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Pretty much this discussion started in another thread and I decided to make its own thread. This is about a last stand game. Here's an idea from dementedwombat on the previous thread. So feel free to share any ideas and what not.

 dementedwombat wrote:

The defender gets access to pretty much their entire army list, although I think maybe we need to put some limits on what they could bring (maybe look at the kill team restrictions). This is never meant to be a competitive scenario but some limits fit the theme. also like to add some kind of Necromunda type ammo roles (if you roll 1 to hit, roll a dice again, if you roll below the weapon's "ammo number" the weapon jams or runs dry and can't be used anymore. Of course all the cool weapons like flamers and assault cannons get ammo rolls of 5 or 6).

The attacker gets a ton of troop models without ranged attacks that can come back in from a board edge when wiped out and a few elite models ("special infected").

The objective of the game is just for the defender's warlord to be alive at the end of a certain number of turns, when the air support comes in, clears a LZ, and evacuates him/her/it

Could see pretty much any army being the defenders, attackers could of course be plague zombies, tyranids, feral orks, not as many options but some variety is there.

I like the idea. A lot.

I always wanted a zombie type setting but realize the closest thing to that in the 40k universe would be Nurgle's minions

I also feel that the default 6 turns of 40k are never satisfactory enough and should be 7 or 8 turns by default. In such a last stand game I think 12 turns ought to do.

you could add in ammo stores, fuel dumps and medicae facilities like out of cities of death. It would give points to defend that the zombies have to push you from.

Yeah - have objectives that actively help the side who holds them - that way it's a real gamechanger when you win or lose one.

Nids or Orks, or simply Cultists are good candidates for attackers.

If you look at the planet strike missions they will also help you with some rules for attackers and defenders. Like defenders get extra heavy support slots and attackers get extra elite and fast attack slots.

Some interesting rules are like the attackers bombard the defenders base. So before the game starts you can either give the attacker a nominated amount of large blasts or you could have him roll a d6 for everyone of the defenders units and on a 6 they take a large blast s8 ap3 hit.

The defenders can get mine markers that count as difficult and dangerous terrain.

You could do a scenario where the defender has less points than the attacker but is in a fortified position with bunkers and buildings and what not to really simulate defending a strongpoint as a last stand and being outnumbered.

Last stands were a staple of the daemonhunters codex. We often set up a small force on the inquisition side, usually an inquisitor and retinue with a few stormtrooper units and then a unit of gray knight termies and then made up a daemon force of twice as many points, making sure to include plenty of lesser daemons and beasts. These then would keep respawning as they were destroyed, because of the grey knights rules at the time, and we'd see how long someone could hold out. Sometimes they had a small defensible position and in others they were just in the open in the center of the table. Was always good for some fun games.

It can be fun without unlimited daemons to test your abilties against your friends by having a force of half the size and see if you can successfully win the game against them. Sometimes the dice gods favor you and you pull off an amazing upset...other times you get the exact opposite effect and you get squashed like a bug, but it is still fun to play the scenario.

Skriker

The defenders could have Movie Marine type stats maybe?

Ok then....... lets do it like this:

Game played on a 3'x3' table.

1-3 players. Allowed to purchase an HQ unit of up to 233pts (so full 3 man squad can get 700 pt group).

enemy waves enter from a random table edge as follow: All enemy units have -1bs and their range weaponry has its range reduced by 50%.
waves 1-4 troops choices of up to 350 pts per wave.
wave 5 troops of up to 300 pts and 100 pts of elite.
waves 6-9 troops and fast attack choices of up to 375pts per wave.
wave 10 troops of up to 350 and 125 pts of elite.
waves 11-14 troops and fast attack choices of up to 400 pts per wave.
wave 15 troops of up to 400 and 150 pts of elite.
waves 16-19 troops and heavy support choices of up to 400pts per wave.
wave 20 Troops &/or HQ of up to 650 pts.
and so on..............

every 10 waves drop 3 supply crates that grant the following effects:
Medical crate: player regains D3 wounds
Weapon crate: player gains a piece of wargear or codex upgrade worth up to 25 pts.
Tactical crate: player gains a USR from the brb.


keep a board up at your FLGS on which players have hit the highest wave for bragging rights.

Someone actually put this up. Awesome!

This looks like something I can totally get behind. I hope the idea gets enough momentum to actually be played somewhere. I'd love to hear how it went!

What I was thinking was a ranged infantry based defending force with a single IC and a melee based attacking force that sends a wave each turn - real basic and all that but there you go... I made up a little force organization chart, I was thinking that each attacking wave has the same points limit as the defenders total limit - turn 1, both sides are evenly matched - turn 2 onwards, attackers are outnumbered

Victory Conditions:
Attacker: kill the defender's HQ
Defender: keep their HQ alive for a pre-agreed number of turns

Defenders:
1 HQ
2 - 8 Troops
0 - 1 Elite

Attackers (per wave)
3 - 10 Troops
0 - 1 Elite, HQ, heavy support

just some ideas on how the scenario would be conducted...

 mad_eddy_13 wrote:
What I was thinking was a ranged infantry based defending force with a single IC and a melee based attacking force that sends a wave each turn - real basic and all that but there you go... I made up a little force organization chart, I was thinking that each attacking wave has the same points limit as the defenders total limit - turn 1, both sides are evenly matched - turn 2 onwards, attackers are outnumbered

Victory Conditions:
Attacker: kill the defender's HQ
Defender: keep their HQ alive for a pre-agreed number of turns

Defenders:
1 HQ
2 - 8 Troops
0 - 1 Elite

Attackers (per wave)
3 - 10 Troops
0 - 1 Elite, HQ, heavy support

just some ideas on how the scenario would be conducted...

Liking this idea the most for now. I feel there has to be some what of an end game, like turn limit cause if there isn't there isn't enough drive to play.

I'm seeing some pointers taken from DoW II last stand mode, and think that it's a good place to take ideas from. I would personally like to see it being even more like that last stand, in three players controlling a single "hero" (not necessarily HQ) model each make up the defenders agains increasingly larger enemy waves like mentioned earlier. For example, a devastator with a heavy bolter paired with an ork nob with a good ol' big choppa and a tau shas'ui against a wave of cultists led by a chaos marine. There'd be buffs on the heroes to help with being severely outmanned, but I feel it's doable like this. If I ever find the time, I may try to flesh this out myself. Of course, all the heroes should be taken from the same teir within the hierarchy of their army (ie sergeants or equivalents, HQ or equivalents, etc.) Could be quite fun.

Similar but different kind of thing:
http://www.australasianteamchallenge.com/Other/Nurgle_Zombie_Apocolypse_Rule_Book_V1.1.pdf

Nurgle Zombie Apocalypse is a 2-4 player game. Basically you have a single character model and the aim is to last as long as possible

I just placed a scenario on the proposed Rules section for my take on the Last Stand. Find it http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/560222.page

i made my own
The Last Stand
- Recommended survivors 3-6
- 300 points each
- 1 HQ minimum
Special rules
- Limited ammunition: each time you fire (including overwatch) you use a clip. Each gun comes with 1 clip standard, each clip costs 5 points.
- The horde: each zombie turn d6x (Amount of Players) zombies spawn from each side on the turn they approach they may be shot at but otherwise may not move, run or assault. In addition from the start of turn 3, d3x (amount of players) large zombies appear (attached to squad) At the beginning of turn 5 1x (amount of players)boss zombies spawn from randomly determined sides.
- Infection: when a character is killed replace him with a boss zombie, he may not assault that turn.
Profiles
Name WS BS S T W I A LD SV
Zombie 3 0 3 3 1 2 1 6 6+
Large Zombie 3 0 4 4 2 2 2 6 5+
Boss Zombie 3 0 5 5 3 2 3 6 4+

Special Rules
All zombies have slow and Purposeful, feel no pain and furious charge
Large and boss zombies have it will not die
Boss zombies can reanimate on a 6+

will be testing on the weekend
what do you think?

(hopefully not necro)

The all around defence in the battle mission book looks like it could make a good last stand!

I remember doing a zombie game at my FLGS, although a more 'Get to da Choppa' senario

I've been toying with the idea of an "extraction point" game where a defending player has to move to the chosen extraction zone that's marked by an objective marker. At the end of the defender's turn, he can remove D3 friendly units that are in base contact with the extraction marker. They are removed from the table and never return and the defender gains victory points depending on how much of the squad is left (no casualties - 5 points, more than half - 3 points, less than half - 1 point). Vehicles can't be extracted.

The attacker basically plays a kill points game where all enemy non-vehicle units totally wiped out give him 3 victory points and is allowed to bring back his own troops choices that were totally wiped out.

At the end of the game, the attacker also gets 1 victory point for every non-vehicle enemy unit that wasn't extracted.

I remember a last stand game in one of the white dwarfs early when I started the hobby. was based of zulu with waves of orks vs preatorian guard defending a farm stead. if anyone has that wd it has some good mechanics for dealing with waves of attacks l

Without range attacks how would the zombis even get near a tau or eldar army ? 3-4 turns of shoting and if tau take faresight enclave as their army , the zombis will never get in to melee range the suits are just faster . Same with an eldar army with jet bikes and jet seers.

Eihnlazer wrote:Ok then....... lets do it like this:

Game played on a 3'x3' table.

1-3 players. Allowed to purchase an HQ unit of up to 233pts (so full 3 man squad can get 700 pt group).

enemy waves enter from a random table edge as follow: All enemy units have -1bs and their range weaponry has its range reduced by 50%.
waves 1-4 troops choices of up to 350 pts per wave.
wave 5 troops of up to 300 pts and 100 pts of elite.
waves 6-9 troops and fast attack choices of up to 375pts per wave.
wave 10 troops of up to 350 and 125 pts of elite.
waves 11-14 troops and fast attack choices of up to 400 pts per wave.
wave 15 troops of up to 400 and 150 pts of elite.
waves 16-19 troops and heavy support choices of up to 400pts per wave.
wave 20 Troops &/or HQ of up to 650 pts.
and so on..............

every 10 waves drop 3 supply crates that grant the following effects:
Medical crate: player regains D3 wounds
Weapon crate: player gains a piece of wargear or codex upgrade worth up to 25 pts.
Tactical crate: player gains a USR from the brb.


keep a board up at your FLGS on which players have hit the highest wave for bragging rights.

Likin' this ruleset, it's got good clear methodology, and the supply crates allow the defenders to hold out for heroically long periods of time

dementedwombat wrote:Someone actually put this up. Awesome!

This looks like something I can totally get behind. I hope the idea gets enough momentum to actually be played somewhere. I'd love to hear how it went!

This is the kind of thing my game group often looks for, I'll follow this thread until we have a more solid idea of a ruleset, and then get in a 3-player match

mad_eddy_13 wrote:What I was thinking was a ranged infantry based defending force with a single IC and a melee based attacking force that sends a wave each turn - real basic and all that but there you go... I made up a little force organization chart, I was thinking that each attacking wave has the same points limit as the defenders total limit - turn 1, both sides are evenly matched - turn 2 onwards, attackers are outnumbered

Victory Conditions:
Attacker: kill the defender's HQ
Defender: keep their HQ alive for a pre-agreed number of turns

Defenders:
1 HQ
2 - 8 Troops
0 - 1 Elite

Attackers (per wave)
3 - 10 Troops
0 - 1 Elite, HQ, heavy support

just some ideas on how the scenario would be conducted...

Sounds solid. If this force org was combined with the earlier round-per-round points guide-style-thing this could go swimmingly. Though, later rounds (something ridiculous like 30+) could do with some extensions.

BladeSwinga wrote:I'm seeing some pointers taken from DoW II last stand mode, and think that it's a good place to take ideas from. I would personally like to see it being even more like that last stand, in three players controlling a single "hero" (not necessarily HQ) model each make up the defenders agains increasingly larger enemy waves like mentioned earlier. For example, a devastator with a heavy bolter paired with an ork nob with a good ol' big choppa and a tau shas'ui against a wave of cultists led by a chaos marine. There'd be buffs on the heroes to help with being severely outmanned, but I feel it's doable like this. If I ever find the time, I may try to flesh this out myself. Of course, all the heroes should be taken from the same teir within the hierarchy of their army (ie sergeants or equivalents, HQ or equivalents, etc.) Could be quite fun.

Yes... If we could come up with a method for making a hero unit/model it could be used in place of a typical HQ unit/model.

 Selym wrote:

BladeSwinga wrote:I'm seeing some pointers taken from DoW II last stand mode, and think that it's a good place to take ideas from. I would personally like to see it being even more like that last stand, in three players controlling a single "hero" (not necessarily HQ) model each make up the defenders agains increasingly larger enemy waves like mentioned earlier. For example, a devastator with a heavy bolter paired with an ork nob with a good ol' big choppa and a tau shas'ui against a wave of cultists led by a chaos marine. There'd be buffs on the heroes to help with being severely outmanned, but I feel it's doable like this. If I ever find the time, I may try to flesh this out myself. Of course, all the heroes should be taken from the same teir within the hierarchy of their army (ie sergeants or equivalents, HQ or equivalents, etc.) Could be quite fun.

Yes... If we could come up with a method for making a hero unit/model it could be used in place of a typical HQ unit/model.

I imagine it would be as simple as yanking a model from a squad, and just add upgrades that the model would normally be allowed, perhaps +1 wound so it isn't too easy to kill them. So, my heavy bolter dev would end up costing 24 pts (I'm not familiar with the pricing of my other two examples :/ ), so that, plus the cost of the other two heroes would give a starting point for how many points the enemy can come up with to start. A nob with 3 wounds... Well, it'd help balance out their paper armour. Can nobs upgrade their armour?

Anyway, paired with the drop box idea, I think that standard squad members/sergeants (or equivalents) would work well enough for a smaller or more themed game... Or, give HQs access to their entire army's arsenal. Pretty much, I just want to bring a heavy bolter to the fight, be it on a captain or a battle brother.

About the drop boxes, I feel that to add some tactical depth they could contain 20 pts worth of "requisition" that may be saved up and expended on larger purchases (with some limitations). Examples could include adding squad members for those spammy armies such as nids, orks and IG, or getting things like termie armour for PA space marines.

This, I feel, would add some more tactical depth beyond "gimme that gun, I need more shooty". You'd have to choose when to save and when to spend. (Think MW3 survival mode, but skint).

Anyone interested in a levelling up system for the heroes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Making a Hero
A Hero can be any single model chosen from anywhere in the codex. If it is normally part of a larger unit, divide the unit's point cost by the number of models it contains in order to work out it's point cost (Ex: A Plague Marine unit normally costs 120 points. 120/5=24, so the Plague Marine hero costs 24 points), otherwise pay for it normally. A Hero must take the place of the HQ unit in the Force Organisation Chart. A Hero may be upgraded, but it's total points cost must still be deducted from your force's point allowance.
A Hero may also be a Special Character from your codex.
All Heroes automatically gain the "Independent Character" special rule.
A Hero may not be a Vehicle (Except Bjorn the Fell Handed).


Hero Levelling
All characters start at level 0. The maximum level is 20.

Level Total Xp Required
1) 10
2) 20
3) 30
4) 50
5) 70
6) 90
7) 120
8) 150
9) 180
10) 220
11) 260
12) 300
13) 350
14) 400
15) 450
16) 510
17) 570
18) 630
19) 700
20) 770

Gaining Xp:
-Successful hit in shooting or melee (hitting with blast/flame weapons counts as no more than one hit) = +1 pts
-Successful Kill = +1 pts
-Successful Vehicle/Mc Kill = +5 pts
-Destroy an entire infantry unit = +2 pts
-Successful Psychic test = +1 pts
-Survived a turn = +2 pts

Level Rewards:
You may choose ONE of the following per level:
1. +15 requisition
2. +1 to any stat (Strength, Toughness and Wounds cannot be boosted more than twice with this effect)
3. +3 Re-rolls



Automatically Appended Next Post:
*I'm currently writing a draft of some Last Stand rules

Lots of really good ideas here. You could take this any number of ways and have a a good time doing it.

Right, I've got the first draft of the ruleset, link in my signature


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No comments? Anyone?

Any comments on the draft of the rules?
The link is in my signature.

If there aren't any comments, I'll probably not bother refining this into a better ruleset.

We made a Scaled down kill team style set up but limited it to guard and space marines. Everyone had load outs to choose and limitations on weaponry. Then i think we did 3 D6 zombies a turn plus another D6 per player and rolled a scatter to determine the edge the zombies came from. us guys started in the centre each player would have 6 models and the marines 3 models. And 1D6 +1D6 for each player a turn we rolled and if say 2 dice where a 6 result then a bigger tougher zombie came on board with the smaller ones.

Zombies had FnP 5+ and higher toughness. They moved 2D6 to the nearest enemy model and that was the only way they could make it into assault.

On turn 4 we started rolling a dice. on a 5+ the evac aircraft would arrive. The scatter determined which edge it would land. On turn 7 it auto arrives. Then everyone has to get in the ship, the ship will not leave unless EVERYONE agrees to take off, or until everyone is on the ship.

It was a lot of fun. Sometimes the ship would land behind the wall of zombies so we had to choose to use people as bait to lure the zombies etc to get through. A lot of fun. A lot of games try make the zombies weak but we found making them tougher than humans but low I and attacks meant that although they didnt get killed easily they werent amazing either.

We added a drain rule where the zombies rolled reserves and got D6 drains that scatter 4D6 (or 3D6) from the centre, always scatters, and D6 zombies arrive out of each one every turn from the second they arrive. The only way to close these drains is a direct hit from a grenade or getting into melee with the drains.

There where some more specifics i think oh thats right, when a player dies from zombie infection they keep their stats and fight for the zombies an a 3+ but cannot shoot or use weapons. So we frequently had armour save zombies wandering with the horde, was very problematic when the marines turned as we had few AP weaponry haha.