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Fair point.

I don't think they'll be doing a new steggy kit soon; the current one has aged really well and GW is pretty good about not pushing sales of kits right before updating them. I think there is just a strong market for people who want to run a dinosaur army, and some on the GW staff are excited about being able to offer it. I like seeing that excitement; theme and 'crazy stuff' is where Warhammer shines.

Do older armies, that are cheaper to buy, like stormcasts are still being played or are they too far away from the power curve?

Karol wrote:
Do older armies, that are cheaper to buy, like stormcasts are still being played or are they too far away from the power curve?

Stormcast aren't old and they aren't any much cheaper really - unless you're getting them through the Mortal Realms Magazine or the excess from that secondhand.
As for power curve they've never been at the top through 2.0. They are doing well, in fact most of the 2.0 Tomes appear in one form or another at events (its there that AoS is doing a LOT better than 40K in terms of army variety turning up); but they aren't at the head of the pack.

I ment the old stormcasts models. I really like how the shield guys and paladins looked like. Also the mounted dragon lancers and hammer guys. the new stormcasts look strange to me, too wierd and strange. And not very knightly either.

I am excited that Lizardmen are not weird memory space demons anymore, at least not all of them. I like my lizardmen flesh and blood!

But there aren't any old stormcast - the army is only about 5 years old ish. It's very new in general. Also the dragon lancers are some of the newer ones.

Old or new they've not really devalued and they are still on sale and all part of the same core army.

Like I said the only major discounts out there are starter sets and the Mortal Realms Magazine in the UK market which is having some effect on secondhand products "like new" on ebay and the like from the UK and other countries that get the magazine.

to me 5 years is extremly old. It is 1/3ed of my life.

Karol wrote:
to me 5 years is extremly old. It is 1/3ed of my life.

To me 5 years is about a tenth of my life. 'Old' is a subjective term.

For me I started warhammer in the 90s and its been over twenty years of GW lol.

I think most armies are fine against each other. There is just always a subset of roughly three armies that have gross OP builds that ruin it for everything else.

I think the older stormcast initial release models and their builds can have fun games against armies like Gitz, or Khorne, or Slaves of Lol///er... darkness. They can even have fun against flesh eater courts of slaanesh provided the player for flesh eater courts or slaanesh isn't bringing his baby seal clubbing list.

Against the baby-seal clubbing lists, no I don't think those armies are fun to watch get ground up. But if you don't care about balance and are just there to throw dice and drink beer (or root beer if you are only 15 years old) then it shouldn't matter.

And to continue on, the higher power-curve for Stormcast is their Sacrosanct models like Sequitors, Evocators, Celistar Ballista(maybe, it got nerfed recently), plus Vanguard dudes with Longstrike Crossbows.

Liberators with a Staunch Defenders General and Castellant buff are still a tanky brick of a unit. However, the same combo done on Sequitors is just better.

Sequitors make out like bandits with their special weapon allocation; two per five and the champion's doesn't count. Liberators just get one per five. A majority of the unit's damage comes from those weapons, and the sequitors' ability to take more of them really shows.

NinthMusketeer wrote:Fair point.

I don't think they'll be doing a new steggy kit soon; the current one has aged really well and GW is pretty good about not pushing sales of kits right before updating them. I think there is just a strong market for people who want to run a dinosaur army, and some on the GW staff are excited about being able to offer it. I like seeing that excitement; theme and 'crazy stuff' is where Warhammer shines.

Then again, we just got a new version of the Chaos Knights even if it's just for the SC box


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:
to me 5 years is extremly old. It is 1/3ed of my life.

I don't mean any offense, but this explains a lot.

Chaos knights and warriors are weird, afaik there aren't any other units that got SC-exclusive updates while their preexisting kit was also continued. I'm happy GW did continue those kits because I like them, though.

 Ghaz wrote:

Karol wrote:
to me 5 years is extremly old. It is 1/3ed of my life.

To me 5 years is about a tenth of my life. 'Old' is a subjective term.

Yep.
I wish I still had Karol's perspective on time.

 Overread wrote:
But there aren't any old stormcast - the army is only about 5 years old ish. It's very new in general. Also the dragon lancers are some of the newer ones.

There is a marked quality difference in model looks between 1st ed "space marine" stormcast and Sacrosanct, enough to mark them as "new". There is also visible power gap between the oldest units (paladins, liberators etc.) and the Sacrosanct, to the point there is no real reason to ever take the older models in your army. Sacrosanct may as well be all the Stormcast have rn, aside from a handful units like vanguard raptors.

Generally speaking, if you were to start SCE, only buy the sacrosanct, even if you don't play competitively they're just overall better.

Yeah the Sacrosanct are definitely superior to the earlier versions, and personally I think they fit the ‘feel’ of Stormcast better atm.

And trying to be more positive, with the release of the Seraphon that’s all the surviving original fantasy miniatures now covered isn’t it?

Though don't forget that castigators are the exception--they suck.

They do suck, but that's one bad unit in a pile of good ones (lord exorcist is also very much meh). The rest are all basic units+1.

Updated the first post now that Seraphon are on the cards.

Whole game is now running 2.0. Also it seems that Seraphon didn't lose any models from the range, which is a great thing to see! And with two getting started sets, both with very good value, its a great time to start the lizards!



Plus with the whole game now running 2.0 its a brilliant time to locally encourage more people into the game. With new players safe to chose any of the armies and have up to date rules and also not have to worry about potential mass removals of models or whole armies (barring Forgeworld options)


In fact moving forward I'd expect AoS to now adopt a more normal GW release pattern. Seeing new models released to add to armies and replace older sculpts; with removals now being a rarity and typical done at the same time as adding new models to the army.

Brings me to another thought, the mention of AoS 2.0.

Will GW stop releasing new Editions of games? Introduce more sweeping changes to rulesets? I'm looking at it from a 40k perspective, where we're currently in 8th Edition, and Space Marines got two Codexes, a 1.0 and a 2.0 codex... And every army is getting new books that add more rules and things on to their existing books. There's also the change to frequent (compared to previous editions) FAQ's, rules balancing (as much good as it does, there's at least something close to an attempt being made)

Just a thought I had, looking at what seems to be a trend in 40k. The way the game plays now, compared to the initial release feels vastly different. And, with Wrath of the Everchosen having new faction rules in it as a campaign book, it looks like they may try something similar to their current wave of 40k Campaign/event books with loads of new rules in them (Psychic awakening)

 Thadin wrote:
Brings me to another thought, the mention of AoS 2.0.

Will GW stop releasing new Editions of games? Introduce more sweeping changes to rulesets? I'm looking at it from a 40k perspective, where we're currently in 8th Edition, and Space Marines got two Codexes, a 1.0 and a 2.0 codex... And every army is getting new books that add more rules and things on to their existing books. There's also the change to frequent (compared to previous editions) FAQ's, rules balancing (as much good as it does, there's at least something close to an attempt being made)

Just a thought I had, looking at what seems to be a trend in 40k. The way the game plays now, compared to the initial release feels vastly different. And, with Wrath of the Everchosen having new faction rules in it as a campaign book, it looks like they may try something similar to their current wave of 40k Campaign/event books with loads of new rules in them (Psychic awakening)

Nope.
Give it time & AoS 3.0 & 40k 9th will both come along. The question isn't IF, just WHEN.
Even if GW tells you this won't happen, swears to it on a stack of Bibles - all it will take to invalidate that talk is a dip in sales, a change in management, enough rules bloat, or some one coming up with the next brilliant idea that's incompatible with the current foundation. Or some combo of those. Wnen that happens? Bam. New edition time.

I like that new editions come along, it keeps things fresh. Yeah, there is an element of milking money from customers but if I didn't feel the product was worth it I wouldn't be buying.

I can see 3.0 being more of a clean up of the current rules system rather than a full re-write that we are more used to with new rules editions. I think if they also use it to add one or two new mechanics that will change enough. Add that to the FAQ/Errata over a few years and there's more htan enough ground to update with new Battletomes - esp with new models alongside etc....

Basically I'd see new editions cleaning things up rather than wholesale changing the game.

With not many core rules being there at all, changing only 1 would already massively change the game

Questen is just if it will be better or worse in the long run with the updates of the Faction rules

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like that new editions come along, it keeps things fresh. Yeah, there is an element of milking money from customers but if I didn't feel the product was worth it I wouldn't be buying.

I'd be less opposed to new editions if:

a) GW actually learned anything from previous editions.

b) They didn't result in more models/options being removed from my army.

I don't think we will see a full blown new edition, probably just like the 1.0 - 2.0 transition. However GW being GW this probably means they'll continue the trend of changing army direction after releasing a few books, leaving those armies woefully underpowered compared to the ones that come out after their change in design philosophy. And the seemingly alternating whether the "for fun" group or the "powergamer" group writes books leading to random power gaps.

They already release the GHB every summer. That might as well be the edition update, as we’re already buying books for it.

 vipoid wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I like that new editions come along, it keeps things fresh. Yeah, there is an element of milking money from customers but if I didn't feel the product was worth it I wouldn't be buying.

I'd be less opposed to new editions if:

a) GW actually learned anything from previous editions.

b) They didn't result in more models/options being removed from my army.

That would be nice.

Wayniac wrote:
I don't think we will see a full blown new edition, probably just like the 1.0 - 2.0 transition. However GW being GW this probably means they'll continue the trend of changing army direction after releasing a few books, leaving those armies woefully underpowered compared to the ones that come out after their change in design philosophy. And the seemingly alternating whether the "for fun" group or the "powergamer" group writes books leading to random power gaps.

I agree. I think at this point Games Workshop can only generate a new edition if they hard reset everything again. The problem with 4-6 pages of core rules is few people want to pay $60 dollars for them. Even now, I only use all of two pages from the 40k BRB (the deployment areas). My Age of Sigmar book sees a little more use only in that it is the gamer version so the 2019 Battleplans are in there. Beyond that, I occasionally have to refer to the Wizard rules. I only picked up these books since I wasn't sure how much my opponent would be bothered by me not having them and I wasn't sure exactly how much was or wasn't contained within.

If either 40k or AoS create a new edition with the same single-digit number of pages for rules, I am most certainly not buying them even if they the greatest miniatures war gaming rules ever (which they most certainly won't be). Games Workshop has painted themselves into a corner unless they want to redo everything. Even that comes with a risk in that it has to both be meatier, more balanced and generally funner for me to want to drop cash on it. I am not not the kinda of player to just start playing the latest version of a game because it is the latest version of a game. Heck, I still play a modified version of Bolt Action 1st edition since I don't really care for templates and pretty much any of the changes I heard about with 2nd edition dropped.

I could see me maybe picking up a gamer version of the BRB as I said, the battleplans in the AoS one isn't too bad. I don't see me dropping good money for book half full of mostly recycled lore though only to get less than a dozen actual rules though.

I just hope that if they reboot the rules they take out the double turn. That’s really all I want right now.