Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Going for the purpose of the thread call a lightsaber S6 AP1 2d6 armor pen. A jedi would chew up an entire tac squad in cc. Depending on the circumstances the jedi might get into cc. If a librarian is nearby the answer is no, the psychic hood would screw too much with the jedi's forsight, and once they take a boltgun shot they have no ability to endure it better than a guardsman.

Psychic hood=jedi lose

I just have to say, wow, 19 pages...

schadenfreude wrote:

Psychic hood=jedi lose

Posts like this are the reason this thread should be closed. You have no idea what you're talking about. None whatsoever.

Let's come to a compromise: the marine shoots the jedi in the face, point-blank, and the jedi decapitates the marines at the exact same time. NOW LET THIS POST DIE ALREADY!

Dingdoodah wrote:Let's come to a compromise: the marine shoots the jedi in the face, point-blank, and the jedi decapitates the marines at the exact same time. NOW LET THIS THREAD DIE ALREADY!

fixed
anyway I agree this thread is gone, ask for a mod by pming one and one will come along and close it.
In all honesty this thread has runned its course.

Nerivant wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Psychic hood=jedi lose

Posts like this are the reason this thread should be closed. You have no idea what you're talking about. None whatsoever.

The point is simple and uncontested. If a 40k ability can interfere with a jedi's ability to use the force they can no longer use their ability of forsight tom dodge and parry ranged attacks.

I think a better thread would be old republic/galactic empire versus a full blown tyranis invasion.

schadenfreude wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Psychic hood=jedi lose

Posts like this are the reason this thread should be closed. You have no idea what you're talking about. None whatsoever.

The point is simple and uncontested. If a 40k ability can interfere with a jedi's ability to use the force they can no longer use their ability of forsight tom dodge and parry ranged attacks.

I think a better thread would be old republic/galactic empire versus a full blown tyranis invasion.

Except for the fact that the 40k ability can't interfere with the Jedi's ability.

Force powers are not psychic powers. Jedi are not psykers. Jedi are not affected by psychic hoods, would not get possessed by demons, etc. etc.

How can you be sure that the jedi's powers wouldn't translate into being psychic powers in the 40K universe?

Commisar Wolfie wrote:How can you be sure that the jedi's powers wouldn't translate into being psychic powers in the 40K universe?

By that reasoning, the Jesi would be utterly screwed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nerivant wrote:Force powers are not psychic powers. Jedi are not psykers. Jedi are not affected by psychic hoods, would not get possessed by demons, etc. etc.

And they're also less powerful than psychic powers, too.

Or can a Jedi create a barrier strong enough to block the entirety of a death star's superlaser? Or create a literal firestorm which can wipe out entire armies at a time? Boil a person's blood with a thought, open up the ground and then close it on those who fall in to crush them, slow down/speed up/stop time? Because a Psyker can

(the answer is no)

Nerivant wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Psychic hood=jedi lose

Posts like this are the reason this thread should be closed. You have no idea what you're talking about. None whatsoever.

The point is simple and uncontested. If a 40k ability can interfere with a jedi's ability to use the force they can no longer use their ability of forsight tom dodge and parry ranged attacks.

I think a better thread would be old republic/galactic empire versus a full blown tyranis invasion.

Except for the fact that the 40k ability can't interfere with the Jedi's ability.

Force powers are not psychic powers. Jedi are not psykers. Jedi are not affected by psychic hoods, would not get possessed by demons, etc. etc.

Jedi are not psykers, teleketically crushing a foe's throat is not a psychic power, and shooting force lightliing at people is in no way a psychic power because gw has no legal right to use the word metachlorines in their books.

Most people see the star wars galaxy as less corrupted by the warp/dark side of the force, and see the following terms as interchangable warp/dark side of the force, force powers/psychic powers, mana/chi, six of one/half dozen of the other.

Lucas' lawyers would on the otherhand cutt out Matt Ward's heart and make him eat it while it still beats if he were to write into the next chaos codex's fluff that Magnus the Red had a high metachlorine count.

[quote=schadenfreudeLucas' lawyers would on the otherhand cutt out Matt Ward's heart and make him eat it while it still beats if he were to write into the next chaos codex's fluff that Magnus the Red had a high metachlorine count.

Commisar Wolfie wrote:[quote=schadenfreudeLucas' lawyers would on the otherhand cutt out Matt Ward's heart and make him eat it while it still beats if he were to write into the next chaos codex's fluff that Magnus the Red had a high metachlorine count.

Now I want him to write that, purely to see that happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

Commisar Wolfie wrote:How can you be sure that the jedi's powers wouldn't translate into being psychic powers in the 40K universe?

By that reasoning, the Jesi would be utterly screwed.

I agree they would be, I was just wondering how someone could say that the force powers wouldn't translate into being psyker like powers that would be affected by space marine anti psyker methods and also be vulnerable to chaos and perils of the warp and such.

schadenfreude wrote:A symbiotic organism is what gives all jedi their power

No.

Midichlorians are indicators of a strong connection to the force-- that is, a strong connection to the force means someone is force-sensitive and has lots of midichlorians, not that having lots of midichlorians MAKES one force-sensitive.

Melissia wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:A symbiotic organism is what gives all jedi their power

No.

Midichlorians are indicators of a strong connection to the force-- that is, a strong connection to the force means someone is force-sensitive and has lots of midichlorians, not that having lots of midichlorians MAKES one force-sensitive.

True. And correct


Now The biggest problem we have here is that the space marine vs jedi thread is kinda dieing.

Dunno if that's what I would call a "problem".

On topic: If Jedi cannot draw from the warp, then there's no reason to believe that the force exists in 40k, so them attacking Space Marines would mean that they're utterly screwed. If they CAN draw from the warp, then they're still utterly screwed because they're not prepared, equipped, or trained to deal with the warp's corruptive nature.

Marines will be marines either way.

Melissia wrote:Dunno if that's what I would call a "problem".

On topic: If Jedi cannot draw from the warp, then there's no reason to believe that the force exists in 40k, so them attacking Space Marines would mean that they're utterly screwed. If they CAN draw from the warp, then they're still utterly screwed because they're not prepared, equipped, or trained to deal with the warp's corruptive nature.

Marines will be marines either way.

The Force comes from life itself, IIRC. (It's been a long time since I've read the books.) As long as there are living things in the 40k universe, the Jedi will be able to use the force. They are two completely different mechanisms, so your argument doesn't hold water.

Seriously though, this was discussed and refuted several pages back. This thread has run its course, and should be closed so we stop repeating the same arguments ad nauseam.

CiaranAnnrach wrote:The Force comes from life itself, IIRC.

The Warp exists as long as existence itself exists. Even if all necrons win and wipe out all life in the universe and finish their network of pylons to cut the warp off from realspace-- it'll still be there. Sure, the chaos gods won't like it, but they aren't the warp, they're just collective sentiences that exist in it.

If the force exists in 40k, then it's long since been corrupted by the various warp-creatures.

Melissia wrote:The Warp exists as long as existence itself exists. Even if all necrons win and wipe out all life in the universe and finish their network of pylons to cut the warp off from realspace-- it'll still be there. Sure, the chaos gods won't like it, but they aren't the warp, they're just collective sentiences that exist in it.

If the force exists in 40k, then it's long since been corrupted by the various warp-creatures.

That assumes the Force and the Warp cannot coexist together, of which we have no evidence to base that on. That and it assumes that the Warp is the only source of psychic power - known, long-forgotten, or undiscovered - in the 40k Universe. Both are assumptions which have no real evidence that I know of to support them.

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

Melissia wrote:The Warp exists as long as existence itself exists. Even if all necrons win and wipe out all life in the universe and finish their network of pylons to cut the warp off from realspace-- it'll still be there. Sure, the chaos gods won't like it, but they aren't the warp, they're just collective sentiences that exist in it.

If the force exists in 40k, then it's long since been corrupted by the various warp-creatures.

That assumes the Force and the Warp cannot coexist together, of which we have no evidence to base that on. That and it assumes that the Warp is the only source of psychic power - known, long-forgotten, or undiscovered - in the 40k Universe. Both are assumptions which have no real evidence that I know of to support them.

I actually assumed they do co-exist.

The warp and realspace co-exist, and the warp's denizens constantly seek to corrupt realspace. Why would they ignore the force?

oh my the lulz of this thread...

OK, as a person, who utterly hates star wars now (Lucas ruined it for me) but at one point in time read all the books, comics, and was a huge fan, and also someone who has been playing GW games since 1991 I would say hands down, the Jedi from the movies would get curb stomped by the Marines and the Imperium forces. The Jedi of the Old Republic however, (which is like 4 to 5 thousand years before the movies) would probably crush the marines. After all, 2 Jedi single handily took down the Mandalorian Empire for the most part during the old republic times. Where as in the Clone wars, it took the whole Jedi to defeat, slowed ass mass manufactured idiot droid armies.

All star wars media is canonized, I verified this. However, Lucas reserves the rights to change it if he ever uses it. Lucas Books now publishes all Star Wars literature, and there is some sort of stupid canon rating.

OK, so some quick points to the people who aren't going back to reread my posts, these will be related to the movie Jedi.

- Midichlorians have nothing to do with the force other than they are a side effect. You gain them when you use the force, otherwise they do not reflect how powerful you are. The Jedi were too reliant on technology and lost their way of the Force, thus making them weaker over many generations.

- A sith lord infiltrated the Repbulic, had they been more in tune with the force they would have detected his presence right away

- Yoda himself, the most powerful Jedi at the time was ultimately one giant failure. He failed to protect the Republic, he did not even know until the very end of the prequels that you could in fact become one with the force, which is why he and Obiwan disappear when they die.


Lucas was a horrible writer. He has great ideas, but expands them in the wrong manner and then fails at applying them to a great, deep and meaningful story line. Currently in the books Luke is the most powerful Jedi, and he is a contender for maybe most powerful of all time. He doesn't possess the abilities of say Nihilus or Sion, but he has traveled both paths of the dark and light side and is well versed in each of the arts.

The fact that Nihilus by himself, can absorb all life force energy from a planet and kill everyone on a single planet means he could probably wipe out chapters of marines. Sion, is sith brother is basically immortal. His hatred was so strong it allowed the dark side to hold his body together. The only way he could be defeated is to bring him into the light and have him give up on his anger. So basically, anything short of a vortex grenade wouldn't kill him, or a Marine that could compassionately talk him out of holding on to his hatred.

Now, I am not saying outright that the Jedi would just wipe the Marines. I am saying if you take the most powerful Jedi and put them all together in one army, versus the marines at their height, say even with the Emporer God himself, it would be a giant blood bath. I think that fluff wise the Marines are written to be more powerful than the Jedi for sure, but there are cases I can think of where some Jedi/Sith are just ridiculous in their powers.

Looking at all of this objectively, I would say, in the end, the Space Marines would win, but it would cost them greatly and they would take great losses.

in the third movie, it showed that a single jedi could easily be overwhelmed by ten or so stormtroopers firing blasters, which they can deflect. In the clone wars tv show, it showed a jedi overwhelmed by droids firing blasters, which suck considerably harder than stormtroopers. So, space marines firing bolter shells, which they cannot deflect, would easily kill a jedi. 1 jedi vs 4 space marines would be an even match. so a ratio of 1 vs 6, the jedi lose, and I think there's about 500 jedi in the jedi temple, not including the cadets and early padawans, who wouldn't be a threat. so that's 6,000 marines required to clean out the jedi temple, and that's if it's just basic, infantry marines. You could pull it off with considerably fewer if they were equipped with flamers or plasma guns, those are pretty much instant death to 2 or 3 jedi per shot. I doubt the effectiveness of dreadnoughts and their tanks, jedi own vehicles.

SnaleKing wrote:1 jedi vs 4 space marines would be an even match.

Happy that someone's finally been able to offer a figure on this, so what we saying then is that 500 Jedi per temple would take 2000 marines, just to break even? So 2 chapters to take out a temple, which is more than the OP suggested (2 companies / 200 marines), but less than his mate suggested (5 chapters).

So.... are we done with this now

kitch102 wrote:

SnaleKing wrote:1 jedi vs 4 space marines would be an even match.

Happy that someone's finally been able to offer a figure on this, so what we saying then is that 500 Jedi per temple would take 2000 marines, just to break even? So 2 chapters to take out a temple, which is more than the OP suggested (2 companies / 200 marines), but less than his mate suggested (5 chapters).

So.... are we done with this now

We were done like 5 pages ago.

You mean fifteen pages.

At any rate, I doubt anything but the most exceptionally capable Jedi could handle Marines aside from one on one combat.

Remember, most Jedi weren't Jedi Knights, they were consuls, ambassadors, etc.

Melissia wrote:You mean fifteen pages.

At any rate, I doubt anything but the most exceptionally capable Jedi could handle Marines aside from one on one combat.

Remember, most Jedi weren't Jedi Knights, they were consuls, ambassadors, etc.

Stop bringing new things up

Melissia wrote:You mean fifteen pages.

At any rate, I doubt anything but the most exceptionally capable Jedi could handle Marines aside from one on one combat.

Remember, most Jedi weren't Jedi Knights, they were consuls, ambassadors, etc.

Yes, but they were led by the most powerful Jedi/Sith at the time. Even when Nilihus took over, he had a legion of Sith soldiers at his beckoning. Imagine him, Sion, and thousands of sith followers. Then imagine the non force users and the mechanized war machines they had. Also, there is never an official record of how many Jedi there are. Many force users never never became Jedi/Sith, and some didn't even live in the Republic space.

The movies don't mean anything, and the Jedi/Sith could do serious damage to Space Marines. Though, some chapters, say the Grey Knights for example, would probably do a lot better than say the Ultra Marines against the Jedi.

However, I still stand by my original opinion that the Space Marines would ultimately defeat the Jedi.

Melissia wrote:You mean fifteen pages.

At any rate, I doubt anything but the most exceptionally capable Jedi could handle Marines aside from one on one combat.

Remember, most Jedi weren't Jedi Knights, they were consuls, ambassadors, etc.

This thread was over on page one.

Hey guys, who would win in a fight:

Jedi
or
Space Marine
or
Master Chief
or
MacGuyver, in an Abraham Lincoln hat.

Terrain is a Space Marine bunker next to a Jedi temple on top of Halo ruins littered with chemistry sets.

That sir is just diabolical.

Space marines suck and jedi would own!





Live on , live onn this thread must Goo onn lmao