Useless units

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**DrSchwartz**

Hey all,

Many armies out there have those nearly useless units in them that can either do nothing or are to expensive for what they are worth. The dilemma is they may have pretty cool models or could be useful.

So anyway if you could change something about one of these units what would you do (within reason, don't go giving your infiltrators hurricane bolter arms, think more stat wise)

Thanks,

**Peregrine**

Wrong forum. YMDC is for rule questions, you're looking for the proposed rules forum.

**Largeblastmarker**

mutilators and vespids? also most of the SoB stuff :C

**Spetulhu**

Well, a mod can move it. Personally I'd wish SoB Celestians had models and options to actually do what their special rules suggest, that is try melee. Now they have an Act of Faith good for melee but can't get gear for it, not even bolt pistol and CCW for an extra attack.

**PrinceRaven**

Pyrovores: Toughness 5, Increase Flamespurt's AP to 3, minor points bump.
Old One Eye: Toughness 7, 5-6 Wounds, Leadership 10, Armoured Shell (2+ save), Feel No Pain & It Will Not Die.
Harpy: Bonded Exoskeleton (3+ save), 20 points reduction.
Lictor: Ability to assault after deep striking.
Tyrannofex: 70 points reduction.

**insaniak**

Moved to Proposed Rules...

**Sgt_Smudge**

Not a unit but still, IG Shotguns, make them Str 4 like SM ones

**CloudRider**

Orks
Standard Ork Boy
Option for 'Extra Training'
Gives Bs3 for 2 points per model.
This would allow me to actually play Orks with a bit of strategy...
Whether the two points is to much I don't mind.
I need accuracy

**DrSchwartz**

Thanks for all the replies guys

Sorry I didn't check the descriptions on the forums - will do next time

**Dakkamite**

Sorry man, but thats a terrible, terrible idea.

Orks don't need and should never get accuracy. Instead of firing one rokkit at BS 3 they fire two at BS 2. Theres nothing at all less strategic about that.

Not to mention Shoota boyz are hardly useless. Sluggas on the other hand... but they don't give a damn about BS 3!

My useless unit is Flash Gits. They are the one exception to everything else in this post. They either need to be more accurate, or preferrably, twin linked or more shots. Plus way cheaper.

The other is the Blitzabomma. Bomms are hard to drop, and when you do, you get a small blast with S7 AP4 2d6 armour pen... thats just pure garbage, not even a single point of extra damage on the chart due to rubbish AP4.

**wallygator**

i think kommandos are cool, but useless. I like the idea of infiltrating a pk and 2 burnas, but if you can't assault after infiltrating or have a bigger squad, those guys will probably just take some casualties and run before they can hurt something.

**Sothas**

Chaos Space Marines. Give them stuborn. Problem mostly solved.

**DogofWar1**

Rhinos, or all SM transports that don't cost 200 points for that matter, give me a way to assault out of you.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sothas wrote:
Chaos Space Marines. Give them stuborn. Problem mostly solved.

That would be nice. Alternatively, incorporate ATSKNF with VotLW.

**Mezmerro**

DogofWar1 wrote:
Rhinos, or all SM transports that don't cost 200 points for that matter, give me a way to assault out of you.

It's more of a bringing back old disemvarkation system and overall bringing CC back to life in 6E. We have a [ur=http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/545811.pagel]special theme[/url] for it.

**sing your life**

Nephilim jetfighter:

Make it 140pts, replace the HBs with assualt cannons, replace missiles with twin-linked autocannon.

also Belial is good choice but I'd like to see him drop 20pts and have the TH/SS a 10pt upgrade.

**DogofWar1**

sing your life wrote:

also Belial is good choice but I'd like to see him drop 20pts and have the TH/SS a 10pt upgrade.

Yeah, I find any SC who is up around 200 points should have an AP2 weapon, even if it's the oldie but goodie bog standard powerfist. If they don't come in at AP2 at that price point, their weapon better have some really cool rules with it.

Like Ragnar. He was cool in 5th, but then practically all the changes hit him in the gut. Furious charge doesn't give the increase to initiative anymore, his Frost Blade became AP3, and all the while he costs almost as much as a Land Raider. And Njal is super expensive for what you get. He was already expensive, but at least you could handwave it when comparing him to some other guys like Tigurius, saying he only lost a single power per turn but gained that nifty turn-based psychic thing, but now, with ML2 psykers weighing in at about 100 pts, and ML3 guys like Ezekial coming in south of 150, he needs a hefty drop. Tigurius is supposed to be dropping a bunch, so I'm sure Njal will come down a lot when 6th drops though, which will be nice.

**Largeblastmarker**

While we are talking 'bout ap2 i think i should point out cato sicarius is definately not worth 200 points. he does have some major survivability against small arms but in cc he will die to alot of stuff. he needs an ap2 sword.

**Musashi363**

Warp talons with grenades, cheaper 1K sons with special/heavy weapons, something...anything to make mutilators usefull, variants for land raiders and berzerkers that are good in close combat.

**sing your life**

DogofWar1 wrote:
sing your life wrote:

also Belial is good choice but I'd like to see him drop 20pts and have the TH/SS a 10pt upgrade.

Yeah, I find any SC who is up around 200 points should have an AP2 weapon, even if it's the oldie but goodie bog standard powerfist. If they don't come in at AP2 at that price point, their weapon better have some really cool rules with it.

Actually i was making the TH/SS an upgrade because in its present form the option is superior to belial other weapons.

**DrSchwartz**

What about Mandrakes? What could you do to make them better?? I have no clue and would like to get an opinion on it

**ALEXisAWESOME**

Mandrakes can appear anywhere on the bored Marbo style and still assault. If the unit they are charging doesn't have line of sight to them, I.E you are charging there back, they don't get to over watch. Plus give them plasma grenades.

There, done. This means they can get that first PT easily AND get to tie up a range squad. I would take them

**BrotherOfBone**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Not a unit but still, IG Shotguns, make them Str 4 like SM ones

Shotguns suck ass anyway.. You're better off with a pistol and a CCW, because the point of shotguns is to gear up for assault.. If you're trying to just shoot with them, then why not just have a lasgun? It's got better range, FRFSRF etc.

**Xyptc**

Pyrovore
Torrent, Feel No Pain (it's basically braindead, even when it's alive), Regeneration when in cover (to represent it eating things to heal itself)

Problem solved!

**Rumbleguts**

Flying ripper swarms. Regular ones die fast enough, giving them wings so they can plow into the ground and kill themselves, priceless.

**PrinceRaven**

Xyptc wrote:Pyrovore
Torrent, Feel No Pain (it's basically braindead, even when it's alive), Regeneration when in cover (to represent it eating things to heal itself)

Problem solved!

Nope, they'd still suck.

Rumbleguts wrote:Flying ripper swarms. Regular ones die fast enough, giving them wings so they can plow into the ground and kill themselves, priceless.

Those already exist.

**Rumbleguts**

Hum, yes I know. Was just making a point of how useless they are. Haven't seen a suggestion for fixing ripper swarms that didn't start from the ground to rebuild them to make them useful.

**rohansoldier**

For Eldar:

Banshees : Give them grenades and the option to assault from a vehicle in the same turn.

Scorpions: Assault from infiltrate or outflank, otherwise they are golden.

Hawks: The ability to assault fliers with haywire grenades.

For CSM:

Warp Talons - Grenades, nuff said!

CSM Squads - Stubborn would be nice or make the fearless icon cheaper.

I would also like to see a Chaos only Land Raider variant with alternate weaponry and a bigger transport capacity.

Finally, and this is more of a fluff thing, units with a mark should be able to get the same benefits as cult troops, especially elite units like Terminators.

I.E. Death Guard Terminators should have +1T, -1I, Feel No Pain and Fearless like Plague Marines.

Hopefully this will come later in supplements.

**ninjafiredragon**

FALCONS and banshees

falcons are absolutly useless. every day of the week serepnts are better.

banshees just dont make the cut iether tho

**NL_Cirrus**

I would have to say triarch praetorians, destroyers, and flayed ones.

For praetorians give them more attacks. Having one attack as a close combat unit makes it useless, especially when their only melee weapon with ap is unwieldy.

For destroyers make them cheaper, jet bikes, or jet pack infantry.

Flayed ones need better armor, or a transport or the ability to assault out of reserves or just to be troops.

**'Nidsnik Boreork**

If I could change something about a unit, it would be the Flash Gitz.
Let me make this clear, I really want to like these guys, they are a kitbasher's dream, especially with all the bitz n' gubbinz the orks come with. But what turns me off of them isn't the high cost or even the fact that they take up a heavy slot. It is their total lack of options. Really? Only THREE special options? These gitz are the richest of the rich, but they couldn't pay to get some extra barrels, Kombi weapons or scopes. But why stop there? Their armor needs snazzing up! Perhaps a shiny set of plating with a 3+ save like Badrukk's, or a fancy cloak that functions as a bosspole with a 5+ save? Not to mention the fact that ALL the models in the unit must have the same upgrades. How uncreative can you be?

CloudRider wrote:
Orks
Standard Ork Boy
Option for 'Extra Training'
Gives Bs3 for 2 points per model.
This would allow me to actually play Orks with a bit of strategy...
Whether the two points is to much I don't mind.
I need accuracy

Ork boyz don't train. Stormboyz train, but they train to launch themselves ork-first at the enemy.