Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So in my book, the Special Issue Ammo works on Stormbolters and Heavy Bolters as well. Also, Pedro Kantor would make these guys Troops, instead of Elites scoring units.

Do you think these changes would make the Sternguard broken? Or just the perfect unit in a highly competetive meta?

well, just make it so SB are 10pts each then I think thats fine, dunna about HBs though, its totally different ammunition (you could say make HB versions of each round but meh)

not sure on troops though, would much prefer that but dunno about balance :/

I don't think that's the case, I think that you only get the special rule with normal bolters. I've heard some arguing about it though and I would cheerfully take the bonus!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry, forget my post, I just realised you werent actually asking you were proposing! My bad!

Taking special ammo on heavy bolters converts it substantially. Would make the heavy bolter cost 20pts.

There is already presedence for this with the hellfire round that scouts could take which made it a Heavy 1 blast AP4 poisoned 2+.

I would propose the following as well.

Kraken round: 45", heavy 3, str5, ap3, armorbane
Dragonfire round: 36", heavy 1 blast, str 5, ap4, ignores cover
Vengence Round: 27", heavy 3, str5, ap2, gets hot

IMO sternguard are the only decent thing in the codex other than the thunderfire

That heavy bolter above would be ace and actually make heavy bolters worth taking. But really I think they need bs 5 to make them true "veterans"

The extra attack is wasted on sternguard. Go +1 bs -1 a.

The extra attack is because they are veterans like the sgts

The problem is they are experts at shooting and been in decades and possibly even centuries of combat yet there shooting skill is that of a 30-40 year old imperial guardsmen.

Dragonfire Round

No, please, no more Ignores Cover. That gak is pure poison

The dragonfire round already exists, he was just asking about special ammo for the HB. I gave him the converted HB rule for dragonfire rounds.

Dragonfire rounds for bolters aren't Blast, why would the heavy bolter version be?

The rule for upgrading weapon types is that the rate of fire and number of shots need to be the same as the base weapon (so, for example, Dragonfire Rounds in bolters are R24" S4 AP5 Rapid Fire, Ignores Cover, so for heavy bolters they should be R36" S5 AP4 Heavy 3, Ignores Cover... not Heavy 1, Blast, Ignores Cover, because that ignores how the heavy bolter works).

Wouldn't special ammo defeat the purpose of it being on a storm bolter as it changes profiles from assault 2 to rapid fire + X

Unless you change the special ammunition for each individual weapon it wouldn't work well.

brother marcus wrote:
The extra attack is because they are veterans like the sgts

The problem is they are experts at shooting and been in decades and possibly even centuries of combat yet there shooting skill is that of a 30-40 year old imperial guardsmen.

I agree completely with this. I would much rather spend my points on other things personally. It aggravates me that they shoot exactly the same as everyone else yet somehow these are ranged experts. I would say give +1 BS and maybe some special rule like relentless so their heavy weapons can be shot constantly if they take them. Vanguard could get +1 WS and +1 A, I just can't ever make myself use Sternguard the way they are, just personal taste prevents me.

^^ omg somebody actually agrees with me :O every one in my gaming circle calls me "gay" or "cheese" for suggesting space marines suck even though I am yet to see them win a game with this new codex and I am even 0-7 myself !!

 Bobaram wrote:

brother marcus wrote:
The extra attack is because they are veterans like the sgts

The problem is they are experts at shooting and been in decades and possibly even centuries of combat yet there shooting skill is that of a 30-40 year old imperial guardsmen.

I agree completely with this. I would much rather spend my points on other things personally. It aggravates me that they shoot exactly the same as everyone else yet somehow these are ranged experts. I would say give +1 BS and maybe some special rule like relentless so their heavy weapons can be shot constantly if they take them. Vanguard could get +1 WS and +1 A, I just can't ever make myself use Sternguard the way they are, just personal taste prevents me.

The issue is not really a sternguard vets problem, but a all veteran problem with GW.
CSM Chosen, Wolf Guard, DE Trueborn, DE Bloodbrides are all veterans as well. They all get +1 attack and +1 Leadership, despite some of them being exclusively shooting units.

brother marcus wrote:
^^ omg somebody actually agrees with me :O every one in my gaming circle calls me "gay" or "cheese" for suggesting space marines suck even though I am yet to see them win a game with this new codex and I am even 0-7 myself !!

0-7?

Schiano? Is that you?

Yea this is me I face manly chaos, eldar and tau all are well equipped to kill marines I either get tabled or by turn 5 end up making my turns last 2 minutes flat because I have like a handful of stuff left

I'm having decent success, 1-1 win loss so far. I find myself thinking a lot more carefully about how I use them, instead of just MARINES RAAAWR, I also like to play what I want instead of net lists. I still don't have a flyer for Guard or Marines.

We could always give them preferred enemy everything to show that they are above average shooters without giving them captain lv BS

I don't have a flyer either. I admit sometimes it's bad luck I.e my pods always scatter as far as possible sternguard suck at shooting and tigarus kills himself

I don't see a problem with Captain Level BS, I mean, these are the guys who eventually become honor guard or captains antways right? Just don't give them the leadership, wounds, and high WS of a Captain.

3 points increase per model

preferred enemy (everything)

relentless

special issue ammo works on stormbolters

What do you guys think?

+3 cost

+1 bs
+1 ws

Special ammo works on ANY non heavy bolter type weapon. (i.e storm bolter, bolt pistols bolt guns)

+10 points sgt gets upgraded to vet sgt, same bs, ws and ld of capt. only 1 wound.

Pedro Cantor allows 1 squad of Sternguard of at least 5 men to be taken as a troop choice. If taken as Pedro's troop choice the unit gets 1 heavy weapon choice of the 2 possible free.

I understand fluff wise why they get +1 a. But gamewise it is a waste with rapid fire weapons, pure and simple! How many gw rules actually think of the fluff in mind? If they did standard marines would be 100pt each killing machines and sternguard would be even better than that! Gamewise however, if you want them to work properly, stick with the same points, give them +1 bs and -1 a. I'll stand by that simply big elephants cant always use small exits it works!

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Dragonfire rounds for bolters aren't Blast, why would the heavy bolter version be?

The rule for upgrading weapon types is that the rate of fire and number of shots need to be the same as the base weapon (so, for example, Dragonfire Rounds in bolters are R24" S4 AP5 Rapid Fire, Ignores Cover, so for heavy bolters they should be R36" S5 AP4 Heavy 3, Ignores Cover... not Heavy 1, Blast, Ignores Cover, because that ignores how the heavy bolter works).

Hellfire rounds already exist for heavy bolter and they are blast.

It makes sence that on such a large caliber round, than an explosive type of ammo would generate a small blast. Dragonfire rounds are incendiary, which means partially hollow shell casings that explode when they impact and release a quick burst of flamable liquid, thus causing a blast and ignoring cover.

My particular version of the dragonfire round is completely legit.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Dragonfire rounds for bolters aren't Blast, why would the heavy bolter version be?

The rule for upgrading weapon types is that the rate of fire and number of shots need to be the same as the base weapon (so, for example, Dragonfire Rounds in bolters are R24" S4 AP5 Rapid Fire, Ignores Cover, so for heavy bolters they should be R36" S5 AP4 Heavy 3, Ignores Cover... not Heavy 1, Blast, Ignores Cover, because that ignores how the heavy bolter works).

Because Hellfire Shells (HB version) is Heavy 1, Blast. Hence the others should follow suit.