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Dingdoodah wrote:

Nerivant wrote:Stormtroopers undergo extensive indoctrination, perhaps even deeper than Space Marines undergo. They quite resistant to mind affecting powers, possibly even more than a Space Marine would be.

Episode 4, scene when ben and luke approach the town. Yes, ben was a master, but you were thinking about clone troopers anyway, and there is a difference other than c-troopers being clones.

No, I'm not thinking about clone troopers.

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

sourclams wrote:What was that fat, flying dwarf-elephant thing in Ep. 1 whose mind was too strong to use jedi mind powers against?

If Jedi mind powers don't work on the SW-equivalent of a used car salesman, why does it work on the psychoconditioned Space Marines?

Who are also 9 feet tall and very very musclar and have a very high IQ and also learn and read books for gods sakes. They are monks basically that still retain social knowledge. Not dim witted Storm Troopers.

Stormtroopers undergo extensive indoctrination, perhaps even deeper than Space Marines undergo. They quite resistant to mind affecting powers, possibly even more than a Space Marine would be.

That i know is bull I have read all of the storm trooper books and it clearly says they are militamen and they do not go extensive indoctrination. The only group that i know of that is even consider elite is the orginal group lead by Commander Cody who leads the 212th who was by far the only remaining Clone trooper regiment that remained. Because afterwards the Imperials (Starwars) paid for cheaper and cheaper training, they were not badasses like they were in the clone wars. Helk most of them are man at arms that really aren't that good at anything..

To Quote Commander Cody

Cody wrote:According to Cody, the Empire's decision to recruit soldiers had a negative impact on the Imperial Army's operational effectiveness to a significant degree. His perception of non-clone humans as inferior soldiers and "expendable buffoons" was intensified when he saw a recruit hit his head on a blast door during maneuvers. Cody's frustrations with enlisted troopers, combined with his nostalgic memories of the former Clone Army, ultimately caused him to lament on how the Stormtrooper Corps was an insult and an embarrassment to the legacy of the Grand Army of the Republic, which he described as a once truly incredible fighting force

I believe the term owned comes into mind.

They do not undergo deeper than spacemarines. Space Marines literally are broken down completely. Space Marines are the elite of humanity, and they cannot be easily swayed compared to the storm troopers who can barely hit a side of a barn.

Space marines undergo enough things to kill humans, but they are kept alive by mere apothercaries. Storm Troopers do not go through near death over and over again, They do not see daemons that would scare a normal guardsmen into insanity.

Face it that point you made was a bad one.

Libarains on the other hand have to deal with everything daemons trying to prey upon him and everything.

Space marines have to deal with temptations from the chaos gods, and that by itself is a feat.

If you reference DOW or CS. Goto as an example of Space Marines falling to chaos please find a different manner thank you.

Now point has been made. Space Marines psychological, physically broken before indoctrination they know no fear and they kill because they must for humanitys safety. Please read the space marine codex.

Honestly we're all arguing in circles again. There has been the same arguments over and over with no clear answer I think we all need to agree to disagree.

Nicholas wrote:Honestly we're all arguing in circles again. There has been the same arguments over and over with no clear answer I think we all need to agree to disagree.

I agree. If it was all out war the marines win, Single Marine vs Jedi, Jedi wins only because jedi unlike space marines have light sabers and space marines would most likely be in close combat, but at distance marine wins, so it really matters where the marine is at the time.

Chapter wise if the entire chapter is fielded 1,000 marines vs 1,000 jedi. Jedi lose, Because marines have something called artillery and tank support. And the Space Marine navy would quicly dispatch of the Jedi fleet very quickly

Storm troopers are genetically altered to be more obedient, which actually makes them more open to mind control as long as the person doing so alters the mind in a way that makes them think they are still following orders. These are not the droids you are looking for, move along.

For this to go anywhere further, somebody has to quantify the 'average' Jedi's power at the height of the Jedis' collective power.

Ep. 1-3 Jedi would probably be beaten by a single Tactical marine. They would almost certainly be beaten by two Tactical marines firing bolters from different angles. Character, or "elite" Jedi would better, but Anakin and Windu have to be compared to Calgar and Lysander.

Ep. 4-6 Jedi are all 'character' Jedi but even here the power level doesn't seem that impressive. Certainly not relative to 'character' Marines. Post-Jedi Academy Jedi like Mara Jade or Kyp Durran seem 'aight', but again I don't think they'd have a very good time dealing with 8 foot tall Supermen firing grenades. Powerful cabals like the Witches of Dathomir do seem impressive, but Marines have been cleansing planets filled with psyker covens and sorcerers for millennia; all falls before the Emperor's holy boltgun slingers.

So somebody has to establish, on average, how impressive Jedi were 'back in the day'.

schadenfreude wrote:Storm troopers are genetically altered to be more obedient, which actually makes them more open to mind control as long as the person doing so alters the mind in a way that makes them think they are still following orders. These are not the droids you are looking for, move along.

not all the time some are just regular human volunteers, the Orginal Clones are a minority, and the newer clones are not as good as the ones from before instead they are repurposed soldiers that literally suck. (not joking)

Jedi back before the movies timelines were alot better and were incredible powerful now they have difficulty picking up an x-wing.

I'm thinking that we should forget I ever mentioned Storm Troopers

That was my bad, statement retracted, I was focusing on what I believed to be a direct comparison in their creation (Clone Wars era).

I do stand by my view that the jedi would win though, it stands to reason that they would have fought something akin to Space Marines in their time.

As for Artillery, tanks etc, Jedi have taken care of many an armoured column in their time, man on tank or in some kind of fighter jet.

I'm backing out of this debate now...!

kitch102 wrote:I'm thinking that we should forget I ever mentioned Storm Troopers

That was my bad, statement retracted, I was focusing on what I believed to be a direct comparison in their creation (Clone Wars era).

I do stand by my view that the jedi would win though, it stands to reason that they would have fought something akin to Space Marines in their time.

As for Artillery, tanks etc, Jedi have taken care of many an armoured column in their time, man on tank or in some kind of fighter jet.

I'm backing out of this debate now...!

Yes because the Space Marines lack air support. /sarcasm off

anti air is not too common space marine vechiles lascannons would take care of the jedi fighters. And the rocket launchers would destroy jedi fighters like no tomorrow.

Alright, fine, I'm back in the arguement.

Are we acutally going to start debating the tactics involved in this whole thing now? Why not play out an apocalypse game with air / anti air et al and see how many of those units survive, destroy tank columns etc etc etc.

I'm not in anyway suggesting the Jedi's would be invincible if you plonked 'em in a cockpit, but I am saying that they have mroe tactical options available to them than just being on foot.

Any more???

Asherian Command wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

sourclams wrote:What was that fat, flying dwarf-elephant thing in Ep. 1 whose mind was too strong to use jedi mind powers against?

If Jedi mind powers don't work on the SW-equivalent of a used car salesman, why does it work on the psychoconditioned Space Marines?

Who are also 9 feet tall and very very musclar and have a very high IQ and also learn and read books for gods sakes. They are monks basically that still retain social knowledge. Not dim witted Storm Troopers.

Stormtroopers undergo extensive indoctrination, perhaps even deeper than Space Marines undergo. They quite resistant to mind affecting powers, possibly even more than a Space Marine would be.

That i know is bull I have read all of the storm trooper books and it clearly says they are militamen and they do not go extensive indoctrination. The only group that i know of that is even consider elite is the orginal group lead by Commander Cody who leads the 212th who was by far the only remaining Clone trooper regiment that remained. Because afterwards the Imperials (Starwars) paid for cheaper and cheaper training, they were not badasses like they were in the clone wars. Helk most of them are man at arms that really aren't that good at anything..

Uh, maybe you should do some research before you accuse me of lying.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/stormtroopers/

And don't even try and tell me that isn't canon.

kitch102 wrote:Alright, fine, I'm back in the arguement.

Are we acutally going to start debating the tactics involved in this whole thing now? Why not play out an apocalypse game with air / anti air et al and see how many of those units survive, destroy tank columns etc etc etc.

I'm not in anyway suggesting the Jedi's would be invincible if you plonked 'em in a cockpit, but I am saying that they have mroe tactical options available to them than just being on foot.

Any more???

The Space Marines have something called a fleet in orbit and drop pods before the jedi could react their main leaders would be dead and their ship bays completely destroyed then a small tactical missile would destroy half the remaining jedi and then the slaughter would begin. Jedi probably have never faced anything compared to the space marines, the space marines are relentless and would slaughter everything in their path for humanity, as in their eyes the Jedi are traitiors and harbor Xenos and should be slaughtered for that. You can't make someone who is basically hating you in the start and wants to kill you and force trick them into killing their brother because that wouldn't happen.

Space marines would keep bombarding primary targets and slaughter the pilots.

Then Elite terminator squads come in slaughter all of the jedi and tear through them

Space marine assualt squads would be deployed via storm ravens and thunder hawks and drop pods and would cut off major areas of supplies and bolt pistol their way through the jedi lines. Face it the space marines in their full strength and under the leadership of a Highly Trained Chapter Master and the Chapter Council would mean = instant slaughter. A Space Marine Chapter is like fighting an entire regiment of guardsmen of walking tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

sourclams wrote:What was that fat, flying dwarf-elephant thing in Ep. 1 whose mind was too strong to use jedi mind powers against?

If Jedi mind powers don't work on the SW-equivalent of a used car salesman, why does it work on the psychoconditioned Space Marines?

Who are also 9 feet tall and very very musclar and have a very high IQ and also learn and read books for gods sakes. They are monks basically that still retain social knowledge. Not dim witted Storm Troopers.

Stormtroopers undergo extensive indoctrination, perhaps even deeper than Space Marines undergo. They quite resistant to mind affecting powers, possibly even more than a Space Marine would be.

That i know is bull I have read all of the storm trooper books and it clearly says they are militamen and they do not go extensive indoctrination. The only group that i know of that is even consider elite is the orginal group lead by Commander Cody who leads the 212th who was by far the only remaining Clone trooper regiment that remained. Because afterwards the Imperials (Starwars) paid for cheaper and cheaper training, they were not badasses like they were in the clone wars. Helk most of them are man at arms that really aren't that good at anything..

Uh, maybe you should do some research before you accuse me of lying.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/stormtroopers/

And don't even try and tell me that isn't canon.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_Corps
Read it.
One problem with the link, that still proves my point. Space marines at average are 150 years old. Thats a century of warfare. compared to the stormtrooper would barely can go through a campagin.

Asherian Command wrote:

kitch102 wrote:Alright, fine, I'm back in the arguement.

Are we acutally going to start debating the tactics involved in this whole thing now? Why not play out an apocalypse game with air / anti air et al and see how many of those units survive, destroy tank columns etc etc etc.

I'm not in anyway suggesting the Jedi's would be invincible if you plonked 'em in a cockpit, but I am saying that they have mroe tactical options available to them than just being on foot.

Any more???

The Space Marines have something called a fleet in orbit and drop pods before the jedi could react their main leaders would be dead and their ship bays completely destroyed then a small tactical missile would destroy half the remaining jedi and then the slaughter would begin. Jedi probably have never faced anything compared to the space marines, the space marines are relentless and would slaughter everything in their path for humanity, as in their eyes the Jedi are traitiors and harbor Xenos and should be slaughtered for that. You can't make someone who is basically hating you in the start and wants to kill you and force trick them into killing their brother because that wouldn't happen.

Space marines would keep bombarding primary targets and slaughter the pilots.

Then Elite terminator squads come in slaughter all of the jedi and tear through them

Space marine assualt squads would be deployed via storm ravens and thunder hawks and drop pods and would cut off major areas of supplies and bolt pistol their way through the jedi lines. Face it the space marines in their full strength and under the leadership of a Highly Trained Chapter Master and the Chapter Council would mean = instant slaughter. A Space Marine Chapter is like fighting an entire regiment of guardsmen of walking tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

sourclams wrote:What was that fat, flying dwarf-elephant thing in Ep. 1 whose mind was too strong to use jedi mind powers against?

If Jedi mind powers don't work on the SW-equivalent of a used car salesman, why does it work on the psychoconditioned Space Marines?

Who are also 9 feet tall and very very musclar and have a very high IQ and also learn and read books for gods sakes. They are monks basically that still retain social knowledge. Not dim witted Storm Troopers.

Stormtroopers undergo extensive indoctrination, perhaps even deeper than Space Marines undergo. They quite resistant to mind affecting powers, possibly even more than a Space Marine would be.

That i know is bull I have read all of the storm trooper books and it clearly says they are militamen and they do not go extensive indoctrination. The only group that i know of that is even consider elite is the orginal group lead by Commander Cody who leads the 212th who was by far the only remaining Clone trooper regiment that remained. Because afterwards the Imperials (Starwars) paid for cheaper and cheaper training, they were not badasses like they were in the clone wars. Helk most of them are man at arms that really aren't that good at anything..

Uh, maybe you should do some research before you accuse me of lying.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/stormtroopers/

And don't even try and tell me that isn't canon.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_Corps
Read it.

Read it, and it says they're indoctrinated, mate. Face it, the argument you made against me was a bad one. The term 'owned' comes to mind.

And, since the Jedi have no standing fleet, it's asinine to compare a fully armed and supported SM company to the Jedi.

Quit derailing the thread, please.

The thread was actually Jedi vs. Space Marine and Jedi vs. Tac squad. Neither side gave in because they really aren't comparable and it's too situational.

/thread

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

kitch102 wrote:Alright, fine, I'm back in the arguement.

Are we acutally going to start debating the tactics involved in this whole thing now? Why not play out an apocalypse game with air / anti air et al and see how many of those units survive, destroy tank columns etc etc etc.

I'm not in anyway suggesting the Jedi's would be invincible if you plonked 'em in a cockpit, but I am saying that they have mroe tactical options available to them than just being on foot.

Any more???

The Space Marines have something called a fleet in orbit and drop pods before the jedi could react their main leaders would be dead and their ship bays completely destroyed then a small tactical missile would destroy half the remaining jedi and then the slaughter would begin. Jedi probably have never faced anything compared to the space marines, the space marines are relentless and would slaughter everything in their path for humanity, as in their eyes the Jedi are traitiors and harbor Xenos and should be slaughtered for that. You can't make someone who is basically hating you in the start and wants to kill you and force trick them into killing their brother because that wouldn't happen.

Space marines would keep bombarding primary targets and slaughter the pilots.

Then Elite terminator squads come in slaughter all of the jedi and tear through them

Space marine assualt squads would be deployed via storm ravens and thunder hawks and drop pods and would cut off major areas of supplies and bolt pistol their way through the jedi lines. Face it the space marines in their full strength and under the leadership of a Highly Trained Chapter Master and the Chapter Council would mean = instant slaughter. A Space Marine Chapter is like fighting an entire regiment of guardsmen of walking tanks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:

sourclams wrote:What was that fat, flying dwarf-elephant thing in Ep. 1 whose mind was too strong to use jedi mind powers against?

If Jedi mind powers don't work on the SW-equivalent of a used car salesman, why does it work on the psychoconditioned Space Marines?

Who are also 9 feet tall and very very musclar and have a very high IQ and also learn and read books for gods sakes. They are monks basically that still retain social knowledge. Not dim witted Storm Troopers.

Stormtroopers undergo extensive indoctrination, perhaps even deeper than Space Marines undergo. They quite resistant to mind affecting powers, possibly even more than a Space Marine would be.

That i know is bull I have read all of the storm trooper books and it clearly says they are militamen and they do not go extensive indoctrination. The only group that i know of that is even consider elite is the orginal group lead by Commander Cody who leads the 212th who was by far the only remaining Clone trooper regiment that remained. Because afterwards the Imperials (Starwars) paid for cheaper and cheaper training, they were not badasses like they were in the clone wars. Helk most of them are man at arms that really aren't that good at anything..

Uh, maybe you should do some research before you accuse me of lying.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/organization/stormtroopers/

And don't even try and tell me that isn't canon.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_Corps
Read it.

Read it, and it says they're indoctrinated, mate. Face it, the argument you made against me was a bad one. The term 'owned' comes to mind.

And, since the Jedi have no standing fleet, it's asinine to compare a fully armed and supported SM company to the Jedi.

Quit derailing the thread, please.

I wasn't the one who brought it up
Just saying comparing a Space Marine who is indoctranited through horrible means that would scare normal humans is more potent than storm troopers
A fully armed Space Marine Chapter vs a Fully Armed Jedi Force is like pitting a Dragon vs a Dog. The dragon of course being a Komodo Dragon (space marines) vs the Dog. Which in itself means the jedi are screwed.
Plus this agruement has been completely argued to death. So I vote for closing this thread.

Asherian Command wrote:
I wasn't the one who brought it up
Just saying comparing a Space Marine who is indoctranited through horrible means that would scare normal humans is more potent than storm troopers
A fully armed Space Marine Chapter vs a Fully Armed Jedi Force is like pitting a Dragon vs a Dog. The dragon of course being a Komodo Dragon (space marines) vs the Dog. Which in itself means the jedi are screwed.
Plus this agruement has been completely argued to death. So I vote for closing this thread.

Yes, I brought it up. Then you argued against it, and I refuted your argument. Not sure what you mean by that, but I'm glad you've accepted that you were wrong.


So... the Jedi could defeat the Space Marines, but it would take a bit of luck to avoid dying, or they'll both die? What are you trying to convey with that metaphor, exactly?

Asherian Command wrote:

kitch102 wrote:Alright, fine, I'm back in the arguement.

Are we acutally going to start debating the tactics involved in this whole thing now? Why not play out an apocalypse game with air / anti air et al and see how many of those units survive, destroy tank columns etc etc etc.

I'm not in anyway suggesting the Jedi's would be invincible if you plonked 'em in a cockpit, but I am saying that they have mroe tactical options available to them than just being on foot.

Any more???

The Space Marines have something called a fleet in orbit and drop pods before the jedi could react their main leaders would be dead and their ship bays completely destroyed then a small tactical missile would destroy half the remaining jedi and then the slaughter would begin. Jedi probably have never faced anything compared to the space marines, the space marines are relentless and would slaughter everything in their path for humanity, as in their eyes the Jedi are traitiors and harbor Xenos and should be slaughtered for that. You can't make someone who is basically hating you in the start and wants to kill you and force trick them into killing their brother because that wouldn't happen.

Space marines would keep bombarding primary targets and slaughter the pilots.

Then Elite terminator squads come in slaughter all of the jedi and tear through them

Space marine assualt squads would be deployed via storm ravens and thunder hawks and drop pods and would cut off major areas of supplies and bolt pistol their way through the jedi lines. Face it the space marines in their full strength and under the leadership of a Highly Trained Chapter Master and the Chapter Council would mean = instant slaughter. A Space Marine Chapter is like fighting an entire regiment of guardsmen of walking tanks.

Except for that whole pesky premonition thing. Unless another Jedi is actively shielding your Space Marines, I doubt they'd be caught unaware.

The problem is we don't have a defined power level set for the "average" Jedi, as sourclams has said previously but has been conveniently ignored. We don't know if terminators/marines/etc would tear through Jedi or not. Without an accepted power level for them, they are essentially a question mark.

Question. If we took a Camero and set it next to a giant black box that has a car inside - could be any car in the world, including something never before seen - which would you say is better? The Camero - the black box - or would you say you couldn't, because what's in the box is unknown?

Nerivant wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:
I wasn't the one who brought it up
Just saying comparing a Space Marine who is indoctranited through horrible means that would scare normal humans is more potent than storm troopers
A fully armed Space Marine Chapter vs a Fully Armed Jedi Force is like pitting a Dragon vs a Dog. The dragon of course being a Komodo Dragon (space marines) vs the Dog. Which in itself means the jedi are screwed.
Plus this agruement has been completely argued to death. So I vote for closing this thread.

Yes, I brought it up. Then you argued against it, and I refuted your argument. Not sure what you mean by that, but I'm glad you've accepted that you were wrong.


So... the Jedi could defeat the Space Marines, but it would take a bit of luck to avoid dying, or they'll both die? What are you trying to convey with that metaphor, exactly?

You know a Dog a tamed dog vs a Komodo dragon, the most dangerous animal on the planet vs a tamed animal...... Hmmmm
It basically means jedi = dead when facing a full chapter of space marines who are fully equiped. very few would surivive it I highly doubt a Jedi army would survive such a threat.

The Space Marines have something called a fleet in orbit and drop pods before the jedi could react their main leaders would be dead and their ship bays completely destroyed then a small tactical missile would destroy half the remaining jedi and then the slaughter would begin. Jedi probably have never faced anything compared to the space marines, the space marines are relentless and would slaughter everything in their path for humanity, as in their eyes the Jedi are traitiors and harbor Xenos and should be slaughtered for that. You can't make someone who is basically hating you in the start and wants to kill you and force trick them into killing their brother because that wouldn't happen.

Space marines would keep bombarding primary targets and slaughter the pilots.

Then Elite terminator squads come in slaughter all of the jedi and tear through them

Space marine assualt squads would be deployed via storm ravens and thunder hawks and drop pods and would cut off major areas of supplies and bolt pistol their way through the jedi lines. Face it the space marines in their full strength and under the leadership of a Highly Trained Chapter Master and the Chapter Council would mean = instant slaughter. A Space Marine Chapter is like fighting an entire regiment of guardsmen of walking tanks.

Lmao! You're writing a scenario to suit your arguement, which isn't a fair and balanced assumption of the skills of either force. You're basically waving a blunt instrument about shouting "SPACE MARINES" at the top of your voice. It's counter productive and taking any 'educational enjoyment' out of the thread.

As I see it, the Jedi have the tools required to fight any battle, any where. Be it a direct resource or something that they utilise through their allies, therefore saying Marines will bomb the out of the Jedi, and not expecting them to have anything to counter attack with is nothing short of ridiculous. You realise that the Marines are not fighting ants, but are up against a galactic force of Elite Peace Keepers with almost unlimited resources, that were only defeated by political manouvering and betrayal?

kitch102 wrote:

The Space Marines have something called a fleet in orbit and drop pods before the jedi could react their main leaders would be dead and their ship bays completely destroyed then a small tactical missile would destroy half the remaining jedi and then the slaughter would begin. Jedi probably have never faced anything compared to the space marines, the space marines are relentless and would slaughter everything in their path for humanity, as in their eyes the Jedi are traitiors and harbor Xenos and should be slaughtered for that. You can't make someone who is basically hating you in the start and wants to kill you and force trick them into killing their brother because that wouldn't happen.

Space marines would keep bombarding primary targets and slaughter the pilots.

Then Elite terminator squads come in slaughter all of the jedi and tear through them

Space marine assualt squads would be deployed via storm ravens and thunder hawks and drop pods and would cut off major areas of supplies and bolt pistol their way through the jedi lines. Face it the space marines in their full strength and under the leadership of a Highly Trained Chapter Master and the Chapter Council would mean = instant slaughter. A Space Marine Chapter is like fighting an entire regiment of guardsmen of walking tanks.

Lmao! You're writing a scenario to suit your arguement, which isn't a fair and balanced assumption of the skills of either force. You're basically waving a blunt instrument about shouting "SPACE MARINES" at the top of your voice. It's counter productive and taking any 'educational enjoyment' out of the thread.

As I see it, the Jedi have the tools required to fight any battle, any where. Be it a direct resource or something that they utilise through their allies, therefore saying Marines will bomb the out of the Jedi, and not expecting them to have anything to counter attack with is nothing short of ridiculous. You realise that the Marines are not fighting ants, but are up against a galactic force of Elite Peace Keepers with almost unlimited resources, that were only defeated by political manouvering and betrayal?

Plus it's all off topic.

Count me in for another vote to close the thread.

The Storm Trooper thing has been argued and agreed on. We've tried bringing it back on topic though now we're comparing warriors to animals?

Really?

CiaranAnnrach - liking your last analogy there

kitch102 wrote:

The Space Marines have something called a fleet in orbit and drop pods before the jedi could react their main leaders would be dead and their ship bays completely destroyed then a small tactical missile would destroy half the remaining jedi and then the slaughter would begin. Jedi probably have never faced anything compared to the space marines, the space marines are relentless and would slaughter everything in their path for humanity, as in their eyes the Jedi are traitiors and harbor Xenos and should be slaughtered for that. You can't make someone who is basically hating you in the start and wants to kill you and force trick them into killing their brother because that wouldn't happen.

Space marines would keep bombarding primary targets and slaughter the pilots.

Then Elite terminator squads come in slaughter all of the jedi and tear through them

Space marine assualt squads would be deployed via storm ravens and thunder hawks and drop pods and would cut off major areas of supplies and bolt pistol their way through the jedi lines. Face it the space marines in their full strength and under the leadership of a Highly Trained Chapter Master and the Chapter Council would mean = instant slaughter. A Space Marine Chapter is like fighting an entire regiment of guardsmen of walking tanks.

Lmao! You're writing a scenario to suit your arguement, which isn't a fair and balanced assumption of the skills of either force. You're basically waving a blunt instrument about shouting "SPACE MARINES" at the top of your voice. It's counter productive and taking any 'educational enjoyment' out of the thread.

As I see it, the Jedi have the tools required to fight any battle, any where. Be it a direct resource or something that they utilise through their allies, therefore saying Marines will bomb the out of the Jedi, and not expecting them to have anything to counter attack with is nothing short of ridiculous. You realise that the Marines are not fighting ants, but are up against a galactic force of Elite Peace Keepers with almost unlimited resources, that were only defeated by political manouvering and betrayal?

Let me tell you something have you read the Space Marine Chapter Wars? Did you know that most of the chapters involved had chapter on chapter battles that almost decimated the entire sector? The Badab war is a great source for Chapter Warfare as Full Space Marine chapters were deployed leaving nothing but wastelands. Compared to the jedi where they barely could fight off a bunch of droids and there were what 500 droids vs 250 jedi?

The Space Marines have 6km ships and ships that could annihalt fighters. They have fighters and weapons that would make a Jedi stab himself in the face.

1,000 Space Marines is terrifying. Entire Rebelous Systems are subded by 1 chapter saying "Oh hell no." Then they come in and slaughter everything. Example read the iron hands tale of what they did to the entire population...

Asherian Command wrote:

Let me tell you something have you read the Space Marine Chapter Wars? Did you know that most of the chapters involved had chapter on chapter battles that almost decimated the entire sector? The Badab war is a great source for Chapter Warfare as Full Space Marine chapters were deployed leaving nothing but wastelands. Compared to the jedi where they barely could fight off a bunch of droids and there were what 500 droids vs 250 jedi?

The Space Marines have 6km ships and ships that could annihalt fighters. They have fighters and weapons that would make a Jedi stab himself in the face.

1,000 Space Marines is terrifying. Entire Rebelous Systems are subded by 1 chapter saying "Oh hell no." Then they come in and slaughter everything. Example read the iron hands tale of what they did to the entire population...

Whee, 'round and 'round we go,
dancing 'round the Camero!
What's in this black box?
Why, nobody knows!
But it's not as good as this Camero!

[See my last post to make sense of this one. And +1 to thread closing.]

Further question for Mr Annrach... Does the Camero turn in to a crazy cannon wielding robot from out of space? That could also trump the black box. Unless the black box is in actual fact a black box that turns in to an even bigger cannon totting robot from out of space.

I know this isn't on topic at all but I really feel like I need to HAMMER this point home, pointless as it may be, just for the sheer hell of it really.

Back to Asherian, no I haven't read that, sounds interesting, I'll make a point of checking it out. However, that's not relevant to the topic. The original question was would it take 2 or 5 companies of Marines to level the Jedi on an equal footing - page 1 if you want to double check. I don't believe that it could be done with 2 or 5 companies, though if you want to pitch multiple chapters against the Jedi, completely taking the question out of balance then please feel free, but I'll still be here, standing by my points.

The black box could turn into a bigger cannon totting robot from outer space! That's kinda the whole point - this entire thread is comparing a known variable to an unknown variable. While that second variable remains unknown, it's impossible to make a fair/accurate comparison.

kitch102 wrote:Further question for Mr Annrach... Does the Camero turn in to a crazy cannon wielding robot from out of space? That could also trump the black box. Unless the black box is in actual fact a black box that turns in to an even bigger cannon totting robot from out of space.

I know this isn't on topic at all but I really feel like I need to HAMMER this point home, pointless as it may be, just for the sheer hell of it really.

Back to Asherian, no I haven't read that, sounds interesting, I'll make a point of checking it out. However, that's not relevant to the topic. The original question was would it take 2 or 5 companies of Marines to level the Jedi on an equal footing - page 1 if you want to double check. I don't believe that it could be done with 2 or 5 companies, though if you want to pitch multiple chapters against the Jedi, completely taking the question out of balance then please feel free, but I'll still be here, standing by my points.

A chapter is 1,000 marines O.o

Yes, it is. But the OP refers to using 2 companies. ie, 200 Marines. Not 5000 Marines from 5 chapters as his friend states.

Can you let this move on now please?

kitch102 wrote:Yes, it is. But the OP refers to using 2 companies. ie, 200 Marines. Not 5000 Marines from 5 chapters as his friend states.

Can you let this move on now please?

yes I will matters on the two compainies doesn't it?
If it is 200 marines it really matters on those 200 marines are they newbs or are they veterans?
Or are they a mix?
So my safe bet is yes the 200 marines will win, if they are mixed or veterans, newbs will lose and the jedi win if the space marines are ultramarines regardless of company markings.

Did you just say that the Jedi would win if they faced the Ultramarines, irrespective of experience level of said Marines? So they could face down 200 Ultramarine vets, but would lose to, say, a mix of 100 Tactical Marines and 100 vets?

Did I get that right? Genuine question, apologies if it comes across as rude.

But that just doesn't make sense. How could they win against the Elite of one chapter, only to lose against a mix of troops from, say the Black Templars

Referring you back to Annrach's black box comment, which is probably the most sensible thing that's been said in this entire thread - the Jedi are, in gaming terms an unknown quantity. Add in that we don't actually know how many Jedi would be fighting and you really come round to saying that the questions unanswerable without a play through, as its too circumstancial. Which was actually said on page 2 of this thread (I think).

kitch102 wrote:Did you just say that the Jedi would win if they faced the Ultramarines, irrespective of experience level of said Marines? So they could face down 200 Ultramarine vets, but would lose to, say, a mix of 100 Tactical Marines and 100 vets?

Did I get that right? Genuine question, apologies if it comes across as rude.

But that just doesn't make sense. How could they win against the Elite of one chapter, only to lose against a mix of troops from, say the Black Templars

Referring you back to Annrach's black box comment, which is probably the most sensible thing that's been said in this entire thread - the Jedi are, in gaming terms an unknown quantity. Add in that we don't actually know how many Jedi would be fighting and you really come round to saying that the questions unanswerable without a play through, as its too circumstancial. Which was actually said on page 2 of this thread (I think).

Yes. Ultramarines suck, Black Templars do not Because if the 200 black templars don't kill you a thousand more will replace it