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The cybork bodies hit nobs very hard, although they were probably in need of downgrading.

This is coming from a thorough advocate of nobs.

Including 2 variants of 'naut there's 9 heavy support choices having fast kanz or elite dreads or dedicated 'nauts would help alleviate the issue. I understand why theyre heavy but force selection for those of us that don't like dual foc or unbound is going to be a mare.

 YourIntestines wrote:
The cybork bodies hit nobs very hard, although they were probably in need of downgrading.

This is coming from a thorough advocate of nobs.

if anything, I felt Nobz were in need of upgrading. Their only saving grace was the Biker/Painboy combo. They are still pretty useless since they didn't get really ANYTHING new to add to survivability. We now just feel less bad about them dying due to their slight point decrease.

Again, this is all assuming anything be said thus far is true.

i hope all the cry babies do sell their orks, orkses don't cry. period.

i play green tide, and I'm praise mork!! happy.

i think alot of this stems from people wanting their existing playstyle or even current list, to survive an edition change (or 3 in this case) or only get buffed. no company will ever make money doing that.

adapt guys, its not all about having powerbuilds, its about building power, about taking the good and trimming off the fat (SKIN THAT SQUIG!!)

some armies don't have much fat, some get to play however they want to, and still be really good. some of us dont, but it makes us better players in general to take the fatty slab of meat, and make a ribeye out of it.

I've played orks and chaos since 3rd, but i love these guys.

i learned a hard lesson at the beginning of 6th, when the two chaos books were released. i flipping out pissed!!! gw had ruined my armies!!! t5 princes, nerfs to bloodcrushers and letters, no character in the csm book at all, and on and on and on. but you know what, i made it work, i play tested and theory crafted, chit chatted, and made the books work.

now I'm literally crushing people at our group, no holds barred body slams. no mercy. and i love it.

so for this thread, pick up your choppas, start your battlewagons, and WWAAAAAAAAAAAAGH FOR THE WAAAAAAAAAGHH GODZ!!!!!!!!

Melevolence wrote:

 YourIntestines wrote:
The cybork bodies hit nobs very hard, although they were probably in need of downgrading.

This is coming from a thorough advocate of nobs.

if anything, I felt Nobz were in need of upgrading. Their only saving grace was the Biker/Painboy combo. They are still pretty useless since they didn't get really ANYTHING new to add to survivability. We now just feel less bad about them dying due to their slight point decrease.

Again, this is all assuming anything be said thus far is true.

Possibly the people near you take more ordinance. I've seen a Nob mob mow down a BA battleline twice their points cost, losing only 2 models.

 YourIntestines wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 YourIntestines wrote:
The cybork bodies hit nobs very hard, although they were probably in need of downgrading.

This is coming from a thorough advocate of nobs.

if anything, I felt Nobz were in need of upgrading. Their only saving grace was the Biker/Painboy combo. They are still pretty useless since they didn't get really ANYTHING new to add to survivability. We now just feel less bad about them dying due to their slight point decrease.

Again, this is all assuming anything be said thus far is true.

Possibly the people near you take more ordinance. I've seen a Nob mob mow down a BA battleline twice their points cost, losing only 2 models.

I play nothing but Tau, MEQs, and Eldar. Sometimes I see a Necron player, but its rare. So yeah, nothing but Plates and Str 8 weaponry heading my way constantly. My Nobz only lived if they were on bikes. I never, ever, EVER flootslog. It frustrates me to no end, because I have plenty of Nob models, and I want to run them so bad. But doing so would be such a waste of points that I'd never see earn even a single point back.

I mean, even today, a jackass brought a Knight with him to our friendly game. Didn't even have the courtesy to ask if he could use it. I literally had nothing to stop it. At all. My Deff Kopters managed to wound it one time when they came off reserves behind it. 1 wound. Its these sorts of things we needed tools for this book, to actually be able to topple these virtually unwoundable units. I'm just tired of Orks having such unreliable anything. Our access to Str 8 weapons are so far and wide between, and usually only ONE model out of a large squad can even take it.

Just...uhg. I want to KRUMP! And I'm always the one getting KRUMPED!

Now that Badrukk is an IC, where would be a good place to put him? He seems like a good option for commanding a battery of Kustom Mega Kannons; his weapon is similar, he works best when standing still (assuming he still has a gitfinda) and he mitigates their terrible leadership. Also, a space pirate with a battery of energy cannons is pretty cool.

A character with a gitfinda on a bike only gets the benefit when firing Heavy, Ordinance and Salvo weapons, right? Do we have anything that falls under those categories except the Shokk Attack Gun?

I'm going to convert a SAG bike mek regardless of how effective it is. Just the fact that it's possible is fantastic. I'm thinking some kind of sidecar to support the SAG and a cage on the back of the bike for snotlings. Need to find some suitable snot models.

 zachwho wrote:
i hope all the cry babies do sell their orks, orkses don't cry. period.

i play green tide, and I'm praise mork!! happy.

i think alot of this stems from people wanting their existing playstyle or even current list, to survive an edition change (or 3 in this case) or only get buffed. no company will ever make money doing that.

adapt guys, its not all about having powerbuilds, its about building power, about taking the good and trimming off the fat (SKIN THAT SQUIG!!)

some armies don't have much fat, some get to play however they want to, and still be really good. some of us dont, but it makes us better players in general to take the fatty slab of meat, and make a ribeye out of it.

I've played orks and chaos since 3rd, but i love these guys.

i learned a hard lesson at the beginning of 6th, when the two chaos books were released. i flipping out pissed!!! gw had ruined my armies!!! t5 princes, nerfs to bloodcrushers and letters, no character in the csm book at all, and on and on and on. but you know what, i made it work, i play tested and theory crafted, chit chatted, and made the books work.

now I'm literally crushing people at our group, no holds barred body slams. no mercy. and i love it.

so for this thread, pick up your choppas, start your battlewagons, and WWAAAAAAAAAAAAGH FOR THE WAAAAAAAAAGHH GODZ!!!!!!!!

I agree with learning to adapt to changes to an extent, though if the army is no longer enjoyable for you to play then should you force yourself to make it work? Also the name calling is unnecessary, 40k is an expensive hobby with a huge time investment and nothing hurts more then having the feeling that the investment was ruined. People selling off the armies they once loved and possibly leaving the hobby altogether is never a good thing.

 zachwho wrote:
i hope all the cry babies do sell their orks, orkses don't cry. period.

i play green tide, and I'm praise mork!! happy.

i think alot of this stems from people wanting their existing playstyle or even current list, to survive an edition change (or 3 in this case) or only get buffed. no company will ever make money doing that.

adapt guys, its not all about having powerbuilds, its about building power, about taking the good and trimming off the fat (SKIN THAT SQUIG!!)

some armies don't have much fat, some get to play however they want to, and still be really good. some of us dont, but it makes us better players in general to take the fatty slab of meat, and make a ribeye out of it.

I've played orks and chaos since 3rd, but i love these guys.

i learned a hard lesson at the beginning of 6th, when the two chaos books were released. i flipping out pissed!!! gw had ruined my armies!!! t5 princes, nerfs to bloodcrushers and letters, no character in the csm book at all, and on and on and on. but you know what, i made it work, i play tested and theory crafted, chit chatted, and made the books work.

now I'm literally crushing people at our group, no holds barred body slams. no mercy. and i love it.

so for this thread, pick up your choppas, start your battlewagons, and WWAAAAAAAAAAAAGH FOR THE WAAAAAAAAAGHH GODZ!!!!!!!!

Itz wun of dem chaos krazies finkin dey Orkz agin. Tell ur skull krazy god dat hez not orky enuf to join da boyz.

I think a lot of the fustration is that the Ork book had some really glaring weaknesses and it pigeonholed Orkz into a more narrow playstyle to try and overcome the glaring handicap a 4th edition assault army has in a shooting focused edition. Instead of fixing a lot of the major problems and giving some clear game plan and synergy between units, everything feels like its a jumbled mess of randomness that didn't really lock down the major issues and it weakened some of the things that worked for Orks (when your book is one of the worst competitive books in use its hard to justify throwing around a lot of nerfs). Its hard to feel good about Stormboyz having a run that will kill 14% of the unit or Killa Kanz having moral checks when Kanz and Stormboyz where not a problem in 6th edition and in the case of Stormboyz greatly underperformed. There is some value to be mined from this new dex (not sure if we will find gold but maybe some silver or a few gems) but when your kinda the punching bag of the 40k meta its hard to feel like GW thought these changes through. If Ork formations come out later with some pants on head brokenly OP rules then it will all make sense.

 zachwho wrote:
i hope all the cry babies do sell their orks, orkses don't cry. period.

i play green tide, and I'm praise mork!! happy.

i think alot of this stems from people wanting their existing playstyle or even current list, to survive an edition change (or 3 in this case) or only get buffed. no company will ever make money doing that.

adapt guys, its not all about having powerbuilds, its about building power, about taking the good and trimming off the fat (SKIN THAT SQUIG!!)

some armies don't have much fat, some get to play however they want to, and still be really good. some of us dont, but it makes us better players in general to take the fatty slab of meat, and make a ribeye out of it.

I've played orks and chaos since 3rd, but i love these guys.

i learned a hard lesson at the beginning of 6th, when the two chaos books were released. i flipping out pissed!!! gw had ruined my armies!!! t5 princes, nerfs to bloodcrushers and letters, no character in the csm book at all, and on and on and on. but you know what, i made it work, i play tested and theory crafted, chit chatted, and made the books work.

now I'm literally crushing people at our group, no holds barred body slams. no mercy. and i love it.

so for this thread, pick up your choppas, start your battlewagons, and WWAAAAAAAAAAAAGH FOR THE WAAAAAAAAAGHH GODZ!!!!!!!!

^ this, without the "cry babies" though

I understand the frustration of some here and there, but please, give it at least a try before selling your beloved army
learn from facts and experience, then decide ... please don't rush to conclusions

 Vankraken wrote:

 zachwho wrote:
i hope all the cry babies do sell their orks, orkses don't cry. period.

i play green tide, and I'm praise mork!! happy.

i think alot of this stems from people wanting their existing playstyle or even current list, to survive an edition change (or 3 in this case) or only get buffed. no company will ever make money doing that.

adapt guys, its not all about having powerbuilds, its about building power, about taking the good and trimming off the fat (SKIN THAT SQUIG!!)

some armies don't have much fat, some get to play however they want to, and still be really good. some of us dont, but it makes us better players in general to take the fatty slab of meat, and make a ribeye out of it.

I've played orks and chaos since 3rd, but i love these guys.

i learned a hard lesson at the beginning of 6th, when the two chaos books were released. i flipping out pissed!!! gw had ruined my armies!!! t5 princes, nerfs to bloodcrushers and letters, no character in the csm book at all, and on and on and on. but you know what, i made it work, i play tested and theory crafted, chit chatted, and made the books work.

now I'm literally crushing people at our group, no holds barred body slams. no mercy. and i love it.

so for this thread, pick up your choppas, start your battlewagons, and WWAAAAAAAAAAAAGH FOR THE WAAAAAAAAAGHH GODZ!!!!!!!!

Itz wun of dem chaos krazies finkin dey Orkz agin. Tell ur skull krazy god dat hez not orky enuf to join da boyz.

I think a lot of the fustration is that the Ork book had some really glaring weaknesses and it pigeonholed Orkz into a more narrow playstyle to try and overcome the glaring handicap a 4th edition assault army has in a shooting focused edition. Instead of fixing a lot of the major problems and giving some clear game plan and synergy between units, everything feels like its a jumbled mess of randomness that didn't really lock down the major issues and it weakened some of the things that worked for Orks (when your book is one of the worst competitive books in use its hard to justify throwing around a lot of nerfs). Its hard to feel good about Stormboyz having a run that will kill 14% of the unit or Killa Kanz having moral checks when Kanz and Stormboyz where not a problem in 6th edition and in the case of Stormboyz greatly underperformed. There is some value to be mined from this new dex (not sure if we will find gold but maybe some silver or a few gems) but when your kinda the punching bag of the 40k meta its hard to feel like GW thought these changes through. If Ork formations come out later with some pants on head brokenly OP rules then it will all make sense.

Agreed with most of this though I feel waiting for some DLC to "fix" your army is not a good thing. I think most people just want an army that is fitting to the background, internally balanced and fun to play. Surely this is not too much to ask when a new codex comes out?

So are Orks susceptible to Fear now?

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:
If someone is unhappy with a codex update they have every right to be upset, they are the one who invested the time and money into their army and they have every right to sell or shelve it if they wish without being made fun of.

That parts not directed at you btw.

I wouldn't abandon Orks just yet, but... this is a thread full of Ork players, known for their dedication to what is most certainly the best faction in the game, and yet we have lots of grumbling and even some supposed army sales.

That said... if your like me, and already think "d3 victory points" edition is pretty crappy as is, maybe getting Orks isn't a great idea.

 Vankraken wrote:
The thing i don't really get with all of this is the relative randomness of all the changes that where made. While some of the stuff fixed really lacking units like Kommandos, Flash Gitz, and Tankbustas, most of the changes feel more like making changes for the sake of saying they made something different like the unique FOC for Orkz when you can just do a double FOC and get all the other much needed FOC slots for 1 additional HQ and troop. Who is gonna make a list that they need more than 6 troops and 2 HQs but not bother to take 3 more elite/fast/heavy slots?

I think this new dex has stuff to work with but honestly i feel like they made ideas for changes for each unit and just rolled dice to see which changes to each unit to make. Trukks got nerfed/changed because trukk lists where OP or that ramshackle was an uninteresting mechanic? I get that GW wants to sell plastic so they might nerf the current meta stuff to sell new things but honestly they don't really seem to have any reasoning or direction for a lot of these changes.

This very much sums it up. A lot of changes seem to have happened because change. Trukks were nerfed because... well gak, Ramshackle was the best part of the codex IMO, so feth knows why they did this to it. New FoC in "lol what FoC" edition for reasons.

Whats the change to Kommandos? From what I've seen, they got stealth and are otherwise identical. This is an improvement only in the technical sense - thats still a pretty gak unit. Ditto for tankbustas - I've only seen first blood vehicle kill = 2 VP, and a dedicated trukk transport. The latter is less of an improvement and more of a "why the hell did they not have this?". If the cheaper rockets thing is across the board and they're 10 points, they're possibly not bad at all though.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Also, Warbikers are pretty gak at melee for what they cost. Their old strengths were dakka and durability to heavy weapons. Now, they might be better dakka than before (assuming dakkaguns still the same?), but they're definitely not durable in the slightest, and even with their cheaper price I can't see them doing very much before getting blasted off of the table.

Seven bikers and a biker painboy now is only one point more expensive than eight bikers in the last codex and I'd much rather have 4+ armour and 5+ FNP than 4+ armour and 4+ cover. Plenty of things ignore cover and medium armour, almost nothing ignores FNP on a T5 model and you can stack it with a saving throw.

Bikers might not have got as good as you would expect, extrapolating from Space Marines and Eldar, but they clearly got better than they were before.

I'm looking at them in isolation, without that Biker Painboy they're crap - unless of course thats a squad upgrade and not an IC. At 18 points each for the loss of exhaust cloud, compared biker to biker with the old warbikers they're worse in my opinion.

With that out of the way, they do become nice with the Painboy attached - because I'd take 5+ FNP over 4+ cover too especially on cheaper bikes. But then again, the Painboy biker is one less painboy someplace else.

Our access to Str 8 weapons are so far and wide between, and usually only ONE model out of a large squad can even take it.

What about the new buggies? Cheaper, cheaper rocket upgrade (free?), and more per squad, and outflanking - most of the benefits of deffkoptas (which assumably lost 4+ cover), trading T5 W2 4+ for AV10 and none of their terrible morale issues.

Or those Mek Guns. Those are good, if we had more stuff like this the Ork codex wouldn't be such a letdown.

Edit:

 zachwho wrote:
i hope all the cry babies do sell their orks, orkses don't cry. period.

adapt guys, its not all about having powerbuilds, its about building power, about taking the good and trimming off the fat (SKIN THAT SQUIG!!)

Not this gak again. Some players just want a fun codex that plays how Orks are suppost to play. I couldn't give two squigs about "power slamming" my opponents with some new combo. Any argument that assumes that this is the intended goal of the players its directed at is inherently flawed.

rollawaythestone wrote:
So are Orks susceptible to Fear now?

I assume so.

Tankbustas got 2 points cheaper per model and no longer have to shoot at nearest tank, thats a perk.

Yes orks are susceptible to fear now.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I'm looking at them in isolation, without that Biker Painboy they're crap - unless of course thats a squad upgrade and not an IC. At 18 points each for the loss of exhaust cloud, compared biker to biker with the old warbikers they're worse in my opinion.

You get 40% more bikers for your points. That's 40% more survivability and 40% more killing power.

Under the best possible circumstances, exhaust cloud gave you a 100% boost to survivability. But that was only when you were being shot with weapons of AP 4 or better which didn't have Ignores Cover.

So we traded being 100% better at one specific thing sometimes for being 40% better at almost everything all the time. I'd call that at least a fair exchange. On top of that, we also got 3+ cover when Turbo-Boosting.

The only issue I see if that Deffkoptas were already superior and just got even better, so you only really want bikes now for the ability to put a biker HQ with them.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I'm looking at them in isolation, without that Biker Painboy they're crap - unless of course thats a squad upgrade and not an IC. At 18 points each for the loss of exhaust cloud, compared biker to biker with the old warbikers they're worse in my opinion.

You get 40% more bikers for your points. That's 40% more survivability and 40% more killing power.

Under the best possible circumstances, exhaust cloud gave you a 100% boost to survivability. But that was only when you were being shot with weapons of AP 4 or better which didn't have Ignores Cover.

So we traded being 100% better at one specific thing sometimes for being 40% better at almost everything all the time. I'd call that at least a fair exchange. On top of that, we also got 3+ cover when Turbo-Boosting.

The only issue I see if that Deffkoptas were already superior and just got even better, so you only really want bikes now for the ability to put a biker HQ with them.

Yeah, BigMek on bike is useful in the bike squad with a KFF, especially on the relic bike, Painboy on bike is also a good fit for the squad.
You can still jink with the bikes, and dropping to snap shots for orks isnt as big a loss as it is to other races.

i was in character, i was being an ork.

I've had several armies that I've sold recently eldar waveserpent
spam. i didn't like the play style.

but I've never sold anything i loved, well except my blood crushers, i still regret that. i wish i still had them.

iI'm just trying to say, give this some time, let it sink in, lets find the ribeye together!! remember the pain from a burn is only temporary, but the cool ass scar is forever.


if you dont love the orks, then by all means sell away. but if you love these bald headed freaks, give it some time!

Can deff dreds still be taken as troops?

Does the extended Turbo-Boost on the relic bike affect the whole squad or just the character?

Tankbustas are now thirteen points and still no more effective at hunting tanks? Apart from the fact they are elite, they don't seem to offer much.

Do I have it right that Deffkoptas are 30 points with any of the gun options? It seems that a big problem for many ork units will be that Deffkoptas do their job better. Do they get access to killsaws?

kaimarion wrote:
Can deff dreds still be taken as troops?

Apparently not: only Boyz and Grots can be Troops, whatever your HQ

Unless you go FW models ... but that may also be updated soon?

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I'm looking at them in isolation, without that Biker Painboy they're crap - unless of course thats a squad upgrade and not an IC. At 18 points each for the loss of exhaust cloud, compared biker to biker with the old warbikers they're worse in my opinion.

You get 40% more bikers for your points. That's 40% more survivability and 40% more killing power.

Under the best possible circumstances, exhaust cloud gave you a 100% boost to survivability. But that was only when you were being shot with weapons of AP 4 or better which didn't have Ignores Cover.

So we traded being 100% better at one specific thing sometimes for being 40% better at almost everything all the time. I'd call that at least a fair exchange. On top of that, we also got 3+ cover when Turbo-Boosting.

The only issue I see if that Deffkoptas were already superior and just got even better, so you only really want bikes now for the ability to put a biker HQ with them.

They also got a hell of a lot more vulnerable to pie-plates, losing 83% of models under the template instead of 42%, and having more models under it too because of bigger squads. Because thats what I'm worried about - the lasguns, bolters, and other small arms can be dealt to with mobility. Gigantic, long range S7+ AP4+ pie plates cannot, and will kill more bikes than ever. And each plate dropped on the bike is a lot of dead points, not pie plates that aren't 'dropped on something more valuable' as I often see tossed about.

@ dakkamite

can you tell me what orks are supposed to play like? what it is that makes them fun? maybe for you, but not for me and everyone else.

i think orks should be powerslamming other armies, and i fully plan to. you telling me I'm flawed for my perception is well, you know flawed.

 Lloyld wrote:
There is no way to make everyone happy, if GW gave away free rulebooks with the codex and a free Battlewagon kit with every codex release some people would complain that they wanted a different model.

And somehow you think your comments here invalidate the criticisms levelled at the Ork Codex thus far? We've got people giving us information of what's in the Codex, we can use our reading comprehension skills to make judgements and comparisons with the last Ork Codex... but we're not allowed to do this because... what?

Melcavuk, are the old Big Gunz still in the Codex?

Goresaw wrote:
Man, the heavy support slot is going to be HIGHLY contested. Between Big Gunz, Lootaz, and the good ol Battlewagons, they're really not going to be any room there a all.

On one hand, I'm sad to see fearless go. On the other.... it'll be nice to have a mob of 30 boyz go to ground in a ruin, or be able to flee from a pointless combat (weapons are useless!).

The return of the old Waagh is nice... but whats the point? A 'competitive' ork army shoots.

All in all, it looks like we just got Tyranided. Its the same thing as our last book.

This is one thing Im actually glad to have back. I still rush for assaults, because it feels orky. Orks can do a lot in melee, but we just have to get there. And with us being able to cover more ground, that helps a boat load. Especially with Trukk Boyz with their extra +2 inches with boarding planks. I just wish Orks had better tools to chip away at some heavier targets and didn't have to feel so reliant on just the single PK per mob. :(

 nflagey wrote:

Apparently not: only Boyz and Grots can be Troops, whatever your HQ

Unless you go FW models ... but that may also be updated soon?

That's not good at all. Until FW updates their dread mob list I can't use my ork army.
I can't help but feel a little peeved.

 zachwho wrote:
i was in character, i was being an ork.

I've had several armies that I've sold recently eldar waveserpent
spam. i didn't like the play style.

but I've never sold anything i loved, well except my blood crushers, i still regret that. i wish i still had them.

iI'm just trying to say, give this some time, let it sink in, lets find the ribeye together!! remember the pain from a burn is only temporary, but the cool ass scar is forever.


if you dont love the orks, then by all means sell away. but if you love these bald headed freaks, give it some time!

Ah, sorry my bad hard to tell the tone in a message, I totally agree with you though on giving yourself some time to work with the changes before up and selling or shelving an army. That being said what aspects of the new book do you feel most excited about?

Meks can still be taken as part of lootas/burnas?

 zachwho wrote:
@ dakkamite

can you tell me what orks are supposed to play like? what it is that makes them fun? maybe for you, but not for me and everyone else.

i think orks should be powerslamming other armies, and i fully plan to. you telling me I'm flawed for my perception is well, you know flawed.

Everyone has their own idea of how Orks *should* play - and as many posts in this thread have shown, the new codex is not living up to expectations.

Only one of us presumes to tell others how they should be playing and what the proper means of enjoying the game is. The other thinks that all ork players should be adapting to the codex to powerslam their opponents.

Theres nothing wrong with playing like that, but there is everything wrong with assuming we all play like that, and that we are all happy to simply "adapt" and play a new way that we may not enjoy in order to win.