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Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Damn! I think they’re too expensive now! Just give them 2 cast with no increases.

Hopefully Tzeentch will get 5+ smiters all the time like Tsons. Right now Tzeentch is not a psychic army, it’s a shooting army.
   
Made in gb
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh





Heralds on chariots get new data sheets supposedly with the 2 damage claws, like all other heralds. Slaanesh also gained a completely new unit herald on hellflayer.
   
Made in us
Maddening Mutant Boss of Chaos





Boston

Giving Tzeentch heralds two casts will make them a little more potent -- but only a little, IMO, since their powers are relatively unimpressive. I suppose lobbing more smites is always useful, and Gaze of Fate will now become much more feasible. I'll be a lot more excited about double casting if Tzeench daemons get access to some of those tasty Thousand Sons options -- particularly Glamour of Tzeentch....

   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




 tinfoil wrote:
Giving Tzeentch heralds two casts will make them a little more potent -- but only a little, IMO, since their powers are relatively unimpressive. I suppose lobbing more smites is always useful, and Gaze of Fate will now become much more feasible. I'll be a lot more excited about double casting if Tzeench daemons get access to some of those tasty Thousand Sons options -- particularly Glamour of Tzeentch....


When will we know if the Tzeentch Heralds gain another cast?
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

Probably when daemons get their PA book.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Well... not all Tzeentch news is bad. Flamers got pointed down, right? Along with some stuff?

Have to say Slaanesh seems to have won out again (which I can't cry about, as I play Slaanesh).

The rumored Herald update, partiuclarly the Hellflayer Herald is huge news in my opinion and welcomed. Will definitely grind up some Primaris marines or even tougher targets with that, and it can follow the 3 Exalteds I was already bringing.

Most of our stuff went down except the Masque going back up... I can only assume this is because she goes so well with Syll'Esske as a multiplier or it's an error.

All in alll, great news from CA 2019 for me.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






My pure Tzeentch casual list keeps getting cheaper. I was really butthurt last year (was it last year?) when they nerfed the -1 to hit aura Changeling and 2++ Lord of Change. But seems like every update they lower the points costs of everything else.

Back then exalted flamers were 90pts IIRC (!).

   
Made in us
Snord





Florida

 slave.entity wrote:
My pure Tzeentch casual list keeps getting cheaper. I was really butthurt last year (was it last year?) when they nerfed the -1 to hit aura Changeling and 2++ Lord of Change. But seems like every update they lower the points costs of everything else.

Back then exalted flamers were 90pts IIRC (!).


Which units got cheaper?

I play:
40K: Daemons, Genestealer Cults
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Gremlins,Neverborn
Wrath of Kings: Shael Han
Dark Age: Brood, Kukulkani
Guild Ball: Morticians, Brewers 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Kairos, Lord of Change, Screamers, Flamers, Exalted Flamers, Burning Chariots.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/e2v510/chapter_approved_points_updates/

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






 slave.entity wrote:
Kairos, Lord of Change, Screamers, Flamers, Exalted Flamers, Burning Chariots.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/e2v510/chapter_approved_points_updates/


I don't think that leak includes everything. It doesn't include the points drops for the Slaanesh Heralds on chariots, nor the new Hellflayer. You can tell it starts off like it's on the second page? Doesn't say Daemons or whatever at the top?

   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





Does Skarbrand still have the ability to one-hit kill anything if he's the warlord?
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Does Skarbrand still have the ability to one-hit kill anything if he's the warlord?


No. Skarbrand is the worst greater daemon, 290 pts., no relics for him, and he buffs enemy models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/08 08:28:36


 
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





 p5freak wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Does Skarbrand still have the ability to one-hit kill anything if he's the warlord?


No. Skarbrand is the worst greater daemon, 290 pts., no relics for him, and he buffs enemy models.


I know that him buffing enemy guys makes him a risk, but I was thinking of putting him in a battalion with a bloodmaster and three units of bloodletters (one with the banner of blood) which I would then deepstrike. I think this could be a pretty nasty combination.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Does Skarbrand still have the ability to one-hit kill anything if he's the warlord?


No. Skarbrand is the worst greater daemon, 290 pts., no relics for him, and he buffs enemy models.


I know that him buffing enemy guys makes him a risk, but I was thinking of putting him in a battalion with a bloodmaster and three units of bloodletters (one with the banner of blood) which I would then deepstrike. I think this could be a pretty nasty combination.


He hits hard.
Against T8 2+/5++ = 18 damage
Against T8 2+/5++/5+++ = 12 damage

Toughness really doesn't matter he is wounding everything on 2's if you use the right profile.


The problem is you had best make sure he can charge some juicy target and not just an opponent's acreen.
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





Ok, here's my new Khorne daemon list: After the points drop in CA, I decided to revamp this army and was able to put in some more stuff. I like it a lot, but I was curious if there was anything off about it. Also, I'm up in the air about whether or not to give the Skullmaster the King of Blades relic. On one hand, it would noticeably up his killing power. On the other hand, that's two more command points gone, and I'm not sure how many I'll need to be able to win, especially due to the almost exclusively melee nature of this army. Oh, and should the armour relic go to the BT or the prince? That prince has some serious hitting power and it has a greater chance of living regardless, but the BT might need it more due to often being a magnet for firepower.

Spoiler:
Warlord Outrider Detachment:
Daemon Prince with Wings, Daemonic axe, and one set of talons [HQ] [Warlord] (Artefact: Skull Reaver) (Trait: Oblivious to Pain) (Mark of Khorne) = 165
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury [HQ]
1 x 5 Flesh Hounds = 75
1 x 5 Flesh Hounds = 75
1 x 5 Flesh Hounds = 75

Skarbrand Battalion:
Skarbrand [HQ] = 290
Bloodmaster [HQ] = 56
1 x 29 Bloodletters, 1 Bloodreaper (with Banner of Blood/Icon and Instrument of Chaos) = 235
1 x 9 Bloodletters, 1 Bloodreaper = 70
1 x 9 Bloodletters, 1 Bloodreaper = 70

Skulltaker Battalion:
Skulltaker [HQ] = 84
Daemon Prince of Chaos with Malefic talons [HQ] (Artefact: Armour of Scorn) (Mark of Khorne) = 156
Skullmaster [HQ] = 90
1 x 25 Bloodletters, 1 Bloodreaper (with Banner of Blood/Icon and Instrument of Chaos) = 235
1 x 9 Bloodletters, 1 Bloodreaper = 70
1 x 9 Bloodletters, 1 Bloodreaper = 70

Total points: 1998
Command points (original): 14
Command points (remaining after artefacts and Blood Banner): 11
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

weaver9 wrote:

He hits hard.
Against T8 2+/5++ = 18 damage
Against T8 2+/5++/5+++ = 12 damage

Toughness really doesn't matter he is wounding everything on 2's if you use the right profile.


I suggest you read the rules first. He is S15, and only on the same turn when he charged, got charged, or performed a heroic intervention. He isnt wounding everything on 2s. A bloodthirster can do the same for a lot less points.

Modifying Characteristics
Some large models’ characteristics can change as the model suffers damage – look at such a model’s remaining wounds and consult the appropriate row of the chart on their datasheet to determine its current characteristics.
You may also encounter abilities and rules that modify a characteristic. All modifiers are cumulative, though you should apply any multiplication or division to the characteristic (rounding fractions up) before applying any addition or subtraction.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/08 21:15:16


 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

The Elites and Heavy Support stuff are looking tempting, now. Does 7pt discount make Bloodcrushers viable? Still feels a bit steep

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 p5freak wrote:
weaver9 wrote:

He hits hard.
Against T8 2+/5++ = 18 damage
Against T8 2+/5++/5+++ = 12 damage

Toughness really doesn't matter he is wounding everything on 2's if you use the right profile.


I suggest you read the rules first. He is S15, and only on the same turn when he charged, got charged, or performed a heroic intervention. He isnt wounding everything on 2s. A bloodthirster can do the same for a lot less points.

Modifying Characteristics
Some large models’ characteristics can change as the model suffers damage – look at such a model’s remaining wounds and consult the appropriate row of the chart on their datasheet to determine its current characteristics.
You may also encounter abilities and rules that modify a characteristic. All modifiers are cumulative, though you should apply any multiplication or division to the characteristic (rounding fractions up) before applying any addition or subtraction.


This is correct he'd be Strength 15.

That being said, just stick him within 6" of any khorne daemon with a Locus and you're in business (easily done).

The only numerical difference between Skarbrand and a Bloodthirster of InsSenate Rage is 1 attack (starting fresh). Insansate Rage thirster then ALSO gets to roll 2 dice for damage and pick the highest.

So I would say that most likely it's going to do MORE than skarbrand fresh off the deepstrike charge when going after big targets (going after chaff skarbrand wound be better with the +1 attack if they are both using their sweeps).

The real difference is skarbrand gets more attacks as he drops in wounds profile, keeping him dangerous so long as he is on the field. The other one becomes two glorified meltas.

Is staying dangerous when damaged, a heavy flamer and +1 attack worth 60 more points? Dealers choice imo.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lindsay40k wrote:
The Elites and Heavy Support stuff are looking tempting, now. Does 7pt discount make Bloodcrushers viable? Still feels a bit steep


Some quick napkin math, on the charge, no outside auras, using 196pts of letters, and 200pts of crushers...

Bloodletters vs KEQ: 21 dmg
Bloodcrushers vs KEQ: 8.7 dmg

Letters vs Aggressors: 27 dmg (7-9 dead)
Crushers vs Aggressors: 13 dmg (3-4 dead depending)

Letters vs Shield Captain with fnp: ~8 dmg
Crushers vs Shield Captain: ~6 dmg

So point for point in terms of raw damage output it looks like no?
But there's way more to a game than just isolated scenarios.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/09 05:18:11


 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe




I will just say above, bloodcrushers will get more models and attacks in then the bloodletters, can't apply whole units attacks at a time but bloodcrushers very easily can!
   
Made in us
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Crushers are also faster moving, and that's relevant for getting into combat to begin with, and getting the fight you want.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I actually have like 6 Bloodcrusher models that I've never been able to use before so these changes are looking somewhat appealing.

Working Men of All Countries, Unite!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Never mind, usless post is useless.... :p

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/09 15:37:54


 
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

 BoomWolf wrote:
Crushers are also faster moving, and that's relevant for getting into combat to begin with, and getting the fight you want.

Bloodletters don’t walk across the battlefield, they teleport in and scream about everyone within 3D6+2” spilling their pints.

Hmm, these numbers still don’t look good. I suppose if you’re charging a unit that can reliably inflict 12 S4 hits in OW, Crushers have something of a niche…

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 lindsay40k wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:
Crushers are also faster moving, and that's relevant for getting into combat to begin with, and getting the fight you want.

Bloodletters don’t walk across the battlefield, they teleport in and scream about everyone within 3D6+2” spilling their pints.

Hmm, these numbers still don’t look good. I suppose if you’re charging a unit that can reliably inflict 12 S4 hits in OW, Crushers have something of a niche…


Treat crushers like daemon terminators, and give them 2+/5++ then we'd be in business.

As it is, imo they're a visually cool unit that is generally better as a counter charge/distraction unit than a primary means of damaging.
   
Made in pl
Gibbering Horde of Chaos




Poland

 lindsay40k wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:
Crushers are also faster moving, and that's relevant for getting into combat to begin with, and getting the fight you want.

Bloodletters don’t walk across the battlefield, they teleport in and scream about everyone within 3D6+2” spilling their pints.


Hm, how do you give them +2" to charge? The instrument gives them +1 but where the +2 comes from?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/11 22:40:03


 
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Newcastle

Is it worth a CP to deepstrike a unit of 10 bloodletters? Or just run them up the table?

Which is better: 2x20 deepstriking letters with instruments and another CP for a charge re-roll, or 1x30 with the banner of blood and a unit of 10 on foot? Both come to 3CP.

Deepstriking bloodletters is great but they use up the command points they provide

Hydra Dominatus 
   
Made in de
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest






Germany

1x20 Bloodletters with horn and instrument, and a character in a patrol detachment for rerolling the charge.
   
Made in gb
Huge Hierodule






Nottingham (yay!)

 mbkgacek wrote:
 lindsay40k wrote:
 BoomWolf wrote:
Crushers are also faster moving, and that's relevant for getting into combat to begin with, and getting the fight you want.

Bloodletters don’t walk across the battlefield, they teleport in and scream about everyone within 3D6+2” spilling their pints.


Hm, how do you give them +2" to charge? The instrument gives them +1 but where the +2 comes from?

I don’t, I’m just including the 1” melee reach in the threat radius

   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




But you still have to make a 8” charge as you DS them MORE than 9” away from enemy units. And you have to end your move within 1” (not included 1” but 0,9999999”).
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tazberry wrote:
But you still have to make a 8” charge as you DS them MORE than 9” away from enemy units. And you have to end your move within 1” (not included 1” but 0,9999999”).


Exact 1" is enough. But as you start more than 9" getting to exact 8" doesn't put you within 1" of enemy

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/12/31/tneva82-december-moria/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
 
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