 of the Eldar Codex: Guardian Bikers have Eldar Jetbikes.

P37 and 65: Shining Spears, who are the most elite mounted Eldar warriors, only have bog-standard Jetbikes.

Probably something not seen during GW's so-called "proof-reading"

Valk

Actually not even Guardian jetbikers have Eldar Jetbikes. Whilst their bestiary entry describes one option for them being Eldar Jetbikes (just as the aspect warrior entries describe Exarch powers and wargear that you don't automatically get) the Armylist entry makes no mention of an Eldar jetbike. Only that their unit type is jetbike...

Page 30 of the Tau Codex: Decoy Launchers are useless as there is no "Glancing Hit Vehicle Damage Table", there is only a "Vehicle Damage Table" which you apply respective modifiers to.

Valk

FlingitNow wrote:page 59 Eldar Codex (second sentence under Using the Army lists):

Remember that you cannot field models that are equipped with weapons or wargear not shown on the models.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

That said, it doesn't clearly define exactly what the wargear looks like anywhere that isn't fluff. You could easily argue the bumps on the model (that admittedly look quite similar to soulstones/helmets/feet etc) are in fact grenades.

Brother-Captain Stern is not a Grey Knight, as he does not have the Grey Knights rule.

Death Masks say the opponent must pass a leadership or be at WS1 if they wish to assault a unit with a Death Mask. It doesn't say what happens if the test is failed. This is like Bjorn's invulnerable save, it doesn't say what happens therefore one should always take the test. . JK, that's a jerk move.

Not sure this qualifies, but Black Templar still have old school smoke/POTMS rules, so if my vehicles pop smoke, you cannot penetrate them, and my vehicles also pretty much ignore shaken/stunned results

ImRightBehindYou wrote:Death Masks say the opponent must pass a leadership or be at WS1 if they wish to assault a unit with a Death Mask. It doesn't say what happens if the test is failed. This is like Bjorn's invulnerable save, it doesn't say what happens therefore one should always take the test. . JK, that's a jerk move.

The must pass a leadership test or be at WS 1. That seems to tell you what happens pretty well.

Klawz wrote:

ImRightBehindYou wrote:Death Masks say the opponent must pass a leadership or be at WS1 if they wish to assault a unit with a Death Mask. It doesn't say what happens if the test is failed. This is like Bjorn's invulnerable save, it doesn't say what happens therefore one should always take the test. . JK, that's a jerk move.

The must pass a leadership test or be at WS 1. That seems to tell you what happens pretty well.

No, from my interpretation (which could easily be wrong) it means they can choose to be at WS1 or pass a test.

ImRightBehindYou wrote:

Klawz wrote:

ImRightBehindYou wrote:Death Masks say the opponent must pass a leadership or be at WS1 if they wish to assault a unit with a Death Mask. It doesn't say what happens if the test is failed. This is like Bjorn's invulnerable save, it doesn't say what happens therefore one should always take the test. . JK, that's a jerk move.

The must pass a leadership test or be at WS 1. That seems to tell you what happens pretty well.

No, from my interpretation (which could easily be wrong) it means they can choose to be at WS1 or pass a test.

Can you quote the rule please? BTW, which codex is this from?

Page 50 of the Blood Angels Codex:

An enemy assaulted my one or more unit equipped with Death Masks must pass a Leadership test or be reduced to weapon skill 1 for the duration of the Assault phase.

It actually doesn't make the work unit plural so you may find a work around that with multiple units…

The Trukk's Ramshackle rule never takes effect.

If a Trukk suffers a Vehicle Destroyed! or Vehicle Explodes! (wrecked) result, roll on the Ramshackle table below and apply the result instead of the usual effects.

There is neither a Vehicle Destroyed! nor a Vehicle Explodes! (wrecked) result on the vehicle damage table.

insaniak wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:- Sudden reading of codex reveals that Techmarines DO have the Independent Character rule.

They have it listed as one of their rules on the unit page. In the army list, solo Techmarines have it. The Tech who comes with the Thunderfire Cannon does not.

Don't think this is a mestake just how it is, looking through the codex.

BoyMac wrote:Page 50 of the Blood Angels Codex:

An enemy assaulted my one or more unit equipped with Death Masks must pass a Leadership test or be reduced to weapon skill 1 for the duration of the Assault phase.

It actually doesn't make the work unit plural so you may find a work around that with multiple units…

They must pass a leadership test...or be reduced to weapon skill one.
If you don't take the test, you're at weapon skill 1. If you take the test, and fail it, you're at weapon skill one. Only by passing a leadership test can you remove the weapon skill one.

Well you could look at it that you have a choice. Be WS1, or take a LD test and risk running away :p

Oshova

Erm, no - a LD test is not a morale check...

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:Not sure this qualifies, but Black Templar still have old school smoke/POTMS rules, so if my vehicles pop smoke, you cannot penetrate them, and my vehicles also pretty much ignore shaken/stunned results

This is no problem - the rulebook specifies that some older codexes use different rules for Smoke Launchers which override the ones in the rulebook.

Edit: I was going to say that Dark Angel smoke launchers specify that the vehicle is concealed, meaning they qualify for the 4+ cover save despite as well as getting the downgrade from glace to penetrate - and if that's not enough, it also specifies to place cotton wool around the model, which could easily qualify it for the save. However, in the main rulebook it's only obscured vehicles and not concealed ones that get the 4+ cover save, and the cotton wool argument doesn't work because a vehicle would only get the save if obscured by models or terrain, and the cotton wool is neither of these.

However, if you have a really, really big smoke cloud, you can still make the target invisible - the rules state you can place cotton wool and are silent on how much cotton wool to place.

Don't think this is a mestake just how it is, looking through the codex.

Then why does it bother to say in the TFC rules that he doesn't benefit from the IC rule until the TFC is destroyed? Since he'll never benefit from it as ghe doesn't have it...

FlingitNow wrote:

Don't think this is a mestake just how it is, looking through the codex.

Then why does it bother to say in the TFC rules that he doesn't benefit from the IC rule until the TFC is destroyed? Since he'll never benefit from it as ghe doesn't have it...

Ah good point ... What page is that on again?

Page 73 in itailisc after the techmarine profile.

Space Marine codex, pg 131. In the Honour Guard section, it says the Chapter Champion may take "Digital Lasers." There are no rules for "Digital Lasers" in the codex. There are, however, "Digital Weapons".

They're on the missing page of every SM codex. Digital Lasers are the most awesome weapon in 40K, they kill every model within 36" on a 2+, no saves of any kind . . . but sadly the page is missing, so you can't use them =[

=p

Oshova

Valkyrie wrote:Page 30 of the Tau Codex: Decoy Launchers are useless as there is no "Glancing Hit Vehicle Damage Table", there is only a "Vehicle Damage Table" which you apply respective modifiers to.

Valk

This was changed in the FAQ

Page 30 - Decoy Launchers

The second sentence should be changed to:

Whenever a glancing hit causes an Immobilized result onto a vehicle, the Tau player may force his opponent to re-roll the dice, and the second result applies.