GW to order retailers to stop shipping to southern hemisphere...

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**insaniak**

Aspiring Champion wrote:People suggesting using freight forwarders probably don't understand the full picture. What makes buying from the UK so cheap for us is because the items are being sent overseas, we don't pay VAT. Maelstrom and Wayland convert the VAT into paying the shipping. That lets us buy at the same price UK folks do. If goods were sent to forwarders, we pay the full UK price (including VAT), and then have to pay the shipping on top. That international freight charge is a killer.

Except that the huge disparity in pricing means that even with all this, it's still going to be cheaper than GW OZ RRP, unless the forwarders are taking a massive cut. The purchases that I've made directly from GW UK in the past have worked out to save around 30 off the Oz price, even after shipping.

**Sidstyler**

nosferatu1001 wrote:Blizzard == Activision. So dont get Diablo 3 if you dont like Activision

HOLY GAK I HAD NO IDEA actually yeah I knew that already. Notice in my post I didn't say I would buy Diablo 3, only that I was more interested in it than Starcraft 2.

Don't know how "more interested in Diablo 3" means that I'm so god-damned stupid I have no idea that it's made by the same company, and that I'm going to buy three copies, but whatever.

**AvatarForm**

Vote with your wallets.

That is all.

**Quintinus**

Have they also shut down the option for eBay stores to ship to Australia? You could get around the blockade by doing that.

**The Plastic Surgeon**

Aspiring Champion wrote:People suggesting using freight forwarders probably don't understand the full picture. What makes buying from the UK so cheap for us is because the items are being sent overseas, we don't pay VAT. Maelstrom and Wayland convert the VAT into paying the shipping. That lets us buy at the same price UK folks do. If goods were sent to forwarders, we pay the full UK price (including VAT), and then have to pay the shipping on top. That international freight charge is a killer.

100%

Thats why you need to be creative. Get a group order going at the highest discounting indie during a sale which is once a month or every other month, plenty of time to get a group going, you can even make it a regular thing so people in the group can budget. I suggest Wayland as they give you a shipping weight estimate as wekk. Have them ship to a buddy in the UK. Ask him to debox everything and chuck into one big box instead as well as verifying the contents. Shout him a happy hour beer or 5 via paypal. Then use these folks

http://www.transglobal.org.uk/australia/index.asp

15kg at 62 quid airfreight to Aus tracked.... Split that evenly within a group.

Go the plastic railroad! I'm in the process of organising mine.

**Lord Castellan Mik**

it's incredible when you look at simple examples

Black Library (GW publishing arm) is selling eBooks online to the world

From Australia we even pay more for electronic stock

The new story "Midnight on the street of knives" is GBP1.50, but we pay AU$5.99... even though the exchange rate for the last 2 years has been in the vicinity of AU$2.28

Other eBook offerings are

GBP2.50 AU$6.99 exchange rate AU$3.81
GBP6.50 AU$13.99 exchange rate AU$9.90
GBP8.50 AU$19.00 exchange rate AU$12.94

how can they do this

Oh yeah... coz we keep paying it

Mik

Where is their justification for that

**SilverMK2**

Just so you know GW's facebook page just posted a reply to the change in shipping terms:

GW facebook page wrote:Our CEO Mark Wells has written a letter in response to people who have contacted him to express their concerns over our decision to restrict European trade accounts from selling outside the EU. We asked him nicely if we could also post it here for all of you who have been letting us know how you feel on Facebook and so here you have his personal reply.

Sincerely,

The Web Team

Dear Hobbyists,

Thanks for contacting Games Workshop about the change in our trading terms for European accounts. I know this has frustrated you and for that I am truly sorry. As a long standing customer, you deserve to know why we made this decision.

As you know, we introduce people to the Games Workshop hobby of collecting, painting and gaming with Citadel miniatures through our Hobby Centres and local independent trade accounts. Games Workshop Hobby Centres run introductory games and painting sessions, beginner lessons, hobby activities and events. We provide all these services free of charge. We only recover this investment if customers then buy products from us.

Where we don't have a Games Workshop Hobby Centre, we support local independent trade accounts. These businesses provide a convenient place for customers to buy our products close to where they live. We support these businesses with local customer service teams and warehouses to ensure customers have immediate access to our best selling products and new releases. Many customers discover the hobby this way.

In addition we invest millions of pounds every year in our design studio and factory to ensure that each month we release more new products. This makes the Games Workshop Hobby more exciting for existing customers, helping them stay in the hobby longer. We can only afford to do this because of the volume of customers we have recruited and developed through our local Hobby Centres and trade accounts.

It is for this reason that we have changed our European Trade terms. Over recent years, a number of currencies have moved a long way from their historical relative values, and this has opened the door for some traders to try to take advantage of these currency movements and offer deep discounts to overseas hobbyists. This has been the case with European internet traders selling to some of our customers overseas.

While this may seem great in the short term, the simple fact is that European internet traders will not invest any money in growing the hobby in your country. Their model is to minimise their costs and free-ride on the investment of Games Workshop and local independent shops in creating a customer base.

The inevitable consequence if this was allowed to continue is that Games Workshop would not be able to operate Hobby Centres, nor to support local trade accounts. And if this happened in more territories outside Europe, the loss of volume would leave Games Workshop no choice but to scale back our investment in new product development, further eroding our customer base. Not something that we or our customers would want us to do.

That is why we took the decision to take legitimate action to restrict European trade accounts from selling the goods they purchase from Games Workshop outside Europe.

While I understand that you may still be unhappy with our decision, it was taken to ensure we can continue to support the Games Workshop hobby communities around the world through our Games Workshop Hobby Centres and local trade accounts. And to ensure we continue to invest in developing the best possible new product releases every month. I hope therefore that over time you will see the benefits of this decision for you and your hobby.

Yours sincerely,

Mark Wells

Chief Executive

18 May 2011

SilverMK2's reply wrote:As others have mentioned you are "treating" the symptom, not the cause. If you brought local prices to parity with UK/EU prices local stores would see much more business. Thinking you can cut off supply to "reasonably" priced models (ie models priced at UK/EU levels) and expect people to simply switch to paying more than double locally is laughable.

Already other manufacturers are making huge inroads to the ROW market - and that was with EU internet retailers supplying product at "reasonable" prices. LGS's and LGWS's will not see much of an upturn in sales if any (and I expect their sales to absolutely bomb for GW products) - people will simply move on to other, much more reasonably priced games.

I expect Canada will be the next market to collapse for GW, as their strengthening currency means they are already paying in the region of 25% more than the USA for the same products.

Regards the other issues oh-so-deftly avoided in this "announcement" - I really do despair for GW. One hopes that their nonsensical business practices will drive them into the ground so someone competent can buy up their IP and do things properly.

**ChrisWWII**

Well, I can understand why they're doing it, they're not trying to kill themselves clearly....I may not like it, but hey, welcome to capitalism.

**Just Dave**

Well, it's good to actually have some acknowledgement and response from the guy(s) in suits and I can understand WHY they're doing it, but they're going about it in a very bad way IMHO.

Basically, I second everything Silver said in his reply.

**AvatarForm**

Lord Castellan Mik wrote:it's incredible when you look at simple examples

Black Library (GW publishing arm) is selling eBooks online to the world

From Australia we even pay more for electronic stock

The new story "Midnight on the street of knives" is GBP1.50, but we pay AU$5.99... even though the exchange rate for the last 2 years has been in the vicinity of AU$2.28

Other eBook offerings are

GBP2.50 AU$6.99 exchange rate AU$3.81
GBP6.50 AU$13.99 exchange rate AU$9.90
GBP8.50 AU$19.00 exchange rate AU$12.94

how can they do this

Oh yeah... coz we keep paying it

Mik

Where is their justification for that

Actually, many online sellers do this. Book Depository does this.

Simply set up a proxy for your Internet browser to appear in a UK IP and you will receive the lower prices, simply set you PayPal address or Shipping address to your AUS location.

Viola!

**zombie**

At first when I heard the news I was going to get a few of the kits I wanted but after thinking of it I see GW would look at the surge of sales after the notice and only see it as support for their actions. So now I am thinking I would rather spend my money on Dystopian Wars or Firestorm Armada instead. GW with their actions has just simply burned out my love for 40k and left the embers of apathy in its place. I will just use the minis for other gaming systems.

There are only two ways I will buy GW in OZ now either
a) There is a massive price change downwards to match uk prices or
b) the content of the boxes increase to give a better perceived value for money

Neither of these will happen under the current management of GW and if it takes the collapse of GW for the management to learn then so be it. I have other gaming systems that I play and like in which I feel that I get value for money in the pricing of the units

**ph34r**

Honestly I'm a bit confused about the Australian 40kers' indignation about this all.

As exchange rates have changed, 40k has:
Remained the same relative price for US/UK players buying from US/UK
Remained the same relative price for AUS players buying from AUS

and

Increased in price for US/UK players buying from AUS
Decreased in price for AUS buying from US/UK

All in all, AUS players have been getting a relatively massive DISCOUNT compared to US players for quite some time now. Yet, they are extremely vocal and angered by these changes. So now you have to pay the same as everyone else?

I just don't get it.

**AvatarForm**

ph34r wrote:Honestly I'm a bit confused about the Australian 40kers' indignation about this all.

As exchange rates have changed, 40k has:
Remained the same relative price for US/UK players buying from US/UK
Remained the same relative price for AUS players buying from AUS

and

Increased in price for US/UK players buying from AUS
Decreased in price for AUS buying from US/UK

All in all, AUS players have been getting a relatively massive DISCOUNT compared to US players for quite some time now. Yet, they are extremely vocal and angered by these changes. So now you have to pay the same as everyone else. Boo hoo.

I just don't get it.

Had you read the entire thread and learned all the facts you would notice that AUS RRP is double USA and UK comparative in AUD.

With the appreciation in the AUD, our prices should decrease, yet they havent. Hence, we buy from Wayland and Maelstrom.

Now, GW in their infinite wisdom have seen that UK and USA retailers cannot sell GW product to us, forcing us to buy AUS RRP. As you would know by now, these prices are already set higher than the USA and UK counterparts.

What is not to understand or "get"?

**zombie**

ph34r wrote:Honestly I'm a bit confused about the Australian 40kers' indignation about this all.

As exchange rates have changed, 40k has:
Remained the same relative price for US/UK players buying from US/UK
Remained the same relative price for AUS players buying from AUS

and

Increased in price for US/UK players buying from AUS
Decreased in price for AUS buying from US/UK

All in all, AUS players have been getting a relatively massive DISCOUNT compared to US players for quite some time now. Yet, they are extremely vocal and angered by these changes. So now you have to pay the same as everyone else?

I just don't get it.

Except Australians are no longer allowed to buy from the cheaper UK/US stores. The US has been getting quite a cheaper deal for a long time you have it mixed around.

Here was an example I posted earlier
OZ Terminator squad
cost AU 74.00
US Dollars 78.25 US GW 50.00
Pounds 48.31 UK GW 27.70

So unless you believe paying 78.25 is cheaper than paying 50.00 Australians have not been getting a good deal and now the method that many have been using to pay the same price as the ROW has been will be blocked off. No discount just punishment for being loyal customers

**Kilkrazy**

ph34r wrote:Honestly I'm a bit confused about the Australian 40kers' indignation about this all.

As exchange rates have changed, 40k has:
Remained the same relative price for US/UK players buying from US/UK
Remained the same relative price for AUS players buying from AUS

and

Increased in price for US/UK players buying from AUS
Decreased in price for AUS buying from US/UK

All in all, AUS players have been getting a relatively massive DISCOUNT compared to US players for quite some time now. Yet, they are extremely vocal and angered by these changes. So now you have to pay the same as everyone else?

I just don't get it.

Why should they care what other people have to pay? The point of having a strong currency is to make imports cheap. The USA has traded on that basis since the Bretton Woods agreement.

If an Australian can buy a game from the UK half the price of buying it from a local shop, of course he is going to be upset when GW say he can't buy it from the UK any more.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Weight of a Trygon kit = 330g.
Weight of a Gargoyles kit = 185g.

Even allowing for packing you can get a lot of those into a 15 Kg parcel.

**ph34r**

zombie wrote:Except Australians are no longer allowed to buy from the cheaper UK/US stores. The US has been getting quite a cheaper deal for a long time you have it mixed around.

Here was an example I posted earlier
OZ Terminator squad
cost AU 74.00
US Dollars 78.25 US GW 50.00
Pounds 48.31 UK GW 27.70

So unless you believe paying 78.25 is cheaper than paying 50.00 Australians have not been getting a good deal and now the method that many have been using to pay the same price as the ROW has been will be blocked off. No discount just punishment for being loyal customers

The exchange rate has no effect on how much an Australian pays in AUD as long as he is being paid in AUD.

If an Australian was paid in USD, your argument would be more correct. As is, no matter what the exchange rate is, the GW product still costs the same to you, because you are paid in AUD, and pay in AUD. Just because importing a product from oversees becomes cheaper than before, does not mean that you are paying more than before. You are paying the same.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:If an Australian can buy a game from the UK half the price of buying it from a local shop, of course he is going to be upset when GW say he can't buy it from the UK any more.

Right. I'm just confused that the Australian 40k player stance on the matter is:

"Importing made us equal to the other countries! Taking this away is the last straw GW, you are ripping us off horribly!"

instead of the correct situation:

"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"

**AlexHolker**

ph34r wrote:Right. I'm just confused that the Australian 40k player stance on the matter is:

"Importing made us equal to the other countries! Taking this away is the last straw GW, you are ripping us off horribly!"

instead of the correct situation:

"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"

Oh really? If this really puts us even with everyone else, I assume you'd have no problem paying Australian prices instead of US prices? Or are you just hypocrite?

**Kilkrazy**

ph34r wrote:
zombie wrote:Except Australians are no longer allowed to buy from the cheaper UK/US stores. The US has been getting quite a cheaper deal for a long time you have it mixed around.

Here was an example I posted earlier
OZ Terminator squad
cost AU 74.00
US Dollars 78.25 US GW 50.00
Pounds 48.31 UK GW 27.70

So unless you believe paying 78.25 is cheaper than paying 50.00 Australians have not been getting a good deal and now the method that many have been using to pay the same price as the ROW has been will be blocked off. No discount just punishment for being loyal customers
The exchange rate has no effect on how much an Australian pays in AUD as long as he is being paid in AUD.

If an Australian was paid in USD, your argument would be more correct. As is, no matter what the exchange rate is, the GW product still costs the same to you, because you are paid in AUD, and pay in AUD. Just because importing a product from oversees becomes cheaper than before, does not mean that you are paying more than before. You are paying the same.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:If an Australian can buy a game from the UK half the price of buying it from a local shop, of course he is going to be upset when GW say he can't buy it from the UK any more.
Right. I'm just confused that the Australian 40k player stance on the matter is:

"Importing made us equal to the other countries! Taking this away is the last straw GW, you are ripping us off horribly!"

instead of the correct situation:

"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"

You seem to have misunderstood the factual basis of the complaint.

If the AUD was worth £1, making the cost of a Trygon 30AUD, and then the AUD became worth £2, making the cost of a Trygon 15AUD, why should the Australians pay 30AUD for it? Those aren't the correct figures, however they illustrate the point.

**H.B.M.C.**

ph34r wrote:"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"

How does it put us even when our prices are double the rest of the world?

**Cerebrium**

Ph34r, you seem to have one glaring flaw in your argument.

Australians DID have to import to get equal prices. Hell, most of the time they STILL paid a premium, thanks to long-distance shipping. They weren't doing it to get a leg up on Europe and the US. They still ended up paying more than we do to import, it was just cutting their losses.

**ph34r**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
ph34r wrote:"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"

How does it put us even when our prices are double the rest of the world?

Because you get paid roughly double.

The average wage in Australia is, in AUD, ~50% more than it is in the US (in USD) (ex: $67,000 AUD vs $41,000 USD)

Coincidentally, Warhammer 40k prices in Australia are also about 50% higher (ex: GKT, $74 AUD, $50 USD)

It's almost like you have been getting the exact same treatment this entire time, and now you feel entitled and angry that your massive 40k exchange rate discount card got taken away.

**Grimstonefire**

I did a quick bit of number crunching.

Bear in mind that some of this the years are not totally comparable (but all within about 3 years of each other).

If you convert the median disposable income for US and AUS into £, then express the cost of a dwarf warriors regiment as a % of this:

UK: 0.141%
AUS: 0.139%
US: 0.101%

So Australians paying full australian retail prices are actually paying a fair rate compared to the UK, based on the median disposable income. Proportionally prices are higher in the UK than US or AUS (for this one thing).

The controversial bit...

I know these figures are probable incorrect, and anyone really bothered should work it out for themselves, but in order to match the UK retail rate as a % of median disposable income, the Dwarf warrior regiment would need to be:

Increased by 1% in Australia
Increased bty 38% in US...

**ph34r**

AlexHolker wrote:Oh really? If this really puts us even with everyone else, I assume you'd have no problem paying Australian prices instead of US prices? Or are you just hypocrite?

If you give me the same average wage increase that Australians have over Americans, and pay me in AUD, I will gladly pay Australian prices.

Good attempt at a false dichotomy though. At least you are trying hard.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cerebrium wrote:Ph34r, you seem to have one glaring flaw in your argument.

Australians DID have to import to get equal prices. Hell, most of the time they STILL paid a premium, thanks to long-distance shipping. They weren't doing it to get a leg up on Europe and the US. They still ended up paying more than we do to import, it was just cutting their losses.

Nope. See above. Remember during this time that Australians are paid in AUD, at a proportionally higher rate than, say, US workers are paid USD.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:You seem to have misunderstood the factual basis of the complaint.

If the AUD was worth £1, making the cost of a Trygon 30AUD, and then the AUD became worth £2, making the cost of a Trygon 15AUD, why should the Australians pay 30AUD for it? Those aren't the correct figures, however they illustrate the point.

Right. No sane Australian would pay more than they could get away with, hence buying from oversees.

However, the GW embargo does not put Australia at some huge disadvantage. Rather, it puts them on the same level as the rest of the world. Australia got its free "Massive Internet Discount" card taken away. A power that nobody else in the world had.
My counterargument is against Australians that cry oppression and unfairness instead of recognizing that hey, welcome to the club, now you pay the same as everyone else. With respect to the money that you earn.

**LunaHound**

ph34r wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
ph34r wrote:"Importing gave us a huge discount that other countries did not have! Taking this away puts us even with everyone else! I should now feel normal!"

How does it put us even when our prices are double the rest of the world?
Because you get paid roughly double.

The average wage in Australia is, in AUD, ~50% more than it is in the US (in USD) (ex: $67,000 AUD vs $41,000 USD)

Coincidentally, Warhammer 40k prices in Australia are also about 50% higher (ex: GKT, $74 AUD, $50 USD)

It's almost like you have been getting the exact same treatment this entire time, and now you feel entitled and angry that your massive 40k exchange rate discount card got taken away.

How much Australians get their minimum wage reflects the strength of their government. Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with how much an item should be sold at.

Let me ask you this , say you pay $2 for mcdonald burger. Someone that makes 100x more money than you, should they be legally forced to pay $200 for burger?

Nope!

**ph34r**

LunaHound wrote:How much Australians get their minimum wage reflects the strength of their government. Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with how much an item should be sold at.

Let me ask you this , say you pay $2 for mcdonald burger. Someone that makes 100x more money than you, should they be legally forced to pay $200 for burger?

Nope!

Not analogous.

**Lord Castellan Mik**

I appreciate the intent and goodwill of some of our overseas brothers, however, if you want to research and comment on Australian wages and our complaints of higher mark-ups for GW products… then please use the appropriate tables and not advertisement, marketing or statistical hype and propaganda.
As you can see, the Government figures are based upon statistics without a thought for reality. While the reality is that most workers are well below advertised averages unless they work well above average overtime, or are management or highly paid executives… hence the blowout of the statistical average wage for the non-average worker.

The Governmental advertising hype for potential immigrants:

Average full-time earnings in Australia were $64,641 per annum in 2010. (According to the Bureau of Statistics.)
If overtime and bonuses are included, earnings were $67,116 per annum.
The average male wage (ordinary time earnings) in Australia is $69,233 per annum. With overtime, this rises to $69,997.
The average female wage (ordinary time earnings) in Australia is $56,950 per annum. With overtime, this rises to $57,704.
Australia's best-paid workers are miners, whose ordinary earnings average $103,111 a year.
Next come professional, scientific and technical services workers who average $77,761 per annum.
Retail workers average $48,703.
The poorest wages are found in the accommodation and restaurant sector where full-time workers earn $46,306 on average.

The reality according to Australian Industry Awards: Most workers are at Level 2

INDUSTRY.....................MINIMUM WAGE (Weekly / Hourly) IN AU$
Food and Beverage.......Level 1 - L6.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 684.50 / 18.01
Hair and Beauty............ Level 1 - L6.... 626.00 / 16.47 - 721.00 / 18.97
Gardener / Landscaper.. Intro Level – L5.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 684.50 / 18.01
General Manufacturing.. Level 1 - L14.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 897.50 / 23.62
Textile Manufacturing... General Hand.. 569.90 / 14.98
..Operator G3 – G1... 586.50 / 15.43 - 631.10 / 16.61
..Storeworker L1 – L4... 609.00 / 16.02 - 667.10 / 17.56
Motor Vehicle Production.. Level 1 – L5.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 645.40 / 16.98
..Forklift Driver............. 629.82 / 16.57
Security Officer................. Level 1 – L5.... 640.40 / 16.85 - 703.05 / 18.50
Restaurant / Hospitality.... Intro Level – L6.... 569.90 / 15.00 - 724.20 / 19.06
General Retail / Sales Assistant.. Level 1 - L6.... 626.00 / 16.47 - 701.00 / 18.45
Fast Food Retail............... Level 1 - L3.... 626.00 / 16.47 - 674.00 / 17.74
General Office Clerk......... Level 1 - L3.... 606.00 / 15.95 - 701.00 / 18.45
Cleaner............................. Level 1 - L3.... 608.80 / 16.03 - 663.60 / 17.47

These are weekly / hourly gross wage, before tax is taken out....
Australian tax rates is another story... currently at 33% for most workers

Mik

**Sidstyler**

$41,000 is the average wage? I'm working full time and I barely make half that.

**ph34r**

Lord Castellan Mik wrote:I appreciate the intent and goodwill of some of our overseas brothers, however, if you want to research and comment on Australian wages and our complaints of higher mark-ups for GW products… then please use the appropriate tables and not advertisement, marketing or statistical hype and propaganda.

I too have read that information. Does that lead you to conclude, by reading your government's data, with authority over that of your governments stated average wage, that there is in fact a different average wage that should be used for purpose of argument? You seemed to trail off into statistics.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sidstyler wrote:$41,000 is the average wage? I'm working full time and I barely make half that.

Welp, that's why they call that minimum wage.

**Grimstonefire**

That's why I tried to use the disposable median salary.

It is much more accurate as a comparison than the average (before the cost of living/tax/benefits).

**Lord Castellan Mik**

Government statistical averages, particularly wages, are blown out of reality especially dependent upon stable population numbers.

In Australia, we have a 25 mil population with a same as rest of the world type of government management system and higher corporations executive management system, however, we do not have the population percentages of workers to make any statistical figure reasonable or average at all.

Mik