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Made in us
Elite Tyranid Warrior




Pennsylvania

 hellpato wrote:
Tazberry wrote:
So, anyone played vs any new-marine?
I have been taken more and more csm lately and only using my DP with skullreaver and some letter bombs.

Feels like letters will kill marines good, but hard to getting in vs all IH overwatch and if we keep 1/3 of our army offboard they can do a serious number on us and probably just clean up the rest after.


Here the wisdom of a MONO KHORNE DAEMONS player….. you need to think outside the box… If you do the Bloodletters bomb, you need to think outside the box how to use them… like deep strike them turn 3 when you are tarpitting a strong unit and you need the hammer to strike a head.
Out of curiosity, what are you tarpitting with? It doesn't seem like there's much in our arsenal that does a good job in that department. However, I'm fairly new to the army, so I could be very wrong on this.

   
Made in ca
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut






 Battlesong wrote:
 hellpato wrote:
Tazberry wrote:
So, anyone played vs any new-marine?
I have been taken more and more csm lately and only using my DP with skullreaver and some letter bombs.

Feels like letters will kill marines good, but hard to getting in vs all IH overwatch and if we keep 1/3 of our army offboard they can do a serious number on us and probably just clean up the rest after.


Here the wisdom of a MONO KHORNE DAEMONS player….. you need to think outside the box… If you do the Bloodletters bomb, you need to think outside the box how to use them… like deep strike them turn 3 when you are tarpitting a strong unit and you need the hammer to strike a head.
Out of curiosity, what are you tarpitting with? It doesn't seem like there's much in our arsenal that does a good job in that department. However, I'm fairly new to the army, so I could be very wrong on this.


We have options. They aren't top tier meta, but Cultists are still a reasonable tarpit unit if you take them in MSUs, due to their morale trouble. Staying inside demons, Flesh Hounds are actually not /awful/ at Tarpitting, since they're pretty cheap for the size of their base and can perform multiple jobs, like physic denial and rushing down objectives.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 20:36:51


14,000 points!
 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




And going CSM for warp talons to deny overwatch might seem like a ok choice but they are 120 points for just a 5man unit.

Trying to continually build around my Tzeentch daemons and adding Khorne for heavy hitters put since codex came I feel like I have been going more and more too CSM and then adding my khorne daemons. Usually taking 2 x 25 letters fully upgraded, 200 points each and a DP with skullreaver. Absolutely love my DP!!! Any of you haven’t tried him, JUST DO IT! So good a anything but 30 ork boys I think.

Next list I’m building have 2 Deredos and two units of havocs with either lascannon or ML then adding in my letters.

Any real list but Nurgle daemons that are good but might not be a obvious choice? Thinking of getting more Demonettes for a cheaper choice and can advance and charge.
   
Made in ca
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut






I've seen Slaanesh demons do some work. Their new HQ units like the Contorted Epitome and Keeper of Secrets are pretty bangin, alongside the Infernal Enrapturess. Pink horror bombs are also viable, as are Flamer bombs. I've used 9 flamers near a herald to great success, especially by giving them +1 to wound. Who wouldn't want 9d6 heavy flamer shots at 12", with +1 to wound? Those pesky Primaris are getting wounded on 2s.

14,000 points!
 
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Yorkshire

I've been trying a newer version of the old style TSons and Plaguebearers list using the Contorted Epitome and Syll'esske. It's doing well.

60 Plaguebearers, 20 bloodletters, brimstones, 6 nurglings Ahriman, 2 TSon DPs, Skullreaver Prince, epitome, sylesske and Scrivener.

There's some really nice synergies and there's loads of mele threats. And nobody has got through all the nurglings and plaguebearers yet.

I really like using epitome with gem + phantasmagoria and treason of tzeentch. If you get into a character bubble you can really give them some trouble.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






 small_gods wrote:
I've been trying a newer version of the old style TSons and Plaguebearers list using the Contorted Epitome and Syll'esske. It's doing well.

60 Plaguebearers, 20 bloodletters, brimstones, 6 nurglings Ahriman, 2 TSon DPs, Skullreaver Prince, epitome, sylesske and Scrivener.

There's some really nice synergies and there's loads of mele threats. And nobody has got through all the nurglings and plaguebearers yet.

I really like using epitome with gem + phantasmagoria and treason of tzeentch. If you get into a character bubble you can really give them some trouble.


It's a good list, and if the mirror can keep sylessk and skullreaver safe for 1 turn in combat then the game is won in most cases. The real problem of this list archetype is that it gets countered by competitive marines, thunderfire cannon tremor shells will cripple your plaguebearers movement and easy access to BS2 and full rerolls will quickly focus them down, at which point the characters will be deleted, if they haven't already been sniped out by phobos captain or eliminators.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Yorkshire

 Continuity wrote:
 small_gods wrote:
I've been trying a newer version of the old style TSons and Plaguebearers list using the Contorted Epitome and Syll'esske. It's doing well.

60 Plaguebearers, 20 bloodletters, brimstones, 6 nurglings Ahriman, 2 TSon DPs, Skullreaver Prince, epitome, sylesske and Scrivener.

There's some really nice synergies and there's loads of mele threats. And nobody has got through all the nurglings and plaguebearers yet.

I really like using epitome with gem + phantasmagoria and treason of tzeentch. If you get into a character bubble you can really give them some trouble.


It's a good list, and if the mirror can keep sylessk and skullreaver safe for 1 turn in combat then the game is won in most cases. The real problem of this list archetype is that it gets countered by competitive marines, thunderfire cannon tremor shells will cripple your plaguebearers movement and easy access to BS2 and full rerolls will quickly focus them down, at which point the characters will be deleted, if they haven't already been sniped out by phobos captain or eliminators.


Yeah there's definately some potential counters out there but at least PBs are still not caring about all the extra AP marines have got. Also those lists have to be relatively stationary and I play itc so generally hiding nurglings out of LOS can help keep characters alive.

Although there's a couple of Raven Guard lists in our local scene that I'm not looking forward to coming up against!
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




People keep saying that numarines are good at killing PBs but the fact is that PBs are still ridiculously tough.

With Chapter Master rerolls at BS2 you still need more than 150 bolter shots to kill a unit of 30. At BS3 (or Miasma) that's up to 180 shots. Marines have access to BS2 buffs but they can't affect every unit so in reality it's likely to be even more shots than this.

Even with heavy bolters or equivalent you still need 115 shots with full rerolls and BS2.

Yes, it is possible to kill them. But the amount of shooting it requires is disproportionate to the amount of points it costs to field them for even their best counters.

Regarding the list itself, I love the idea of Forbidden Gem, Epitome and Treason of Tzeentch all working together. That is a massive threat to any castle.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Yorkshire

saint_red wrote:
People keep saying that numarines are good at killing PBs but the fact is that PBs are still ridiculously tough.

With Chapter Master rerolls at BS2 you still need more than 150 bolter shots to kill a unit of 30. At BS3 (or Miasma) that's up to 180 shots. Marines have access to BS2 buffs but they can't affect every unit so in reality it's likely to be even more shots than this.

Even with heavy bolters or equivalent you still need 115 shots with full rerolls and BS2.

Yes, it is possible to kill them. But the amount of shooting it requires is disproportionate to the amount of points it costs to field them for even their best counters.

Regarding the list itself, I love the idea of Forbidden Gem, Epitome and Treason of Tzeentch all working together. That is a massive threat to any castle.


The only thing that worries me about the new Marines lineup is agressors. Especially flame salamanders and bolter ironhands/imperial fists. That 2+ and ridiculous ammount of shots can be worrying, but not impossible to play around. You just need to smite as many off the board as you can before overwatch.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/24 13:07:05


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






The fact that daemons ignore all of the new AP buffs on marines is huge.

Tremor shells definitely seem like the biggest hard counter to plaguebearers. But I don't expect to see them much outside of events, if only because thunderfire cannons aren't a very popular model and people don't necessarily have them lying around.

   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Yes flamers are really good! A herald near by for +1S and giving +1 to wound then if anyone wants to shoot them you buff them with stratagem for a 3++ so they survive a bit better and not that many units are allowed to do a charge outside 12” so we can burn any chargers still having +1 to wound.
Now I want more flamers. Hahaha

If anyone want some feedback for keepers of secrets, here’s one.
They are good and draws away fire from other stuffs. They are fast! In a pure Slaanesh detachment they mostly will hit enemy deployment with ease. They kill stuff in combat but if a unit like a Knight survives having taken any wounds from the sword they have a -1 to hit (I think).
Personally I feel like the shield is a trap for a 6+++ and you have more value from the hand that heal the keeper.

Played a necron list at 2000points and I just quickly made the list of something like this.

3 keepers of secrets
2 lord Discordant
2 DP skullreaver and Slaanesh sword
2 units letters
And some screen cultists or nurglings or something.

Turn one.
Two keepers charge with one Lord Discordant killing a lot of stuff and consolidating into something else.

Enemy T1.
Killing one Lord Discordant and a keeper. The ones that was left out open.

T2.
Letters DS on a flank and all my army charge and more or less obliterated his whole army and locking the rest in combat.

This was the first time mine skullreaver DP did not kill his target!!! Quantum shielding negating all wounds but the MW as I rolled so hot for 5 and 6s on D!

All in all, I did NOT except this to happen and anyone who wants a melee army can consider keepers. Or wants a distraction for 240 points.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

I‘ve locked horns with KoS and field-tested my own yesterday

Pretty solid early distraction that absolutely has to be killed lest it start regenerating via Sinistrous Hand, and a brutal counter to early charge armies. My own Khorne Daemonkin went from Warptimed Waaagh to playing keep-away with like a Helbrute until the KoS was dealt with and I could consolidate into a denied flank and fight on my terms

   
Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp






Dimmamar

Question:
I’m finalizing my list for a GT, and am trying to decide between:
1. A second min unit of Nurglings and 20x Pinks
2. 25 man Letter Bomb

The Letters have the potential for much more damage, but the Nurglings are a great screen, and the Pinks will never have an ineffectual charge.

40k Resources

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1000 1500 4500

"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Yorkshire

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Question:
I’m finalizing my list for a GT, and am trying to decide between:
1. A second min unit of Nurglings and 20x Pinks
2. 25 man Letter Bomb

The Letters have the potential for much more damage, but the Nurglings are a great screen, and the Pinks will never have an ineffectual charge.


I usually like to have one unit of letters in my lists just to diversify threats and give my opponent something extra to think about. I generally dont take two in case my opponent has lots of screen but one is always a headache.
   
Made in pl
Gibbering Horde of Chaos




Poland

Hey guys,

2 questions about summoning:

1. Having I got only 1 detachment and playing daemons, lets say Tzeentch, can a charater summon for example an obliterator with mark of tzeentch without having CSM in the list?

I think it should be legit as the daemonic ritual states you can summon any daemon after choosing the allegiance and with the given mark an obliterator has Faction: Tzeentch.

2. Having I got only CSM detachment, If a CSM character summons a daemon, let's say Thousand Sons Sorc summons horrors or Lord of Change, do the daemons receive Legion keyword, for example THOUSAND SONS?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/26 13:54:31


 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 mbkgacek wrote:
Hey guys,

2 questions about summoning:

1. Having I got only 1 detachment and playing daemons, lets say Tzeentch, can a charater summon for example an obliterator with mark of tzeentch without having CSM in the list?

I think it should be legit as the daemonic ritual states you can summon any daemon after choosing the allegiance and with the given mark an obliterator has Faction: Tzeentch.

2. Having I got only CSM detachment, If a CSM character summons a daemon, let's say Thousand Sons Sorc summons horrors or Lord of Change, do the daemons receive Legion keyword, for example THOUSAND SONS?
No to both.

The unit being summoned has to have Daemonic Ritual, not unit doing the summons.

And a summoned unit is just a standard unit-no special changes made to it.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in pl
Gibbering Horde of Chaos




Poland

 JNAProductions wrote:
 mbkgacek wrote:
Hey guys,

2 questions about summoning:

1. Having I got only 1 detachment and playing daemons, lets say Tzeentch, can a charater summon for example an obliterator with mark of tzeentch without having CSM in the list?

I think it should be legit as the daemonic ritual states you can summon any daemon after choosing the allegiance and with the given mark an obliterator has Faction: Tzeentch.

2. Having I got only CSM detachment, If a CSM character summons a daemon, let's say Thousand Sons Sorc summons horrors or Lord of Change, do the daemons receive Legion keyword, for example THOUSAND SONS?
No to both.

The unit being summoned has to have Daemonic Ritual, not unit doing the summons.

And a summoned unit is just a standard unit-no special changes made to it.


Thank you lad!
   
Made in us
Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp






Dimmamar

 small_gods wrote:
 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Question:
I’m finalizing my list for a GT, and am trying to decide between:
1. A second min unit of Nurglings and 20x Pinks
2. 25 man Letter Bomb

The Letters have the potential for much more damage, but the Nurglings are a great screen, and the Pinks will never have an ineffectual charge.


I usually like to have one unit of letters in my lists just to diversify threats and give my opponent something extra to think about. I generally dont take two in case my opponent has lots of screen but one is always a headache.


This would be a single Letter Bomb. I’ve just had such bad luck lately with them...in the past four games, they have not killed their target in three of them. In the fourth, they killed a single Marine character. I like the idea of having two Nurglings for character protection purposes. But the damage potential of letters is so high...it’s just that practical vs potential hasn’t measured up lately....

40k Resources

LVO 2017 - Best GK Player

The Grimdark Future 8500 1000 1500 4500

"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler





Yorkshire

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
 small_gods wrote:
 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Question:
I’m finalizing my list for a GT, and am trying to decide between:
1. A second min unit of Nurglings and 20x Pinks
2. 25 man Letter Bomb

The Letters have the potential for much more damage, but the Nurglings are a great screen, and the Pinks will never have an ineffectual charge.


I usually like to have one unit of letters in my lists just to diversify threats and give my opponent something extra to think about. I generally dont take two in case my opponent has lots of screen but one is always a headache.


This would be a single Letter Bomb. I’ve just had such bad luck lately with them...in the past four games, they have not killed their target in three of them. In the fourth, they killed a single Marine character. I like the idea of having two Nurglings for character protection purposes. But the damage potential of letters is so high...it’s just that practical vs potential hasn’t measured up lately....


Yeah they're definitely less of an auto inclide than they used to be, because of more and more crazy overwatch abilities and people seem better at deepstrike screening.

I generally go with one unit of 20 to save CP, if I can take overwatch on some plaguebearers I will. Also it's worth holding them back till t3 a lot of the time when their path is clear and your opponent has wasted 2/3 turns maneuvering aroind a 160 point unit whilst the rest of your army is free to go about their business!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/26 16:02:00


 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

 JNAProductions wrote:
 mbkgacek wrote:
Hey guys,

2 questions about summoning:

1. Having I got only 1 detachment and playing daemons, lets say Tzeentch, can a charater summon for example an obliterator with mark of tzeentch without having CSM in the list?

I think it should be legit as the daemonic ritual states you can summon any daemon after choosing the allegiance and with the given mark an obliterator has Faction: Tzeentch.

2. Having I got only CSM detachment, If a CSM character summons a daemon, let's say Thousand Sons Sorc summons horrors or Lord of Change, do the daemons receive Legion keyword, for example THOUSAND SONS?
No to both.

The unit being summoned has to have Daemonic Ritual, not unit doing the summons.

And a summoned unit is just a standard unit-no special changes made to it.


Not true for answer 2. Summoned units get keywords. The FAQ says you decide what keywords are used at the moment that its added to your army, without further limitation. You are free to choose whatever keyword you like. Note that summoned units are not part of a detachment.

Q: If a unit is added to my army during the battle that has any
keywords that are in angular brackets, when do I choose what
those keywords are?
A: You decide what that unit’s keywords are the moment
that it is added to your army.


Q: If a unit is added to my Battle-forged army during the battle,
is it ever considered to be part of a Detachment?
A: No, units that are added to your army during the battle
are never part of any Detachment (this means they will
never benefit from any Detachment abilities).
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

In this case, a Lord Of Change has no optional keywords-the "add a keyword" would apply to things like Furies or Soul Grinders, who do NOT have a set god.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




A lord of change that summon a soul grinder makes the grinder Tzeentch as the unit that summon can only summon from his own God.

But a CSM lord with no mark can summon anything as long the roll is high enough.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

Tazberry wrote:
A lord of change that summon a soul grinder makes the grinder Tzeentch as the unit that summon can only summon from his own God.

But a CSM lord with no mark can summon anything as long the roll is high enough.

Indeed - please note, however, you need to pick a Deity before the summon roll

   
Made in us
Furious Raptor





In revamping my Khorne daemon army to have only three princes, I was thinking of removing the three with double talons, keeping the one with the axe and wings (it's a specially converted one with a bloodthirster head) who I'll always give the Skullreaver relic to, and putting in Samus and Uraka the Warfiend. Both of those strike me as having pretty good stats and at the moment (let's hope CA 2019 doesn't up the points), they cost less than a regular DP. Is this a good idea?
   
 
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