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So honest question: What changes should we expect for Vertus Praetors?

Make HBs AP1? Make Missiles Frag/Krak profiles with basic ML Profiles?

Make lances D2?

Give them an extra wound?
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So honest question: What changes should we expect for Vertus Praetors?

Make HBs AP1? Make Missiles Frag/Krak profiles with basic ML Profiles?

Make lances D2?

Give them an extra wound?


not sure, but i am pretty sure the hurricane bolters are staying at AP0, as ones on the Land Raider Crusader are still AP0. the flak missiles will prob lose the "-1 to non flying", same as the other AA systems. I would think maybe strats keyed around movement options, so for example a strat to advance and fire, but then must roll instead of getting straight 6", or fire twice but cannot move that turn, or cannot move but get a better save as they jink, etc, ect.

thier statline is still pretty good, so im not sure about changes to that.

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xerxeskingofking wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So honest question: What changes should we expect for Vertus Praetors?

Make HBs AP1? Make Missiles Frag/Krak profiles with basic ML Profiles?

Make lances D2?

Give them an extra wound?


not sure, but i am pretty sure the hurricane bolters are staying at AP0, as ones on the Land Raider Crusader are still AP0. the flak missiles will prob lose the "-1 to non flying", same as the other AA systems. I would think maybe strats keyed around movement options, so for example a strat to advance and fire, but then must roll instead of getting straight 6", or fire twice but cannot move that turn, or cannot move but get a better save as they jink, etc, ect.

thier statline is still pretty good, so im not sure about changes to that.


Stooping Dive probably gets a serious rework given how GW is changing fight first/last and fight eligibility issues. Not sure if it'll be a net gain or loss.

Tanglefoot grenade gets new wording or elimination too.

I think you're right on both weapon profiles.

Lances probably just become flat 2 with no other change. The FW ones are still 1D3 though so you never know...
   
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Audustum wrote:
xerxeskingofking wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So honest question: What changes should we expect for Vertus Praetors?

Make HBs AP1? Make Missiles Frag/Krak profiles with basic ML Profiles?

Make lances D2?

Give them an extra wound?


not sure, but i am pretty sure the hurricane bolters are staying at AP0, as ones on the Land Raider Crusader are still AP0. the flak missiles will prob lose the "-1 to non flying", same as the other AA systems. I would think maybe strats keyed around movement options, so for example a strat to advance and fire, but then must roll instead of getting straight 6", or fire twice but cannot move that turn, or cannot move but get a better save as they jink, etc, ect.

thier statline is still pretty good, so im not sure about changes to that.


Stooping Dive probably gets a serious rework given how GW is changing fight first/last and fight eligibility issues. Not sure if it'll be a net gain or loss.

Tanglefoot grenade gets new wording or elimination too.

I think you're right on both weapon profiles.

Lances probably just become flat 2 with no other change. The FW ones are still 1D3 though so you never know...


I have to agree that hurricane bolters on bikes will likely stay at AP 0, but I'm ok with that. They are still good against hordes and armies like dark eldar and don't desperately need a buff in AP imo.
I wouldn't give too much though to the Agamatus weapon stats either, those are easily FAQd.
I agree that dmg 2 on the interceptor lances is likely and I personally hope that they keep the rerolls on the charge.

I agree that it likely for stooping dive to be either removed or completely reworked. Which is where "fight last" abilities come into play. Since we are a combat focused army I think it is likely to believe that we are getting a fight last ability. Maybe they even give it to wardens in some shape or form so they have a reason to exist.

I'd absolutely hate to lose tanglefoot grenade though...
   
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I might suggest that lances do more damage than spears, perhaps as much as axes? I mean, getting hit with a 7 foot piece of steel at jetbike speed, must hurt more than a spear thrust? Split the difference and go to flat 3?
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I might suggest that lances do more damage than spears, perhaps as much as axes? I mean, getting hit with a 7 foot piece of steel at jetbike speed, must hurt more than a spear thrust? Split the difference and go to flat 3?


With full rerolls that's too strong imo. If they give them flat damage 3, then they should lock it behind a 2CP strat that works for the current fight phase.
   
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xerxeskingofking wrote:
not sure, but i am pretty sure the hurricane bolters are staying at AP0, as ones on the Land Raider Crusader are still AP0. the flak missiles will prob lose the "-1 to non flying", same as the other AA systems. I would think maybe strats keyed around movement options, so for example a strat to advance and fire, but then must roll instead of getting straight 6", or fire twice but cannot move that turn, or cannot move but get a better save as they jink, etc, ect.

thier statline is still pretty good, so im not sure about changes to that.

Fire twice strat? People already gak themselves when I roll 36 dice for 3 models.

I personally don't think their guns or melee need much tweaking (maybe a strat they can use in melee to boost their damage), their survivability is what concerns me; the games where I only bring one unit of three cause I wanna bring other stuff they get focused and die really easily.

Then again, I haven't played too many games recently, so I don't know.

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 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
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 mrhappyface wrote:
xerxeskingofking wrote:
not sure, but i am pretty sure the hurricane bolters are staying at AP0, as ones on the Land Raider Crusader are still AP0. the flak missiles will prob lose the "-1 to non flying", same as the other AA systems. I would think maybe strats keyed around movement options, so for example a strat to advance and fire, but then must roll instead of getting straight 6", or fire twice but cannot move that turn, or cannot move but get a better save as they jink, etc, ect.

thier statline is still pretty good, so im not sure about changes to that.

Fire twice strat? People already gak themselves when I roll 36 dice for 3 models.

I personally don't think their guns or melee need much tweaking (maybe a strat they can use in melee to boost their damage), their survivability is what concerns me; the games where I only bring one unit of three cause I wanna bring other stuff they get focused and die really easily.

Then again, I haven't played too many games recently, so I don't know.


No, they still die easily. Permanent transhuman (ala Dark Angels) would help.
   
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Just as an interesting alternative to just cherrypicking the best rules from the Astartes, how about forcing successful wounds against Custodes to be rerolled?

Ideally after the attacker's rerolls to allow for maximum impact

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 IHateNids wrote:
Just as an interesting alternative to just cherrypicking the best rules from the Astartes, how about forcing successful wounds against Custodes to be rerolled?

Ideally after the attacker's rerolls to allow for maximum impact
You can't reroll a die more than once.

So, if my Plaguebearers (who's weapons can reroll all wounds) swing at your Custodes with that rule, the first set of rolls literally does not matter. Since they'd all be rerolled.

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Here's a silly, albeit lore-friendly idea, Custodes seem to be all about pre-match CP usage. X/Y CP, before the match, 1 or 2 units may be selected, of the same unit type, and given Trajaan's re-roll device thing? At any point in the game, that unit may re-roll one save, miss, damage roll, or wound roll, or charge/advance roll?
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Here's a silly, albeit lore-friendly idea, Custodes seem to be all about pre-match CP usage. X/Y CP, before the match, 1 or 2 units may be selected, of the same unit type, and given Trajaan's re-roll device thing? At any point in the game, that unit may re-roll one save, miss, damage roll, or wound roll, or charge/advance roll?


Trajann only allows rerolls to hit and wound of 1. Are you talking about giving a whole unit vicor of the blood games?
   
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No, I'm sorry, I drew a blank, but it's the Moment Shackle. Give that to other units? Regain 3 wounds, Fight again, or make a CP cost nothing.

And yes, I got that confused with VoTBG

Wow that took a while to remember.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 23:30:58


 
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
No, I'm sorry, I drew a blank, but it's the Moment Shackle. Give that to other units? Regain 3 wounds, Fight again, or make a CP cost nothing.

And yes, I got that confused with VoTBG

Wow that took a while to remember.

Eh, I don't think I could see myself using that.

It'd have to be minimum 2CP or you'd just take it on every unit to effectively double your CP. And if it's 2CP then there are very few strats you could use it on and make a profit in CP, in which case it's just making your precious CP temporary since you'll lose that CP if you lose the unit.

2CP to fight again once per battle is a bit risky since you don't know if you'll need the fight twice and you're also banking on the unit making it to melee before it gets destroyed.

And that leaves a 2CP regen d3 wounds which isn't worth it imo.

Trajann's moment shackle is almost exclusively used for the free strat, the other stuff is situational, so I don't see making the ability cost CP to use be very useful.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
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I do think one logical place to go is in being able to customize every unit - possibly every single model? - to be special in some way. In the lore, every single Custodian is a legendary warrior in his own right with a long list of titles, honours, and distinguishing features. The fact that they fight in units at all is an unfortunate case of the lore having to come secondary to the game mechanics, they're really all supposed to be independent characters in their own right who fight independently.

One direction you could take that - and I think it would be better to do with points than with CP, similar to the other 9th edition upgrades - is to let literally every single infantry or biker unit in the army pick and pay points for a title, representing some especially significant past achievement. For units, only one model in the unit could take one; maybe you could let shield captains take two. They could be things like:

"Hammer of Witches - This Custodian famously slew X of Y, a <rogue psyker / heretic / xenos psyker> of tremendous power. His iron will and special training allows him not only to resist psychic attacks, but to turn them back against the attacker. This model can Deny the Witch as if he was a psyker, and every time he successfully passes a Deny the Witch test, he may choose to redirect that power instead of causing it to fail. If he choses to redirect the power, he may choose any target within 12", including an enemy model. Resolve that power against the new target, at the same Warp Charge as the caster originally rolled."

Or "Master of Arms - This Custodian is a legendary master of his chosen weapon, finding infinitesimal vulnerabilities in his opponent's defenses that he can exploit to his benefit. Whenever this model fights in combat, as long as it directs all its attacks at the same unit, you may ignore any modifiers to the hit roll, the wound roll, and the damage characteristic of its melee weapons, and you may also ignore any rules which state that a hit roll or a wound roll occurs only on an unmodified roll of X or above."

You could have 10 or 12 of these different titles, and each army could only include 1 of each title. The above are just examples, and are meant to be suitably powerful, but they could be toned down if necessary.

Basically like the PA stuff, but any Infantry or Biker model would be eligible, not just characters, and they would have more flavor and be more interesting mechanically, really unique stuff befitting what are supposed to be really unique figures. You could fold the PA stuff into this too, keeping only the more interesting ones (i.e. the consolidate in any direction ability, and maybe you could even let it override the normal restrictions so you can do it even when based). The idea being that there's a way to make every model, or at least every unit, in your army feel special and unique, like an individual with specific characteristics and heroic achievements.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/23 02:49:01


 
   
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Theres a few things i'd like added from the HH stuff, like Solidarity (basically coherancy for custodes is one model every 3" instead of 2"), Preternatural skill (no more initiative, but you could have them get fight first against models that have a lower WS than them), and their arae-shrikes gear (made scatter worse, so would make blast weapons get -1 to hit or force them to reroll shots if they roll max).

We do need a forward deploy unit, but the only thing that comes to mind is the Ephoroi assasins. Basically a stealthy custodes assasin guy, sent out to take out key targets. Would have forward deploy and be untargettable unless you were within 9" or something. Would basically have Vexilla Praetor statline and use a guardian spear though.

Tribune would be nice as an alt HQ. Basically liutenant for us. -1 A and W from a captain and with same gear choices.

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yukishiro1 wrote:
I do think one logical place to go is in being able to customize every unit - possibly every single model? - to be special in some way. In the lore, every single Custodian is a legendary warrior in his own right with a long list of titles, honours, and distinguishing features. The fact that they fight in units at all is an unfortunate case of the lore having to come secondary to the game mechanics, they're really all supposed to be independent characters in their own right who fight independently.

One direction you could take that - and I think it would be better to do with points than with CP, similar to the other 9th edition upgrades - is to let literally every single infantry or biker unit in the army pick and pay points for a title, representing some especially significant past achievement. For units, only one model in the unit could take one; maybe you could let shield captains take two. They could be things like:

"Hammer of Witches - This Custodian famously slew X of Y, a <rogue psyker / heretic / xenos psyker> of tremendous power. His iron will and special training allows him not only to resist psychic attacks, but to turn them back against the attacker. This model can Deny the Witch as if he was a psyker, and every time he successfully passes a Deny the Witch test, he may choose to redirect that power instead of causing it to fail. If he choses to redirect the power, he may choose any target within 12", including an enemy model. Resolve that power against the new target, at the same Warp Charge as the caster originally rolled."

Or "Master of Arms - This Custodian is a legendary master of his chosen weapon, finding infinitesimal vulnerabilities in his opponent's defenses that he can exploit to his benefit. Whenever this model fights in combat, as long as it directs all its attacks at the same unit, you may ignore any modifiers to the hit roll, the wound roll, and the damage characteristic of its melee weapons, and you may also ignore any rules which state that a hit roll or a wound roll occurs only on an unmodified roll of X or above."

You could have 10 or 12 of these different titles, and each army could only include 1 of each title. The above are just examples, and are meant to be suitably powerful, but they could be toned down if necessary.

Basically like the PA stuff, but any Infantry or Biker model would be eligible, not just characters, and they would have more flavor and be more interesting mechanically, really unique stuff befitting what are supposed to be really unique figures. You could fold the PA stuff into this too, keeping only the more interesting ones (i.e. the consolidate in any direction ability, and maybe you could even let it override the normal restrictions so you can do it even when based). The idea being that there's a way to make every model, or at least every unit, in your army feel special and unique, like an individual with specific characteristics and heroic achievements.



That's a very cool and fluffy idea, but way too intricate for GW, I feel its too much effort for them to bother creating 10-12 of these upgrades...or even just 5 for that matter.
   
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They did 10-12 upgrades for necron crypteks - less powerful stuff, and most of them suck, but still essentially the same thing. I dunno why they couldn't do it for custodes, and the book is tiny in terms of units so there's not much excuse for saying it's too much work.

I actually expect to see something like this in the new codex, just not sure if it'll be something you can take on any unit in the book rather than just characters, and they'll probably be more boring, derivative things.
   
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yukishiro1 wrote:
They did 10-12 upgrades for necron crypteks - less powerful stuff, and most of them suck, but still essentially the same thing. I dunno why they couldn't do it for custodes, and the book is tiny in terms of units so there's not much excuse for saying it's too much work.

I actually expect to see something like this in the new codex, just not sure if it'll be something you can take on any unit in the book rather than just characters, and they'll probably be more boring, derivative things.


Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see this implemented properly. I'm just not very optimistic. Unfortunately the possibility of it being just for characters with no real meaningful choices like for crypteks is just more likely imo. Same with multiple profiles for our melee weapons, could be super cool, but I don't think it'll happen. I'd love to be wrong on this though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/23 06:24:59


 
   
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yukishiro1 wrote:
I do think one logical place to go is in being able to customize every unit - possibly every single model? - to be special in some way. In the lore, every single Custodian is a legendary warrior in his own right with a long list of titles, honours, and distinguishing features. The fact that they fight in units at all is an unfortunate case of the lore having to come secondary to the game mechanics, they're really all supposed to be independent characters in their own right who fight independently.

One direction you could take that - and I think it would be better to do with points than with CP, similar to the other 9th edition upgrades - is to let literally every single infantry or biker unit in the army pick and pay points for a title, representing some especially significant past achievement. For units, only one model in the unit could take one; maybe you could let shield captains take two. They could be things like:

"Hammer of Witches - This Custodian famously slew X of Y, a <rogue psyker / heretic / xenos psyker> of tremendous power. His iron will and special training allows him not only to resist psychic attacks, but to turn them back against the attacker. This model can Deny the Witch as if he was a psyker, and every time he successfully passes a Deny the Witch test, he may choose to redirect that power instead of causing it to fail. If he choses to redirect the power, he may choose any target within 12", including an enemy model. Resolve that power against the new target, at the same Warp Charge as the caster originally rolled."

Or "Master of Arms - This Custodian is a legendary master of his chosen weapon, finding infinitesimal vulnerabilities in his opponent's defenses that he can exploit to his benefit. Whenever this model fights in combat, as long as it directs all its attacks at the same unit, you may ignore any modifiers to the hit roll, the wound roll, and the damage characteristic of its melee weapons, and you may also ignore any rules which state that a hit roll or a wound roll occurs only on an unmodified roll of X or above."

You could have 10 or 12 of these different titles, and each army could only include 1 of each title. The above are just examples, and are meant to be suitably powerful, but they could be toned down if necessary.

Basically like the PA stuff, but any Infantry or Biker model would be eligible, not just characters, and they would have more flavor and be more interesting mechanically, really unique stuff befitting what are supposed to be really unique figures. You could fold the PA stuff into this too, keeping only the more interesting ones (i.e. the consolidate in any direction ability, and maybe you could even let it override the normal restrictions so you can do it even when based). The idea being that there's a way to make every model, or at least every unit, in your army feel special and unique, like an individual with specific characteristics and heroic achievements.


Keeping track of a different special rule per model would be a nightmare.

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
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What Mr happyface said, not just for my opponent, but I would have to redo my entire model collection to make them somehow stand out from each other. I can't even see doing this on a unit basis.

There has been more and more videos popping up on the tubes about how point for point, the Telemon is easily the toughest vehicle in the game, and how Shield Guard are the toughest troops in the game. I really hope we don't get snapped back by the rubber band this edition.
   
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 JNAProductions wrote:
 IHateNids wrote:
Just as an interesting alternative to just cherrypicking the best rules from the Astartes, how about forcing successful wounds against Custodes to be rerolled?

Ideally after the attacker's rerolls to allow for maximum impact
You can't reroll a die more than once.

So, if my Plaguebearers (who's weapons can reroll all wounds) swing at your Custodes with that rule, the first set of rolls literally does not matter. Since they'd all be rerolled.
Ok, so flip it on it's head.

"Rerolls cannot be made when targetting a unit with X keyword"

Or something like that, but I dont know if it would be too powerful

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 IHateNids wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 IHateNids wrote:
Just as an interesting alternative to just cherrypicking the best rules from the Astartes, how about forcing successful wounds against Custodes to be rerolled?

Ideally after the attacker's rerolls to allow for maximum impact
You can't reroll a die more than once.

So, if my Plaguebearers (who's weapons can reroll all wounds) swing at your Custodes with that rule, the first set of rolls literally does not matter. Since they'd all be rerolled.
Ok, so flip it on it's head.

"Rerolls cannot be made when targetting a unit with X keyword"

Or something like that, but I dont know if it would be too powerful

So like the Stratagem The Emperor's Auspice?

Ghorros wrote:
The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
 Marmatag wrote:
All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f***ing what." - Stephen Fry
 
   
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 mrhappyface wrote:
 IHateNids wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 IHateNids wrote:
Just as an interesting alternative to just cherrypicking the best rules from the Astartes, how about forcing successful wounds against Custodes to be rerolled?

Ideally after the attacker's rerolls to allow for maximum impact
You can't reroll a die more than once.

So, if my Plaguebearers (who's weapons can reroll all wounds) swing at your Custodes with that rule, the first set of rolls literally does not matter. Since they'd all be rerolled.
Ok, so flip it on it's head.

"Rerolls cannot be made when targetting a unit with X keyword"

Or something like that, but I dont know if it would be too powerful

So like the Stratagem The Emperor's Auspice?
But permanent, yeah

Rather than stealing perma-Transhuman (which is Astartes, and Astartes+1), soup up something Custodes themselves already have.

I don't really know, I don't play Custodes (yet) but I picked up a few models in a joblot so would like to have them be interesting to use & feeling unique

Experience is something you get just after you need it
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Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k  
   
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 IHateNids wrote:
 mrhappyface wrote:
 IHateNids wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
 IHateNids wrote:
Just as an interesting alternative to just cherrypicking the best rules from the Astartes, how about forcing successful wounds against Custodes to be rerolled?

Ideally after the attacker's rerolls to allow for maximum impact
You can't reroll a die more than once.

So, if my Plaguebearers (who's weapons can reroll all wounds) swing at your Custodes with that rule, the first set of rolls literally does not matter. Since they'd all be rerolled.
Ok, so flip it on it's head.

"Rerolls cannot be made when targetting a unit with X keyword"

Or something like that, but I dont know if it would be too powerful

So like the Stratagem The Emperor's Auspice?
But permanent, yeah

Rather than stealing perma-Transhuman (which is Astartes, and Astartes+1), soup up something Custodes themselves already have.

I don't really know, I don't play Custodes (yet) but I picked up a few models in a joblot so would like to have them be interesting to use & feeling unique


We actually do have Transhuman already. It's called Arcane Genetic Alchemy.
   
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Permanent emperors auspice is too strong. Preventing all rerolls is an extremely powerful effect, even more powerful than permanent transhuman.
I would be ok with "half" of emperors auspice as a permanent buff for our guys. Preventing either rerolls to hit or to wound.

I stand by my suggestion that our custodian guard with shield should prevent enemy rerolls to hit (both shooting and melee) , and our guardian spears should give -1 to wound, but only in melee.
This way, mixing units with shield and spear would actually be an option since -1 to wound is such a powerful effect, hence why I would only apply it in melee.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/24 15:27:23


 
   
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How about permanent Auspex scan? Any unit that DSs within 12" gets an automatic shooting round against it. Call it Genetic Fluff fluff scientific reflexes.
   
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Dakka Veteran




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How about permanent Auspex scan? Any unit that DSs within 12" gets an automatic shooting round against it. Call it Genetic Fluff fluff scientific reflexes.


That's neat, but doesn't fix our problems. We need to be tough both against shooting and against melee, while also being terrifying to deal with in melee, which we are mostly not. Our shield guard is still decent, but with apparent rise of 3+d3 shooting weapons, this might change. I mean watch the latest tabletop titans game....granted it wasn't a tournament game, but the custodes got absolutely stomped, wasn't even close.
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight




Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How about permanent Auspex scan? Any unit that DSs within 12" gets an automatic shooting round against it. Call it Genetic Fluff fluff scientific reflexes.


That's neat, but doesn't fix our problems. We need to be tough both against shooting and against melee, while also being terrifying to deal with in melee, which we are mostly not. Our shield guard is still decent, but with apparent rise of 3+d3 shooting weapons, this might change. I mean watch the latest tabletop titans game....granted it wasn't a tournament game, but the custodes got absolutely stomped, wasn't even close.


The 1D3+3 stuff is generally single shot and hitting invulns. It takes like 4-5 Raiders to take down one Shield Guardian I think (Scourges with re-roll 1's to Hit and Wound are a bit more efficient but they aren't the popular choice for platform and get -1 if they move or DS). I wouldn't worry about those.

The Incubi getting 14 S5 +1 to wound attacks at flat 2 damage is probably a bit more worrisome. Plus the plethora of fight last.

That said, I think we really are fairly durable conventionally. I worry about MW spam, not even just from Psykers. A 10 man Reaver squad doing Eviscerating Fly By averages 5 MW on a squad. 20 Hellions (but or a gimmick build) is 10 MW average. Some Drukhari are bringing double Void Bombers too (pick a place it moved over, can deal MW to everything within 6").

DG and Necrons are pretty powerful in this regard too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/24 22:08:35


 
   
Made in eu
Dakka Veteran




Audustum wrote:
Tiberias wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How about permanent Auspex scan? Any unit that DSs within 12" gets an automatic shooting round against it. Call it Genetic Fluff fluff scientific reflexes.


That's neat, but doesn't fix our problems. We need to be tough both against shooting and against melee, while also being terrifying to deal with in melee, which we are mostly not. Our shield guard is still decent, but with apparent rise of 3+d3 shooting weapons, this might change. I mean watch the latest tabletop titans game....granted it wasn't a tournament game, but the custodes got absolutely stomped, wasn't even close.


The 1D3+3 stuff is generally single shot and hitting invulns. It takes like 4-5 Raiders to take down one Shield Guardian I think (Scourges with re-roll 1's to Hit and Wound are a bit more efficient but they aren't the popular choice for platform and get -1 if they move or DS). I wouldn't worry about those.

The Incubi getting 14 S5 +1 to wound attacks at flat 2 damage is probably a bit more worrisome. Plus the plethora of fight last.

That said, I think we really are fairly durable conventionally. I worry about MW spam, not even just from Psykers. A 10 man Reaver squad doing Eviscerating Fly By averages 5 MW on a squad. 20 Hellions (but or a gimmick build) is 10 MW average. Some Drukhari are bringing double Void Bombers too (pick a place it moved over, can deal MW to everything within 6").

DG and Necrons are pretty powerful in this regard too.


Yes, you are right, dark lances targeting our shield guard is not the best option. Regarding your point about mortal wounds: maybe we do really need that 5+ feelnopain against all mortals. I was on the fence if that ability would be too good overall, but I now think we are actually really going to need it.
Imo there are only two things that make our guys actually tough against things like incubi: inhibiting rerolls and -1 to wound abilities. I think we really need those in some form in our 9th ed codex that is not exclusively tied to stratagems. Also we need some fight last ability.....seriously GW is really pushing this crap and every army gets it, GW should just give it to wardens, that way the can actually to something.
   
 
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