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 hellpato wrote:

Tazberry wrote:
So, anyone played vs any new-marine?
I have been taken more and more csm lately and only using my DP with skullreaver and some letter bombs.

Feels like letters will kill marines good, but hard to getting in vs all IH overwatch and if we keep 1/3 of our army offboard they can do a serious number on us and probably just clean up the rest after.

Here the wisdom of a MONO KHORNE DAEMONS player….. you need to think outside the box… If you do the Bloodletters bomb, you need to think outside the box how to use them… like deep strike them turn 3 when you are tarpitting a strong unit and you need the hammer to strike a head.

Out of curiosity, what are you tarpitting with? It doesn't seem like there's much in our arsenal that does a good job in that department. However, I'm fairly new to the army, so I could be very wrong on this.

 Battlesong wrote:

 hellpato wrote:

Tazberry wrote:
So, anyone played vs any new-marine?
I have been taken more and more csm lately and only using my DP with skullreaver and some letter bombs.

Feels like letters will kill marines good, but hard to getting in vs all IH overwatch and if we keep 1/3 of our army offboard they can do a serious number on us and probably just clean up the rest after.

Here the wisdom of a MONO KHORNE DAEMONS player….. you need to think outside the box… If you do the Bloodletters bomb, you need to think outside the box how to use them… like deep strike them turn 3 when you are tarpitting a strong unit and you need the hammer to strike a head.

Out of curiosity, what are you tarpitting with? It doesn't seem like there's much in our arsenal that does a good job in that department. However, I'm fairly new to the army, so I could be very wrong on this.

We have options. They aren't top tier meta, but Cultists are still a reasonable tarpit unit if you take them in MSUs, due to their morale trouble. Staying inside demons, Flesh Hounds are actually not /awful/ at Tarpitting, since they're pretty cheap for the size of their base and can perform multiple jobs, like physic denial and rushing down objectives.

And going CSM for warp talons to deny overwatch might seem like a ok choice but they are 120 points for just a 5man unit.

Trying to continually build around my Tzeentch daemons and adding Khorne for heavy hitters put since codex came I feel like I have been going more and more too CSM and then adding my khorne daemons. Usually taking 2 x 25 letters fully upgraded, 200 points each and a DP with skullreaver. Absolutely love my DP!!! Any of you haven’t tried him, JUST DO IT! So good a anything but 30 ork boys I think.

Next list I’m building have 2 Deredos and two units of havocs with either lascannon or ML then adding in my letters.

Any real list but Nurgle daemons that are good but might not be a obvious choice? Thinking of getting more Demonettes for a cheaper choice and can advance and charge.

I've seen Slaanesh demons do some work. Their new HQ units like the Contorted Epitome and Keeper of Secrets are pretty bangin, alongside the Infernal Enrapturess. Pink horror bombs are also viable, as are Flamer bombs. I've used 9 flamers near a herald to great success, especially by giving them +1 to wound. Who wouldn't want 9d6 heavy flamer shots at 12", with +1 to wound? Those pesky Primaris are getting wounded on 2s.

I've been trying a newer version of the old style TSons and Plaguebearers list using the Contorted Epitome and Syll'esske. It's doing well.

60 Plaguebearers, 20 bloodletters, brimstones, 6 nurglings Ahriman, 2 TSon DPs, Skullreaver Prince, epitome, sylesske and Scrivener.

There's some really nice synergies and there's loads of mele threats. And nobody has got through all the nurglings and plaguebearers yet.

I really like using epitome with gem + phantasmagoria and treason of tzeentch. If you get into a character bubble you can really give them some trouble.

 small_gods wrote:
I've been trying a newer version of the old style TSons and Plaguebearers list using the Contorted Epitome and Syll'esske. It's doing well.

60 Plaguebearers, 20 bloodletters, brimstones, 6 nurglings Ahriman, 2 TSon DPs, Skullreaver Prince, epitome, sylesske and Scrivener.

There's some really nice synergies and there's loads of mele threats. And nobody has got through all the nurglings and plaguebearers yet.

I really like using epitome with gem + phantasmagoria and treason of tzeentch. If you get into a character bubble you can really give them some trouble.

It's a good list, and if the mirror can keep sylessk and skullreaver safe for 1 turn in combat then the game is won in most cases. The real problem of this list archetype is that it gets countered by competitive marines, thunderfire cannon tremor shells will cripple your plaguebearers movement and easy access to BS2 and full rerolls will quickly focus them down, at which point the characters will be deleted, if they haven't already been sniped out by phobos captain or eliminators.

 Continuity wrote:

 small_gods wrote:
I've been trying a newer version of the old style TSons and Plaguebearers list using the Contorted Epitome and Syll'esske. It's doing well.

60 Plaguebearers, 20 bloodletters, brimstones, 6 nurglings Ahriman, 2 TSon DPs, Skullreaver Prince, epitome, sylesske and Scrivener.

There's some really nice synergies and there's loads of mele threats. And nobody has got through all the nurglings and plaguebearers yet.

I really like using epitome with gem + phantasmagoria and treason of tzeentch. If you get into a character bubble you can really give them some trouble.

It's a good list, and if the mirror can keep sylessk and skullreaver safe for 1 turn in combat then the game is won in most cases. The real problem of this list archetype is that it gets countered by competitive marines, thunderfire cannon tremor shells will cripple your plaguebearers movement and easy access to BS2 and full rerolls will quickly focus them down, at which point the characters will be deleted, if they haven't already been sniped out by phobos captain or eliminators.

Yeah there's definately some potential counters out there but at least PBs are still not caring about all the extra AP marines have got. Also those lists have to be relatively stationary and I play itc so generally hiding nurglings out of LOS can help keep characters alive.

Although there's a couple of Raven Guard lists in our local scene that I'm not looking forward to coming up against!

People keep saying that numarines are good at killing PBs but the fact is that PBs are still ridiculously tough.

With Chapter Master rerolls at BS2 you still need more than 150 bolter shots to kill a unit of 30. At BS3 (or Miasma) that's up to 180 shots. Marines have access to BS2 buffs but they can't affect every unit so in reality it's likely to be even more shots than this.

Even with heavy bolters or equivalent you still need 115 shots with full rerolls and BS2.

Yes, it is possible to kill them. But the amount of shooting it requires is disproportionate to the amount of points it costs to field them for even their best counters.

Regarding the list itself, I love the idea of Forbidden Gem, Epitome and Treason of Tzeentch all working together. That is a massive threat to any castle.

saint_red wrote:
People keep saying that numarines are good at killing PBs but the fact is that PBs are still ridiculously tough.

With Chapter Master rerolls at BS2 you still need more than 150 bolter shots to kill a unit of 30. At BS3 (or Miasma) that's up to 180 shots. Marines have access to BS2 buffs but they can't affect every unit so in reality it's likely to be even more shots than this.

Even with heavy bolters or equivalent you still need 115 shots with full rerolls and BS2.

Yes, it is possible to kill them. But the amount of shooting it requires is disproportionate to the amount of points it costs to field them for even their best counters.

Regarding the list itself, I love the idea of Forbidden Gem, Epitome and Treason of Tzeentch all working together. That is a massive threat to any castle.

The only thing that worries me about the new Marines lineup is agressors. Especially flame salamanders and bolter ironhands/imperial fists. That 2+ and ridiculous ammount of shots can be worrying, but not impossible to play around. You just need to smite as many off the board as you can before overwatch.

The fact that daemons ignore all of the new AP buffs on marines is huge.

Tremor shells definitely seem like the biggest hard counter to plaguebearers. But I don't expect to see them much outside of events, if only because thunderfire cannons aren't a very popular model and people don't necessarily have them lying around.

Yes flamers are really good! A herald near by for +1S and giving +1 to wound then if anyone wants to shoot them you buff them with stratagem for a 3++ so they survive a bit better and not that many units are allowed to do a charge outside 12” so we can burn any chargers still having +1 to wound.
Now I want more flamers. Hahaha

If anyone want some feedback for keepers of secrets, here’s one.
They are good and draws away fire from other stuffs. They are fast! In a pure Slaanesh detachment they mostly will hit enemy deployment with ease. They kill stuff in combat but if a unit like a Knight survives having taken any wounds from the sword they have a -1 to hit (I think).
Personally I feel like the shield is a trap for a 6+++ and you have more value from the hand that heal the keeper.

Played a necron list at 2000points and I just quickly made the list of something like this.

3 keepers of secrets
2 lord Discordant
2 DP skullreaver and Slaanesh sword
2 units letters
And some screen cultists or nurglings or something.

Turn one.
Two keepers charge with one Lord Discordant killing a lot of stuff and consolidating into something else.

Enemy T1.
Killing one Lord Discordant and a keeper. The ones that was left out open.

T2.
Letters DS on a flank and all my army charge and more or less obliterated his whole army and locking the rest in combat.

This was the first time mine skullreaver DP did not kill his target!!! Quantum shielding negating all wounds but the MW as I rolled so hot for 5 and 6s on D!

All in all, I did NOT except this to happen and anyone who wants a melee army can consider keepers. Or wants a distraction for 240 points.

I‘ve locked horns with KoS and field-tested my own yesterday

Pretty solid early distraction that absolutely has to be killed lest it start regenerating via Sinistrous Hand, and a brutal counter to early charge armies. My own Khorne Daemonkin went from Warptimed Waaagh to playing keep-away with like a Helbrute until the KoS was dealt with and I could consolidate into a denied flank and fight on my terms

Question:
I’m finalizing my list for a GT, and am trying to decide between:
1. A second min unit of Nurglings and 20x Pinks
2. 25 man Letter Bomb

The Letters have the potential for much more damage, but the Nurglings are a great screen, and the Pinks will never have an ineffectual charge.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Question:
I’m finalizing my list for a GT, and am trying to decide between:
1. A second min unit of Nurglings and 20x Pinks
2. 25 man Letter Bomb

The Letters have the potential for much more damage, but the Nurglings are a great screen, and the Pinks will never have an ineffectual charge.

I usually like to have one unit of letters in my lists just to diversify threats and give my opponent something extra to think about. I generally dont take two in case my opponent has lots of screen but one is always a headache.

Hey guys,

2 questions about summoning:

1. Having I got only 1 detachment and playing daemons, lets say Tzeentch, can a charater summon for example an obliterator with mark of tzeentch without having CSM in the list?

I think it should be legit as the daemonic ritual states you can summon any daemon after choosing the allegiance and with the given mark an obliterator has Faction: Tzeentch.

2. Having I got only CSM detachment, If a CSM character summons a daemon, let's say Thousand Sons Sorc summons horrors or Lord of Change, do the daemons receive Legion keyword, for example THOUSAND SONS?

 mbkgacek wrote:
Hey guys,

2 questions about summoning:

1. Having I got only 1 detachment and playing daemons, lets say Tzeentch, can a charater summon for example an obliterator with mark of tzeentch without having CSM in the list?

I think it should be legit as the daemonic ritual states you can summon any daemon after choosing the allegiance and with the given mark an obliterator has Faction: Tzeentch.

2. Having I got only CSM detachment, If a CSM character summons a daemon, let's say Thousand Sons Sorc summons horrors or Lord of Change, do the daemons receive Legion keyword, for example THOUSAND SONS?

No to both.

The unit being summoned has to have Daemonic Ritual, not unit doing the summons.

And a summoned unit is just a standard unit-no special changes made to it.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 mbkgacek wrote:
Hey guys,

2 questions about summoning:

1. Having I got only 1 detachment and playing daemons, lets say Tzeentch, can a charater summon for example an obliterator with mark of tzeentch without having CSM in the list?

I think it should be legit as the daemonic ritual states you can summon any daemon after choosing the allegiance and with the given mark an obliterator has Faction: Tzeentch.

2. Having I got only CSM detachment, If a CSM character summons a daemon, let's say Thousand Sons Sorc summons horrors or Lord of Change, do the daemons receive Legion keyword, for example THOUSAND SONS?

No to both.

The unit being summoned has to have Daemonic Ritual, not unit doing the summons.

And a summoned unit is just a standard unit-no special changes made to it.

Thank you lad!

 small_gods wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Question:
I’m finalizing my list for a GT, and am trying to decide between:
1. A second min unit of Nurglings and 20x Pinks
2. 25 man Letter Bomb

The Letters have the potential for much more damage, but the Nurglings are a great screen, and the Pinks will never have an ineffectual charge.

I usually like to have one unit of letters in my lists just to diversify threats and give my opponent something extra to think about. I generally dont take two in case my opponent has lots of screen but one is always a headache.

This would be a single Letter Bomb. I’ve just had such bad luck lately with them...in the past four games, they have not killed their target in three of them. In the fourth, they killed a single Marine character. I like the idea of having two Nurglings for character protection purposes. But the damage potential of letters is so high...it’s just that practical vs potential hasn’t measured up lately....

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 small_gods wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Question:
I’m finalizing my list for a GT, and am trying to decide between:
1. A second min unit of Nurglings and 20x Pinks
2. 25 man Letter Bomb

The Letters have the potential for much more damage, but the Nurglings are a great screen, and the Pinks will never have an ineffectual charge.

I usually like to have one unit of letters in my lists just to diversify threats and give my opponent something extra to think about. I generally dont take two in case my opponent has lots of screen but one is always a headache.

This would be a single Letter Bomb. I’ve just had such bad luck lately with them...in the past four games, they have not killed their target in three of them. In the fourth, they killed a single Marine character. I like the idea of having two Nurglings for character protection purposes. But the damage potential of letters is so high...it’s just that practical vs potential hasn’t measured up lately....

Yeah they're definitely less of an auto inclide than they used to be, because of more and more crazy overwatch abilities and people seem better at deepstrike screening.

I generally go with one unit of 20 to save CP, if I can take overwatch on some plaguebearers I will. Also it's worth holding them back till t3 a lot of the time when their path is clear and your opponent has wasted 2/3 turns maneuvering aroind a 160 point unit whilst the rest of your army is free to go about their business!

 JNAProductions wrote:

 mbkgacek wrote:
Hey guys,

2 questions about summoning:

1. Having I got only 1 detachment and playing daemons, lets say Tzeentch, can a charater summon for example an obliterator with mark of tzeentch without having CSM in the list?

I think it should be legit as the daemonic ritual states you can summon any daemon after choosing the allegiance and with the given mark an obliterator has Faction: Tzeentch.

2. Having I got only CSM detachment, If a CSM character summons a daemon, let's say Thousand Sons Sorc summons horrors or Lord of Change, do the daemons receive Legion keyword, for example THOUSAND SONS?

No to both.

The unit being summoned has to have Daemonic Ritual, not unit doing the summons.

And a summoned unit is just a standard unit-no special changes made to it.

Not true for answer 2. Summoned units get keywords. The FAQ says you decide what keywords are used at the moment that its added to your army, without further limitation. You are free to choose whatever keyword you like. Note that summoned units are not part of a detachment.

Q: If a unit is added to my army during the battle that has any
keywords that are in angular brackets, when do I choose what
those keywords are?
A: You decide what that unit’s keywords are the moment
that it is added to your army.

Q: If a unit is added to my Battle-forged army during the battle,
is it ever considered to be part of a Detachment?
A: No, units that are added to your army during the battle
are never part of any Detachment (this means they will
never benefit from any Detachment abilities).

In this case, a Lord Of Change has no optional keywords-the "add a keyword" would apply to things like Furies or Soul Grinders, who do NOT have a set god.

A lord of change that summon a soul grinder makes the grinder Tzeentch as the unit that summon can only summon from his own God.

But a CSM lord with no mark can summon anything as long the roll is high enough.

Tazberry wrote:
A lord of change that summon a soul grinder makes the grinder Tzeentch as the unit that summon can only summon from his own God.

But a CSM lord with no mark can summon anything as long the roll is high enough.

Indeed - please note, however, you need to pick a Deity before the summon roll

In revamping my Khorne daemon army to have only three princes, I was thinking of removing the three with double talons, keeping the one with the axe and wings (it's a specially converted one with a bloodthirster head) who I'll always give the Skullreaver relic to, and putting in Samus and Uraka the Warfiend. Both of those strike me as having pretty good stats and at the moment (let's hope CA 2019 doesn't up the points), they cost less than a regular DP. Is this a good idea?

Hi Guys,

I have a much neglected Slaanesh Daemon army that I want to try out (last used it in the Index,.. the day the index books were first released). I've been pretty busy playing (Freebooter) Orks, (Biel Tan) Craftworld and Harlequins. So I'm 100% ignorant of Chaos Daemons right now.

I'm not playing ITC/ETC/comp just locally and casual competitive with what we own. I was hoping people could help me with some tips or general guidelines with what I own.

I have:
Be'Lakor
2 winged DP
Infantry DP
Syll'Eske
Masque
Contorted Epitome
Infernal Enrapturess
A few infantry heralds

3 Seeker Chariots
1 Exalted Chariot
2 Hellflayers

3 Fiends
20 Seekers (mtd girls)
60 Daemonettes.

2 Soul Grinders

Sadly my Keeper is now,.. 32 years old and fully relegated to "not using in any games, even friendly" and I can't afford a new one (2 kiddos and a mortgage eating the funds)

The army is where possible Juan Diaz Daemonettes (including all the chariots which I got lucky enough to be converted when they did that recent Made To Order).

I don't want to mix in Chaos Space Marines.

I would be looking for guidelines at 1000, 1500 and possibly 2k if that was doable.

Thanks kindly for any help

Well, revised points values are on the way, which may throw things all over the place

You could get a battalion of 10-25-25 Daemonettes, that’s two hordes aiming for T2 charges and a small screening/backfield unit

The chariots, seekers, winged princes, and epitome can feasibly make some T1 charges, and be joined in it by individual Fiends, trolling your opponent by denying fallbacks

I guess the battalion would generally be the core of any list, with larger games adding even more to the T1 tsunami with the hordes following along with the slower characters (IE is really nice to troll psyker lists with)

Smaller lists can do a 10-10-(horde) Battalion

You can technically build a Brigade out of this but I would not recommend it, organising Daemonettes into big units makes more impact than a few more CP

I wouldn’t worry too much about the KoS, GDs generally want to be fielded in multiples as the metagame was recently geared to deleting a Titanic unit every turn and it’s still quite a hostile environment for a keystone big monster. KoS can make a T1 charge, but if you go second, it’s probably getting kneecapped by lascannons - a single GD is usually a somewhat inefficient fire magnet


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And! If you’re going to try T1 charges with Fiends preventing fall backs, avoid Ld debuffs. The last thing you want is the last Intercessor within 1” of a Fiend panicking and running off the board, leaving half your army within rapid fire range.

If you take your Epitome, I recommend giving them Hysterical Frenzy and Cacophonic Choir. If you’ve got a good target for that first hard to cast spell, +1 to casting is a real boon. It’s got a 1/6 chance of getting the extra damage when casting the latter (and, for that matter, Smite - worth bearing in mind).

Thanks kindly, pretty much ideally what I was hoping to hear

Hi! I listened to striking scorpion:

For tzeentch:
Flux master +14
Changecaster +13
Fateskimmer +20

Think they will be 2 casts now, I really can’t see why they would go up like that otherwise

Gremmer wrote:
Hi! I listened to striking scorpion:

For tzeentch:
Flux master +14
Changecaster +13
Fateskimmer +20

Think they will be 2 casts now, I really can’t see why they would go up like that otherwise

That is absolutely brutal news

Gremmer wrote:
Hi! I listened to striking scorpion:

For tzeentch:
Flux master +14
Changecaster +13
Fateskimmer +20

Think they will be 2 casts now, I really can’t see why they would go up like that otherwise

Two casts most certainly do not justify price increases to that degree.