Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey everyone, I just had a few Fluffy questions regarding my favorite primarch and his legions. Certain things are very clear and common knowledge, such as the battles, and who killed who for the most part. My biggest question is just what the hell happened to the Luna Wolves? Garviel Loken survives his battle with Abaddon and Istvaan V, supposedly to reform the Luna Wolves and become one of the original Grey Knights. But that seems to be the extent of the knowledge of both Loken and the Luna Wolves. The Luna Wolves aren't even considered a loyalist founding chapter by GW, at least not to a level worthy of a limited edition codex... bastards. Does anyone have knowledge of the Chapter having any activity in the year 40,000, and do we have any knowledge of Garvi playing a lead role in the Grey Knights? Also, since I mentioned him in the subject bar I've read that Horus' remains were destroyed by Abaddon, I've heard that he's been preserved to be reanimated at a later time, and I've heard that some crazy necron called "the Collector" (Or something) has his body in a tomb full of crazy, cosmic, artifacts. Can anyone sort that one out? Thanks, looking forward to some good conversation.

Well, the Luna Wolves became the Sons of Horus before the Hersey, and they are very much traitors.

Do you mean the "Luna Wolves", the loyalists on Istvaan III who cast off the name of Horus and dug in to fight to the last man? The overwhelming majority are dead. Loken survives and does his thing (haven't listened to any of the audiobooks), not sure how many other survive. Based on Loken, like you say, they were integrated into the founding of the Grey Knights, and have no identity as a distinct unit anymore.

If you mean the "Luna Wolves", who became the Sons of Horus, who stayed loyal to Horus and betrayed the Emperor, Abbadon renamed them "The Black Legion" after the death of Horus and the recovery of his body. They are quite actively raiding, pillaging, burning and generally making a nuisance of themselves, every so often throwing a Black Crusade just for the heck of it.

edit: The sources I've seen indicated pretty clearly Horus' body was destroyed to prevent any more clones. Theory is the Trazyn the Infinite has A primarch in his collection, but we aren't sure which one, and it probably isn't Horus.

Right, I know about the Sons and the Black Legion. That's all on the wikis and in the books. But there is a group of Sons that denounce the new name and stay loyal to the Emprah. Forge World also considers them loyalist.

 lokenlupercal wrote:
Right, I know about the Sons and the Black Legion. That's all on the wikis and in the books. But there is a group of Sons that denounce the new name and stay loyal to the Emprah. Forge World also considers them loyalist.

I think you're referring to Heresy-era stuff. There's no official lore (that I know of) for any loyalist Sons of Horus other than the ones on Istvaan III, whose fate is mostly known.

That said, it's mentioned a couple times that loyalties are uncertain during the Heresy, that space marines attached to different Expedition Fleets sometimes chose different paths than the main body of their legion. It's possible some Sons of Horus were part of different Expedition Fleets (although I seem to remember Horus saying at one point that he gathered his entire legion at Istvaan III) chose to remain loyal, and were still active in the galaxy at large. That would be trickier, as depending on the Imperial forces they encountered they could be integrated into existing Imperial formations, "quarantined", or simply shot first and questioned later.

That's interesting. I've also found some successor chapter of the Sons of Horus that remained loyal to the emperor, as well as a crazy hybrid chapter of surviving Luna Wolves and Space Wolves, which I'll link below. But there seems to be a great deal of confusion regarding the legacy of the loyal Luna Wolves, including Loken, the greatest of their ranks (As far as loyalists go).

http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Knights_of_Lupercal

 lokenlupercal wrote:
That's interesting. I've also found some successor chapter of the Sons of Horus that remained loyal to the emperor, as well as a crazy hybrid chapter of surviving Luna Wolves and Space Wolves, which I'll link below. But there seems to be a great deal of confusion regarding the legacy of the loyal Luna Wolves, including Loken, the greatest of their ranks (As far as loyalists go).

http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Knights_of_Lupercal

warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Knights_of_Lupercal

Well der's yer problem.

Technically, if one were to incorporate the interpretations of the HH novel authors into their perception of the setting, then why not the interpretations of other writers who simply happened to not write under the license? As long as, in their mind, it all adds up and sounds cool.

It's all myths and legends - so it depends on the individual reader/gamer what they make of it.

Still, I believe it is important to know where exactly a piece of fluff comes from, as we all have different opinions about the importance or validity of the various sources and how they tie into each other (or not), especially where it comes to contradictions, perceived or obvious.

 lokenlupercal wrote:
Right, I know about the Sons and the Black Legion. That's all on the wikis and in the books. But there is a group of Sons that denounce the new name and stay loyal to the Emprah. Forge World also considers them loyalist.

There are no Luna Wolves yet. The Emperor, back when he and horus were chums, renamed the entire legion the Sons of Horus in honor of his favorite son. To run around calling yourself a Luna Wolf after Big E renamed you would be Heresy.

Horus then planned his turning traitor very carefully and had his entire legion present at IstvaanV and weeded out anyone he didnt think he could trust. Out of the 150,000 a small handfull survived. 5 dudes isnt enough to remake a legion or even a chapter.

The traitor primarchs geneseed is still stored by the AdMech, but unless someone makes a mistake they arent gonna bring any more Horus spawn back to life.

 Exergy wrote:

 lokenlupercal wrote:
Right, I know about the Sons and the Black Legion. That's all on the wikis and in the books. But there is a group of Sons that denounce the new name and stay loyal to the Emprah. Forge World also considers them loyalist.

There are no Luna Wolves yet. The Emperor, back when he and horus were chums, renamed the entire legion the Sons of Horus in honor of his favorite son. To run around calling yourself a Luna Wolf after Big E renamed you would be Heresy.

Horus then planned his turning traitor very carefully and had his entire legion present at IstvaanV and weeded out anyone he didnt think he could trust. Out of the 150,000 a small handfull survived. 5 dudes isnt enough to remake a legion or even a chapter.

The traitor primarchs geneseed is still stored by the AdMech, but unless someone makes a mistake they arent gonna bring any more Horus spawn back to life.

How could it be heresy if you denounce the name of the greatest heretic in Imperial history?

 lokenlupercal wrote:
That's interesting. I've also found some successor chapter of the Sons of Horus that remained loyal to the emperor, as well as a crazy hybrid chapter of surviving Luna Wolves and Space Wolves, which I'll link below. But there seems to be a great deal of confusion regarding the legacy of the loyal Luna Wolves, including Loken, the greatest of their ranks (As far as loyalists go).

http://warhammer40kfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Knights_of_Lupercal

Article has been deleted since it "clearly goes against 40k canon"
ie, some trigger happy army kit-bashy wanted to make a chapter and write an article to make it sound "legit".

Quick spoiler alert here,


Loken and Iacton Cruze are the only surviving loyalists who were on the ground at Istvaan III that we know of. Others may have survived but these two are the only ones who actively feature in the HH series later on. (Audio books) they aren't trying to reform the Luna wolves either, they are however agents of Malcador the Sigillite, the regent of Terra. Along with Garro, Tylos Rubio and Macer Varren.

 Lynata wrote:
Technically, if one were to incorporate the interpretations of the HH novel authors into their perception of the setting, then why not the interpretations of other writers who simply happened to not write under the license? As long as, in their mind, it all adds up and sounds cool.

It's all myths and legends - so it depends on the individual reader/gamer what they make of it.

Still, I believe it is important to know where exactly a piece of fluff comes from, as we all have different opinions about the importance or validity of the various sources and how they tie into each other (or not), especially where it comes to contradictions, perceived or obvious.

Obviously in his local FLGS or his own home he can do whatever he wants, hell say a company of Luna Wolves en route from Terra to wherever Horus was at the time got lost in the Warp and spit back out in 40000.. Or some rogue High Lord of Terra sanctions a Space Marine chapter made from old Luna Wolf Geneseed. Or the classic "we know not where we came from" but...... We look, act, and call ourselves Luna Wolves (no relation to those Luna Wolves mind you) the Blood Raven approach as its commonly called.

But I think he is asking what is the official canon, which is the Luna Wolvs are all dead.... also the whole half Luna/Space wolf hybrid nonsense wouldn't work because the Space Wolf geneseed only works on Fenris born humans, other humans turn into Wulfen (See Wolf Brothers)