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So I guess we all know. Assualting....blows big bloody chuncks in 6th Edition and because of that. Taking an assault ork army no matter how good against a very well built. Superior shooting army who knows how to use it and all its tricks will loose every time....I seen it...I hear it happen.

So what do you think will need to happen in the Next Ork Codex and what new rules will they need to once again become the Superior Close Combat Fighting force and something that is not to be taken lightly in this new pro shooting edition?


Is it even possible? Or will we be waiting 8 more years for 7th edition to come out and than only to watch as the rules change again and hope assaulting is more powerful or more balanced with shooting like it was in 5th?

It IS possible. Halving the point costs and charging a hefty tax for shoota would probably do it.

Likely, probably not.

Teleportas
Lifta-droppa
Ork Drop Pod, or change their deepstriking to follow the same rules as drop pods (such as smaller mishap chance and half can arrive 1st turn).
Looted Landraider giving the 14 armor all around

Perm Fearless for orks (without raising their price)
Bring Back Mob Up
Being able to create a New Warlord of the current warlord falls.

I could go on and on - basically since they went back to a lot of second edition rules I would like to see them bring back second edition orks.

I don't think large points reduction is the way to go, even at 6 points/boy you're already bulky and hard to maneuver around the table.

People mention 6+ FNP, which might be nice. I personally would like to see the trukk get a jink save, or better yet a result on the ramshackle table that keeps the trukk runnin'.

I kind of think they might get some stuff that ignores overwatch, because GW's thing these days seem to be making rules that ignore other rules.

Letting kommandos assault out of infiltrate again might help.

Maybe giving nobs a special rule for challenges would restore the PK nob to a position of fear--maybe they get to make their strikes in a challenge even if they die.

Oh god, what he said - no more boyz. Instead ways to get the same number of boyz further down the table.

Bring back both Mob up, and the rule where you "check for size" on assault and if you roll equal to or less than the number of boyz in the squad, they get double Initiative for that round.

Overwatch is a minor problem, then template weapons, insta-remove, AP weapons or digging through terrain.

Something else that might be interesting, is the KFF opening up a warp (teleporta) which would bring all units with the 4+ cover directly into melee with a Target Unit.

I'd like it if the Orks had a good fire support tank that wasn't based around transport capacity, something to advance with the army and provide a threat while still being out of range. The problem with Lootas, to me, is that anything can kill them and they fall behind the army, seems to me they'd be more suited to a static shooting army than an assault based one. I'd just really like it if the orks had something like say :
Blastawagon
1 TL Zzap gun, 2 TL KMB:s, av 12/11/0, low point cost say 70 or smth.
Flakkwagon
1 Kwadgun (w/e) a some sort of multishot AA/anti-infantry weapon, 2x TL Supa-Shoota, again something like 60 pts, we want them cheap above all.

Boy squads really need some special CCW:s hidden, some Big Choppas / PK's / Burnas for the normal boyz, without that they're not scary in close combat unless they massively outnumber their enemies, S3/4 close combat attacks just aren't scary even in large numbers.

Drop Pod style things would also be great as everybody already said, think the Roks Ghaz used on Armageddon. Bigger drop pods with a bunch of guns, that's what we'd like.

+1 str for all orks (replaces furious charge)
6+ feel no pain for all orks (includes all models with similiar stat lines)

5pts per boy Boyz can take big choppas for 3 pts per model. Max 5 per unit.

warbosses get 5+ feel no pain

Painboyz 1-3 per army. May join any unit as retinue. Improve feel no pain rolls by 1.

During waagh orks get furious charge and fleet. Snake eyes greates animosity during fleet. Orks who charge must use fleet.

I also have an idea that orks units may take grots which all orks can use to allocate look out sir (even normal boyz). Grots also take no space from trasports (eg trukk can have 12 orks and 12 grots, pentrating hits kill d3 grots). Applies also to ammo runts, grot orderlies etc..

 Rautakanki wrote:

Flakkwagon
1 Kwadgun (w/e) a some sort of multishot AA/anti-infantry weapon, 2x TL Supa-Shoota, again something like 60 pts, we want them cheap above.

Big Trakks are available in imperial armour vol. 8 they are 0-3 heavies with tl big shootas av 12/11/10. They weigh in at half a century points wize and then take a big gun for upgrades, anything from a Zappa to a supa kannon.


I definitely agree with Illuknisaa on the Sanguinary priest style pain boyz and the upgrade able boyz weapons and fnp.

Alternatively I feel a new army rule of Iz dat all you got? Where all orks in cc get so caught up in the enjoyment of krumping and sustained by their bodies superb abillity to withstand damage that they don't realise their dead. Therefore all ork casualties aren't removed until after their own initiative steps and they have made their attacks.

 illuknisaa wrote:
I also have an idea that orks units may take grots which all orks can use to allocate look out sir (even normal boyz). Grots also take no space from trasports (eg trukk can have 12 orks and 12 grots, pentrating hits kill d3 grots). Applies also to ammo runts, grot orderlies etc..

I've never been a big fan of Gretchins. I have always thought of them as cowardly and once the FAQ took away mob rule from the Runtherd it almost instantly removed the Gretchin meat shield units from my lists. Actually this made sense to me. I tend to not make Gretchins brave (yes, I know it's fluff), but a Gretchin would never jump in front of a bullet for an Ork, in fact they would do the opposite and scurry around using the orks as their shields.

I do like the Grot crew idea on all transports. I can certainly see an Ork grabbing a Grot (or 3) to plug up holes in their ride. So basically it would work as a save. Vehicle takes a Glance or a Pen. Roll d3 (remove grots) and then roll a 4+ save - can do once per attack. Also, as long as a Grot crew member is alive their BS is 3.

 Sleg wrote:

 illuknisaa wrote:
I also have an idea that orks units may take grots which all orks can use to allocate look out sir (even normal boyz). Grots also take no space from trasports (eg trukk can have 12 orks and 12 grots, penetrating hits kill d3 grots). Applies also to ammo runts, grot orderlies etc..

I've never been a big fan of Gretchins. I have always thought of them as cowardly and once the FAQ took away mob rule from the Runtherd it almost instantly removed the Gretchin meat shield units from my lists. Actually this made sense to me. I tend to not make Gretchins brave (yes, I know it's fluff), but a Gretchin would never jump in front of a bullet for an Ork, in fact they would do the opposite and scurry around using the orks as their shields.

I do like the Grot crew idea on all transports. I can certainly see an Ork grabbing a Grot (or 3) to plug up holes in their ride. So basically it would work as a save. Vehicle takes a Glance or a Pen. Roll d3 (remove grots) and then roll a 4+ save - can do once per attack. Also, as long as a Grot crew member is alive their BS is 3.

I didn't actually think that grots would sacrifice themselves inorder to save the ork that has bullied them but instead orks grabbing some random grot near them to shelter from bullets or shrapnel.

The point of grots in traports is that people would use them even normal orks take majority (or all) space inside a transport.

Same difference. I still can't see an Ork Hiding behind a Grot or using Gretchins for protection, it still doesn't work for me.
The reason it's called 'look out sir' is because a brave soldier is taking the bullet for their boss. Basically he is yelling "LOOK OUT, Sir" and jumping in front of a bullet. I would go so far as to say Orks should not even have Look Out Sir, let's be honest they really don't care that much if their boss dies.
But I would say that they would never run away from a fight and even if there was the entire Imperium baring down on a handful of Orks, they would still believe they could take them on. They do not possess the Flight instinct.

if orks get a drop pod, it should scatter the full amount, inflict a S10 hit on anything it lands on, destroy any terrain it lands on, and orks don't come out 'till the following turn, they haven't perfected not-dying if they try and jump out as it lands. which has it's pros and cons, i'd have it a closed-topped AV11 assault vehicle with no fire points, so easily destroyed, you can charge from it but the orks inside are useless the turn they arrive. kinda balances methinks.

I'd like to see warkoptas brought in for orks, but as fliers (why they decided a helicopter is a skimmer not a flyer i don't know), flying transport is always a bonus, and i'd love to see them in squadrons of 3, able to take a unit of 30 orks, but the orks inside a kopta which is destroyed in flight are destroyed. they'd have to be cheap, and you wouldn't put your warlord in 'em.

I'd also love to see grots in units of up to 40, and taking up 1/2 transport capacity - 40 grots in a wagon. the shooting could be too much, perhaps make it so only half of them can shoot out (the other half are being stood on so the first half can see!).

trukks should have the 5+ invuln from the ramshackle stuff, like grot tanks, and should also have the ordnance causes much damage effects as well, maybe not the outright destruction though. 2 HP instead of 1?

i'd love to see ork transport capacities being like 12(18), meaning 12 safely 6 more clinging on, each taking dangerous terrain every time the vehicle moves flat-out, over difficult/dangerous terrain and automatically lost if the vehicle rams, and the vehicle gets a 5+ cover save, which if passed kills a clinger-on - basically it's covered in bodies they might hit instead! it also gives scope to better assaults from trukks, and gives trukks some survivability!

 some bloke wrote:
if orks get a drop pod, it should scatter the full amount, inflict a S10 hit on anything it lands on, destroy any terrain it lands on, and orks don't come out 'till the following turn, they haven't perfected not-dying if they try and jump out as it lands. which has it's pros and cons, i'd have it a closed-topped AV11 assault vehicle with no fire points, so easily destroyed, you can charge from it but the orks inside are useless the turn they arrive. kinda balances methinks.

I'd like to see warkoptas brought in for orks, but as fliers (why they decided a helicopter is a skimmer not a flyer i don't know), flying transport is always a bonus, and i'd love to see them in squadrons of 3, able to take a unit of 30 orks, but the orks inside a kopta which is destroyed in flight are destroyed. they'd have to be cheap, and you wouldn't put your warlord in 'em.

I'd also love to see grots in units of up to 40, and taking up 1/2 transport capacity - 40 grots in a wagon. the shooting could be too much, perhaps make it so only half of them can shoot out (the other half are being stood on so the first half can see!).

trukks should have the 5+ invuln from the ramshackle stuff, like grot tanks, and should also have the ordnance causes much damage effects as well, maybe not the outright destruction though. 2 HP instead of 1?

i'd love to see ork transport capacities being like 12(18), meaning 12 safely 6 more clinging on, each taking dangerous terrain every time the vehicle moves flat-out, over difficult/dangerous terrain and automatically lost if the vehicle rams, and the vehicle gets a 5+ cover save, which if passed kills a clinger-on - basically it's covered in bodies they might hit instead! it also gives scope to better assaults from trukks, and gives trukks some survivability!

You have some quality ideas.

ork drop pods

waaagh has to actualy do something useful!(maybe all orks are +1init and increased charge distance)

orks aren't afraid to fight and die, they need a better leadership score or just to be fearless

FNP

i also like the idea others mentioned bout any unit being able to add a painboy to it.

ork trukks either need to be more sturdy or far less devistating when they explode

orks having a 1 higher ws in general wouldn't hurt either

 Sleg wrote:
Same difference. I still can't see an Ork Hiding behind a Grot or using Gretchins for protection, it still doesn't work for me.
The reason it's called 'look out sir' is because a brave soldier is taking the bullet for their boss. Basically he is yelling "LOOK OUT, Sir" and jumping in front of a bullet. I would go so far as to say Orks should not even have Look Out Sir, let's be honest they really don't care that much if their boss dies.
But I would say that they would never run away from a fight and even if there was the entire Imperium baring down on a handful of Orks, they would still believe they could take them on. They do not possess the Flight instinct.

ork dex p. 50

Read "It's a Grot's life"

 some bloke wrote:
1.if orks get a drop pod, it should scatter the full amount, inflict a S10 hit on anything it lands on, destroy any terrain it lands on, and orks don't come out 'till the following turn, they haven't perfected not-dying if they try and jump out as it lands. which has it's pros and cons, i'd have it a closed-topped AV11 assault vehicle with no fire points, so easily destroyed, you can charge from it but the orks inside are useless the turn they arrive. kinda balances methinks.

2.I'd like to see warkoptas brought in for orks, but as fliers (why they decided a helicopter is a skimmer not a flyer i don't know), flying transport is always a bonus, and i'd love to see them in squadrons of 3, able to take a unit of 30 orks, but the orks inside a kopta which is destroyed in flight are destroyed. they'd have to be cheap, and you wouldn't put your warlord in 'em.

3.I'd also love to see grots in units of up to 40, and taking up 1/2 transport capacity - 40 grots in a wagon. the shooting could be too much, perhaps make it so only half of them can shoot out (the other half are being stood on so the first half can see!).

4.trukks should have the 5+ invuln from the ramshackle stuff, like grot tanks, and should also have the ordnance causes much damage effects as well, maybe not the outright destruction though. 2 HP instead of 1?

5.i'd love to see ork transport capacities being like 12(18), meaning 12 safely 6 more clinging on, each taking dangerous terrain every time the vehicle moves flat-out, over difficult/dangerous terrain and automatically lost if the vehicle rams, and the vehicle gets a 5+ cover save, which if passed kills a clinger-on - basically it's covered in bodies they might hit instead! it also gives scope to better assaults from trukks, and gives trukks some survivability!

1. I really don't the idea of ork drop pods (while they sound fun to use). Ork roks are asteroids which orks use the make a planetfall. It's hard to imagine multible smaller asteroids as those should burn up in the atmosphere.

3. Who would put 40 grots in a bw? Who would put 40 grots in a bw when only 20 can shoot? How does this help orks in assult?

4. or the smoke cloud from bikers. Also ramshackle is pretty good as it is now. Maybe it could easier if the chances of not blowing up were better.

5. This sounds really fun.

 illuknisaa wrote:


ork dex p. 50

Read "It's a Grot's life"

Yep read it. sure throw a bunch of Gretchins into a mine field, is a lot different than cowering behind one.

So I'm trying to figure out what exactly was your point?

Ork sees incoming enemy fire.

Ork grabs something that isn't nailed down.

Ork shelter himself from enemy fire.

I'm not saying that an ork would actually crouch behind a grot.

Orks don't need to be a top-tier assault army. They work well as a jack-of-all-trades force, like marines.

That said, I think that giving them some way to reduce enemy Initiative to 1 would help a lot. That makes sure that they actually get their attacks before dying, especially the vital Power Klaw ones. Stikkbombs granting this effect seems like an obvious way to go, probably with some minor limitation or drawback (like roll a dice when you use them - on a one, they affect your unit instead).

 illuknisaa wrote:
Ork sees incoming enemy fire.

Ork grabs something that isn't nailed down.

Ork shelter himself from enemy fire.

I'm not saying that an ork would actually crouch behind a grot.

That's not 'look out sir'. what you are saying is that the very brave grot will jump in front of an ork yelling "LOOK OUT, SIR" and take a bullet for them.
But, I still can't see an Ork grabbing a grot inside a vehicle to protect himself from enemy fire. If fact I can an Ork believe they can take the shot instead of hiding behind something because they can't go to ground.

My understanding is that LoS would include stuff like "grabs the nearest git and shoves him in the way"

Maybe have the Waaagh! allow running and assaulting, at the current drawback of rolling a double 1 (or possibly any failed charge) causes a wound with saves allowed.

With Ghazkull's Waaagh! Allowing any unit to roll 3D6 for charges instead of 2?

I've been working on a modified WAAAGH based on a suggested idea in one of these Ork threads - roll 2d6 on a table and add modifiers for the number of Ork units in CC.

This is what I've got sofar. Would be keen as on any suggestions

 Deadshot wrote:
Maybe have the Waaagh! allow running and assaulting, at the current drawback of rolling a double 1 (or possibly any failed charge) causes a wound with saves allowed.

With Ghazkull's Waaagh! Allowing any unit to roll 3D6 for charges instead of 2?

jup! bring back the power of the waaagh! again higher Initiative and running/ assaulting. would kill for that!

I wouldn't like like to see a drop pod variant in orks. Keep them with the marines in regular warhammer. Have a drop rok or whatever in apocalypse sure, but I just dont see it working in regular games. Roks aren't exactly portrayed as being a small thing like a drop pod or mycetic spore coming in, more like a starship crashing to the ground. Hence why I feel they don't belong.

For things that would help assault, I think anything that helps mobility around the table is good. So a teleporter variant like whats been suggested or some deep strike troops that dont suck, even a warkopta transport so I can have little kopta brigades. If a change was to be made for the waaagh phase, it could just be an additional benefit for slugga boys. Like giving the +3" movement in the waaagh turn or FNP for that turn so they dont get as boned by overwatch. It might tempt me to take them.

I would like to see the old mob up rules brought back as well. And nob's choppas to reduce armour saves to 4+ like they used to.

i'd love to see ork transport capacities being like 12(18), meaning 12 safely 6 more clinging on, each taking dangerous terrain every time the vehicle moves flat-out, over difficult/dangerous terrain and automatically lost if the vehicle rams, and the vehicle gets a 5+ cover save, which if passed kills a clinger-on - basically it's covered in bodies they might hit instead! it also gives scope to better assaults from trukks, and gives trukks some survivability!

Or you could have no specified transport capacity, however many models you can physically put on is how many it takes. Any that fall off when you move it are casualties.

Or you could have no specified transport capacity, however many models you can physically put on is how many it takes. Any that fall off when you move it are casualties.

Problem with that is that many Ork players like to build their own models. Then when you've got a model with different dimensions that can carry more Orks than normal, a lot of people will call that MFA

 Dakkamite wrote:

Or you could have no specified transport capacity, however many models you can physically put on is how many it takes. Any that fall off when you move it are casualties.

Problem with that is that many Ork players like to build their own models. Then when you've got a model with different dimensions that can carry more Orks than normal, a lot of people will call that MFA

The Collander Style transports was a Rule Once upon a time ..a couple of decades back ..It did not work then It will not work now ..

As to Assulty ..well The Ideas on how to fix orks has alrady been tossed out there ..and the biggest ones are ..

MegaNobz and FlashGitz moved under Nobz as Specialized Nob Units ..(They are so why are they spread out)

Lootas are a Heavy Support and Should be able to take a dedicated transport..no other alteration required
Points are Good on Lootas

Tankbustas ..dedicated Transport ..and TANKHUNTER USR

Kommandoes..Assult upon deep strike with Hero
StromBoyz..Good atm ..need to be cheaper

Dedicated Transport should be Trukk or Battle Wagon ..(SO 12 or 20 )

Mob up Rule ..This one got yanked from orks for 4th and never got given back ..it needs to be there

Give Skarboyz back ..NO Nobz are not Skarboyz they are a step above scareboyz...







.

Oh man, I remember Skarboyz and would love to see them back. They'd benefit Trukk lists enormously.

Tankbustas should be our premier monster killers as well - we need some, it makes them more useful and fits perfectly well with their fluff to boot.

Give Tankbustas Pref. Enemy (Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures) and Monster Hunter as well. Make them cheaper. Bomb Squigs can target monsters. Unlimited Tankbustas can swap out rokkits for hammers. Make "Glory Hogs" confer a bonus as well as a penalty - ie, become fearless when in range of a vehicle or monster that triggers it. Probably benefit from a scout move if not infiltration, to help them get down the table on foot to use their relatively short range weapons.

Kommandos either far cheaper or, as you said, assault from outflanking (or both). Able to get shootas. Stealth or at least stealth (terrain).

Pretty simple stuff, but by god it'd make a difference.

Oh, so many ideas.... so lets see.

Problem 1: Ork vehicles frequently die before getting anywhere, leaving their passengers to cross no mans land on foot. (ugh!)
Solution 1: Kustom Force Fields are a one-turn-use, 2+ invul save against all ranged attacks for everything within 6" of the big mek. You'd activate them after getting hit, but before pen/wounds were rolled. They work until the end of your next turn.

Problem 2: Orks frequently win combat on a charge, and either break or sweeping advance the other unit. Then they sit around getting shot to pieces for a turn.
Solution 2: Instead of consolidating, Orks may charge instead. Units may still fire overwatch at the charging orks. If the orks make it into base to base contact with the squad being charged, they are simply locked in melee. Neither side gets to attack this turn.