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Powered through as much as possible of the new codex today, I have to say in general I am liking what I'm reading.

I don't think I can see any place in my army lists for Flayers or Deathmarks, but I really wish I could fit just about everything else! there just aren't enough points to fit everything I want, not by a long shot in 1850 games :S

I'm conflicted with the Triarch stalker currently, he really looks like he would almost be better with a twin linked heavy Gauss canon taking shots from 36" away and staying nearer the back providing AT fire support or twin linking not mech units in range of rapid fire / tesla weapons, without having a power weapon, he is ripe for being stuck in a tarpit, I think they should have costed him at 165 and given it power weapon attacks so it can handle itself in close combat.

Btw an (obvious) little trick to expand your number of Scarab bases: put 3 Scarabs on a base instead of 4, and you have 4 Scarab bases from one Warriors box. A base has 3 wounds on it's profile, so it is actually fitting too

TBD wrote:Btw an (obvious) little trick to expand your number of Scarab bases: put 3 Scarabs on a base instead of 4, and you have 4 Scarab bases from one Warriors box. A base has 3 wounds on it's profile, so it is actually fitting too

Pretty much what I'm doing. A) I get more bang for my buck and B) as you noted, it makes sense - 3 scarabs on a base, 3 wounds. That way all I need is 3 warriors boxes to get a full unit of scarabs. Hopefully a bunch of people will buy warriors and not need the scarabs, put them up on eBay for cheap.

Hah. Hah. Yeah, well, a man can dream, right?

Anyways. I'm going to -try- using pretty much everything. By which I mean, I'm getting enough to field a min unit of whatever. So I buy 2 boxes of Immortals/Deathmarks, try a min-max unit of Immortals, min-max Deathmarks, min of both... WITHOUT putting everything together and painting. Then, once I've tested things out to form an actual opinion, I'll decide how I want them set up and painted.

Speaking of which, anyone else trying something fancy with Necrons? For the heck of it, I want my Necrons to be a little something more than just black and metal... invested in a bit of color-shifting paint to denote 'living metal', and probably going with a snow Tomb World theme.

Okay, I've got my box of Triarch Praetorians/Lychguard. On a first glance the hands look exactly like those of Space Marines, if you look closer you see that the palms are different and the fingers are a bit more pointier and bone-like. I should have taken some green stuff with me.

Hey Guys. I just reread the rules on the Stormlord, and the Rules on the Solar Pulse, in the codex.

The Solar pulse says that it ceases to apply the nightfighting rules until the end of the turn, when it's used. This means that if Night fighting is in effect, it will still apply on the enemies turn.

I didn't read anything about the Solar pulse permanently cancelling the Stormlords ability, only that if he fails his roll to continue it, then it ceases to apply.

Someone else with a codex, can feel free to let me know if I Missed something in it, or if I"m correct about this.

Stormlord's night fighting is NOT permanently cancelled by the orb.

The current debate lies in does the stormlord get lightning strikes if you orb your shooting phase.

Its extremely grey, with the general consensus being no, but that MIGHT just be because it would make stormlord + overlord for 2 courts and 2 orbs mandatory in any tournies.

Therefore, I think we can all agree that it's likely going to need a FAQ for clarification how Solar Pulse interacts with the Stormlord's rules, both with Lightning Strikes and whether or not it may, or may not, cancel his abilities. The fact that there's been arguing here in this thread about it already, rather stubbornly, from both sides, indicates that it probably needs it.

For that matter, what else might need a possible FAQing?

There was the question whether C'tan's difficult->dangerous terrain worked with 'unit counts as moving through difficult terrain' style things like Orikan's first turn ability, or the Tremorstaves. Possibly also a clarification on the Death Ray, since there seemed to be some dispute on that one.

Personnally i think praetorians will be great if taken in bulk with rods since they have low shots and low range numbers will be key i know it would be the same wcost as 10 termies for the same.number but str 5 ap 2 means that unless they are ss th termies they are in trouble and then when they assult they sttike 1st a I 2
another example is against tactical marines their weapons grant them no saves at all and after even striking after the marines their durability really shows of 3+ 5++ and the power weapons would mince any marines left

their strength is postioning they will 9/10 get the charge making up for the lack of attacks and they are very durable jump infantry even more so with a destroyer lord with rez orb since they are JI too now

btw i apologize for any spelling or mistakes as im on a phone.

Praetorians with 1 attack really strike me as being worthless.

They would have been awesome if one of the following were true

1. Invun save
2. 2 attacks
3. Higher Init (4 would have been good) even have fluff justification for this - they never went to sleep
4. You could attach a lord/cryptek to them without slowing them to foot speed.
5. 12 inch range with rods.
6. Half the cost they are now.

As it is now, they will get their heads pounded in by a marine jump squad. Shame, the models are awesome.

If there was ever an army that you'd think of when you heard the words "slow and purposeful" or "relentless", it would be necrons. It feels really odd to me that it's missing.

I always thought of immortals and destroyers epitomizing that aspect of their tactics. Powerful mobile shooting lines shifting like a tide in and out of a solid but flexible core. combined with iconic units like scarabs, monoliths and lords, your fragile but flexible core benefited from a lot of blanket utility.

Now it seems like the idea is to shore up the problems with expensive little tricks that offer very little usefulness besides the unit they were bought for, and beyond the obvious usage.

This army could be super bad ass and I'm just looking at it the wrong way. I have to say the new scarabs, tomb spiders and Crypt walkers really have peaked my interest.

I guess I'm just creeped out by how conditional things are, and how much they cost. troop costs went down, but everything else feels a little sketchy. It's like we bought a lot of hamburger on sale and realized how expensive buns are comparatively...

darkslife wrote:Praetorians with 1 attack really strike me as being worthless.

They would have been awesome if one of the following were true

1. Invun save
2. 2 attacks
3. Higher Init (4 would have been good) even have fluff justification for this - they never went to sleep
4. You could attach a lord/cryptek to them without slowing them to foot speed.
5. 12 inch range with rods.
6. Half the cost they are now.

As it is now, they will get their heads pounded in by a marine jump squad. Shame, the models are awesome.

you can take destroyer lords with them they are IC if i recall and i think the rods are thr better weapon asthey seem to be a balanced anti infantry in assault and shooting plus the lord adds the 4+ RP and more woundd +attacks

Got my stuff from GW today. Just finished the fluff part of the codex and I'm really loving the new directions. I have to say I fell for the GW sales strategy as I bought a Cryptek on impulse whilst picking my order up, shame on my weakness!

darkslife wrote:Stormlord's night fighting is NOT permanently cancelled by the orb.

The current debate lies in does the stormlord get lightning strikes if you orb your shooting phase.

Its extremely grey, with the general consensus being no, but that MIGHT just be because it would make stormlord + overlord for 2 courts and 2 orbs mandatory in any tournies.

There's nothing grey about it, Imotekh's rules say that night fighting brought on by a solar pulse does not induce his lightning strikes. It literally can't be more clear-cut in the book.

Kevin949 wrote:

darkslife wrote:Stormlord's night fighting is NOT permanently cancelled by the orb.

The current debate lies in does the stormlord get lightning strikes if you orb your shooting phase.

Its extremely grey, with the general consensus being no, but that MIGHT just be because it would make stormlord + overlord for 2 courts and 2 orbs mandatory in any tournies.

There's nothing grey about it, Imotekh's rules say that night fighting brought on by a solar pulse does not induce his lightning strikes. It literally can't be more clear-cut in the book.

Ok, that's not what we are talking about Here Kevin.

We're talking about the using solar Pulses in OUR turn Cancelling out his Night fighting Rules, which there is nothing to indicate that it does. The Solar Pulse says it only suspends night fighting for the current turn, resuming it at the end. The Stormlords Night fighting rules, say nothing about this canceling them. The only thing it says is if he fails to make the roll, then his rules are suspended.

No models for wraiths and stalkers makes me a sad panda.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

darkslife wrote:Praetorians with 1 attack really strike me as being worthless.

They would have been awesome if one of the following were true

1. Invun save
2. 2 attacks
3. Higher Init (4 would have been good) even have fluff justification for this - they never went to sleep
4. You could attach a lord/cryptek to them without slowing them to foot speed.
5. 12 inch range with rods.
6. Half the cost they are now.

As it is now, they will get their heads pounded in by a marine jump squad. Shame, the models are awesome.

Just take the Hyperphase Swords and Pistols. They get Str 6 Ap 5 shots and still have 2 Str 5 rending attacks with entropic strike. Much better than those stupid rods.

Sasori wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

darkslife wrote:Stormlord's night fighting is NOT permanently cancelled by the orb.

The current debate lies in does the stormlord get lightning strikes if you orb your shooting phase.

Its extremely grey, with the general consensus being no, but that MIGHT just be because it would make stormlord + overlord for 2 courts and 2 orbs mandatory in any tournies.

There's nothing grey about it, Imotekh's rules say that night fighting brought on by a solar pulse does not induce his lightning strikes. It literally can't be more clear-cut in the book.

Ok, that's not what we are talking about Here Kevin.

We're talking about the using solar Pulses in OUR turn Cancelling out his Night fighting Rules, which there is nothing to indicate that it does. The Solar Pulse says it only suspends night fighting for the current turn, resuming it at the end. The Stormlords Night fighting rules, say nothing about this canceling them. The only thing it says is if he fails to make the roll, then his rules are suspended.

Why did you emphasize "our"? It's obviously going to be on our turn since it's OUR pulses we'd be using. Secondly, I'm pretty sure that in Imotekh's rules that it stated the lightning strikes (which happen in the shooting phase, and solar pulse I believe is in the movement phase) only happen is night fighting is currently in play. Which it would not be, because of the aforementioned phase difference.

Oh, and just because imotekh make's his "does it continue?" roll at the beginning of the necron players turn, that has no real effect on the debate at hand. Only that, obviously, if he failed the roll then the debate would be over.

darkslife wrote:Praetorians with 1 attack really strike me as being worthless.

They would have been awesome if one of the following were true

1. Invun save
2. 2 attacks
3. Higher Init (4 would have been good) even have fluff justification for this - they never went to sleep
4. You could attach a lord/cryptek to them without slowing them to foot speed.
5. 12 inch range with rods.
6. Half the cost they are now.

As it is now, they will get their heads pounded in by a marine jump squad. Shame, the models are awesome.

I could be looking at the wrong item, but Triarch Praetorians on the GW website show as having 2 attacks each.

Kevin949 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

darkslife wrote:Stormlord's night fighting is NOT permanently cancelled by the orb.

The current debate lies in does the stormlord get lightning strikes if you orb your shooting phase.

Its extremely grey, with the general consensus being no, but that MIGHT just be because it would make stormlord + overlord for 2 courts and 2 orbs mandatory in any tournies.

There's nothing grey about it, Imotekh's rules say that night fighting brought on by a solar pulse does not induce his lightning strikes. It literally can't be more clear-cut in the book.

Ok, that's not what we are talking about Here Kevin.

We're talking about the using solar Pulses in OUR turn Cancelling out his Night fighting Rules, which there is nothing to indicate that it does. The Solar Pulse says it only suspends night fighting for the current turn, resuming it at the end. The Stormlords Night fighting rules, say nothing about this canceling them. The only thing it says is if he fails to make the roll, then his rules are suspended.

Why did you emphasize "our"? It's obviously going to be on our turn since it's OUR pulses we'd be using. Secondly, I'm pretty sure that in Imotekh's rules that it stated the lightning strikes (which happen in the shooting phase, and solar pulse I believe is in the movement phase) only happen is night fighting is currently in play. Which it would not be, because of the aforementioned phase difference.

Oh, and just because imotekh make's his "does it continue?" roll at the beginning of the necron players turn, that has no real effect on the debate at hand. Only that, obviously, if he failed the roll then the debate would be over.

Ok starting with the Solar Pulse, we can use it on any turn, including the enemies. So no, it's not "obviously" going to be our turn.

Secondly, the Night Fighting Rules are Technically still in play, since it applies for the full game turn. We've just ceased them for the moment. While I think it doesn't apply his lightning strikes, It is still a bit Grey area.

The Point I Was making earlier, was that people who thought that the Solar Pulse permanently cancelled the Storm lords Ability, which it doesn't.

Using 2 solar pulse to make your opponents first 2 turns night fight while your are not is just dirty... and I like it.

Sarge wrote:

darkslife wrote:Praetorians with 1 attack really strike me as being worthless.

They would have been awesome if one of the following were true

1. Invun save
2. 2 attacks
3. Higher Init (4 would have been good) even have fluff justification for this - they never went to sleep
4. You could attach a lord/cryptek to them without slowing them to foot speed.
5. 12 inch range with rods.
6. Half the cost they are now.

As it is now, they will get their heads pounded in by a marine jump squad. Shame, the models are awesome.

I could be looking at the wrong item, but Triarch Praetorians on the GW website show as having 2 attacks each.

Still, though, I2 with no invuln save... I'd be extremely worried about them surviving combat in the first place, as they'd never see RP if they break.

Then again, if we're using them to take non-CC oriented guys and they can manage to survive until they hit them, it could work. I don't think these guys are built to take on termies whatsoever, that's the lychguard's job. Seems like they can definitely handle anything short of that, but the trick will be delivering them unharmed. Maybe DS them in at a safe-ish distance when they're busy with other threats?

5 Praetorians will only lose 2 guys when charging a full AM squad, but take 4 with them. (I'm assuming one goes down at I2 thanks to a PF sarge). And that's not even counting the face that some of those marines are going to die due to getting shot with rods. After combat you're likely to get one back. If a Destroyer lord came around then you get to do some really nasty stuff.

I'm not really seeing a use for the caster/voidblade combination though.

Praetorians are Fearless, so they won't get Swept.

I just think the I2 hurts them too much. I could totally see taking them, if they had high I. That would be plenty. The only reason they need an Invul save, is because of their I.

Sasori wrote:Praetorians are Fearless, so they won't get Swept.

I just think the I2 hurts them too much. I could totally see taking them, if they had high I. That would be plenty. The only reason they need an Invul save, is because of their I.

What gives Praetorians an invuln? Lychguard get one with the shield, but I didn't see anything about the praetorians getting one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
misread NVM.

Seems like Matt Ward went out of his way to get rid of possible combinations, rather than encouraging them. A few gripes I've got:

- Ghost arks are hilariously expensive
- Praetorians & Lychguard about 10 pts overcosted
- Lack of access to Phaeron ability
- Inability to take more than 10 Immortals in a unit, and without a ghost ark
- C'tan powers cost too much
- Underwhelming special characters
- Annihilation Barges should be more than one per FOC
- No FOC manipulation means less themed lists

Some things I like:

- Wraiths are good, as are scarabs
- Cheaper monoliths
- WBB in every phase of the game, that means four rolls each game turn
-

So I heard you like Scarabs.

Ravendove wrote:So I heard you like Scarabs.

you got about 2-3 squads there, I'd suggest using at most 2 squads as they are going to eat your points and FA slots up fast.

Well, Praetorians are fearless, so, any phase they survive will net RP rolls.

The Initiative sucks, but it's this army's thing, I guess.

What it really comes down to as I'm running numbers here, is the A1. At least against the same points worth of non-elite jump infantry (Marine Assault Squads is what I've been basing numbers on)

That's really what keeps it from being competitive on a point for point basis.

If they could get 2 str 5 power weapon attacks any given phase, that'd be 2/3 of a dead marine per model swinging.

If they get to shoot their assault weapon and then assault, basically 1 dead marine per 2 models while shooting, then, 1 dead marine per praetorian that survives long enough to swing.

As it stands, though, if they end up in combat with a hidden fist, they just can't put damage into the crowd fast enough to keep up with the fist.

Also, weird factoid: 2 rending str 5 attacks are exactly as effective as 1 str 5 power weapon attack at killing MEQ's. However, it makes the +1A assault bonus worth less, so, the rod still wins out vs MEQ's.
VS something with less than MEQ armor or toughness, the voidblade/pistol combo is a pretty clear winner. In case anyone was curious.

edit: Grammar

GiantSlingshot wrote:Well, Praetorians are fearless, so, any phase they survive will net RP rolls.

The Initiative sucks, but it's this army's thing, I guess.

What it really comes down to as I'm running numbers here, is the A1. At least against the same points worth of non-elite jump infantry (Marine Assault Squads is what I've been basing numbers on)

That's really what keeps it from being competitive on a point for point basis.

If they could get 2 str 5 power weapon attacks any given phase, that'd be 2/3 of a dead marine per model swinging.

If they get to shoot their assault weapon and then assault, basically 1 dead marine per 2 models while shooting, then, 1 dead marine per praetorian that survives long enough to swing.

As it stands, though, if they end up in combat with a hidden fist, they just can't put damage into the crowd fast enough to keep up with the fist.

Also, weird factoid: 2 rending str 5 attacks is exactly as effective as 1 str 5 power weapon attack at killing MEQ's. However, it makes the +1A assault bonus worth less, so, the rod still wins out vs MEQ's.
VS something with less than MEQ armor or toughness, the voidblade/pistol combo is a pretty clear winner. In case anyone was curious.

If you give them their upgrade they'll gain +1 attack for having a pistol and a power weapon ( that also has entropic strike).

Griever wrote:Ghost arks are hilariously expensive... Inability to take more than 10 Immortals in a unit, and without a ghost ark

What kind of points are we looking at for Ghost Arks, do they have any upgrades, and why can Immortals not take them? No option?

So, now that the codex is out, will this massively bloated thread finally be put to rest? It certainly can't be considered News and Rumors any longer.

Sunoccard wrote:
If you give them their upgrade they'll gain +1 attack for having a pistol and a power weapon ( that also has entropic strike).

Sadly, not a power weapon, just rending.