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hollowmirror wrote:So I'm curious to where people are leaning on this with? Does the order of a model with entropic strike go roll to hit, then entropic check on a 4+, then roll to penetrate? or roll to hit then roll to penetrate then entropic check?

If it's the first that actually helped out scarabs significantly. with 5 attacks on the charge and the fact spyders can increase scarab squads beyond their starting size you could very likely get 12 scarabs to assault a vehicle if played well. 60 attacks on the charge will certainly mess some tanks up.

I think the Entropic ability goes off as soon as the hit does. So, let's say you get 10 "hits", you immediately roll 10D6. Then you apply their penetration rolls.


So, for instance, a Land Raider moves 12". A full unit of Scarabs attacks it. That's 50 attacks at 16.667% chance to hit. That would average 8 hits. Average of 4 Entropic Strikes would mean it would be an AV 10 Land Raider. The Scarabs wouldn't be able to punch through, but they'd have severly weakened it.

Now, take this into account:

Take Nemesor and give Scarabs Furious Charge. Now, they'll be eating the armour away at a faster Initiative than anything else in combat with it. So, then, they'd lower the AV of a vehicle before Wraiths or other units swing. Not only that, but if they had Furious Charge, they'd be Str. 4 and could glance an AV 10 Land Raider.

Whoops, they are indeed Assault! Holy crap, Assault lascannons...

If I knew I'd be going into an objectives based game, I would almost certainly take Imotekh at this point along with a C'tan with Writhing Worldscape... the use of Night Fight would be primo-awesome when establishing control of objectives... hmmm... I love this codex, there are so many different things you can do!

D:

Dr. Delorean wrote:Whoops, they are indeed Assault! Holy crap, Assault lascannons...

On a model with preferred enemy (everything!).

They're not invincible units of destruction (TM...we're not marines QQ) but it's going to be more than enough to finish off some units.

I can see a pretty nasty combo in the pipe...

5 destroyers + a warscyth-packing destroyer lord.

Shooting phase you zap a marine tac squad with your particle shredder equipped triarch stalker, then follow up with your destroyer squad (twinlinked if you hit just once with the stalker...not hard).
Assault phase you assault the survivers to clean up.

So...assume the stalker scatters hard, hits one model and then fails to kill (armor save say...lets just say)
That leaves 10 healthy marines in cover for the destroyers.

The destroyers move 12" to negate the marines' cover (because they're jump infantry, and they do stuff like that) and open fire.
That's 5 models shooting twice at BS4, so 6 hit and 4 miss. But wait! They're twinlinked! From the 4 rerolls we get two more hits (rounding both partials up because I murphy'd the stalker) for a total of 8.
S5 wounds marines on 3's so 8 hits equates to 5-6 wounds (we'll round down because they're marines. They probably have some special rule or something).
AP3 means no armor. Poor marines (not really)

Then we assault...actually I don't like those odds. Going to take some casualties in my destroyer squad at this rate...meh. Lets keep going just for kicks.
So we assault. Do marines have defensive grenades? They're marines. We'll just assume they do because they're douchebags.
So they go first and get all stabby-like. Two attacks each for the pistol + ccw (despite having bolters too) except for the sergeant who's packing a power fist.

Oh wait...except I'm not totally derp-tastic and packed my destroyer lord with Mindcontrol Scarabs. We'll randomly roll the sergeant because that sounds like fun (I know the odds are against...but this is purely hypothetical...and you KNOW that when you're the one playing the marines you'll randomly roll the sergeant every time).
So 3d6 vs. ld 9. Avg roll on 3d6 is 3.5x3 or 10.5 which is no good. On average he loses at life so...

4 marines attacking twice. They hit on 4's so that's 4 hits even. S4 vs. T5 so they wound on 5's for 1 wound that then probably gets saved.
Necrons go now...
5 attacks from the destroyers (cheating grenades on the marines because I'm too lazy to look it up) all at WS4 vs WS4 so 2 hits, 1 wound, and 1 save from the necron destroyers.
Oh wait...preferred enemy. 3 rerolls = 2 more hits (again...rounding multiple partials up), 1 more wound, but this time he probably fails the armor save. And then there were 4.

Now 3 attacks from the destroyer lord.
3 attacks, 1 hit, 2 rerolls, 1 more hit.
S7 warscythe vs T4 = they get beat. 2 more dead. And then there were 2.

The mind controlled sergeant then opens up a can of whoop-ass on his buddy and pounds him into paste.

And then there was 1.

Marine turn!
Oh...no shooty-shooty at the destroyers for you. They're in CC.
Assuming no new assaults on the CC because I'm not out of position like some people.
Enemy assault phase...the necrons mop up the (once again) mind controlled sergeant ("We randomly picked you out of a group. Of...you. I'm as surprised as you are.")

New necron turn. Oh look...no enemies in CC. The destroyers can move and shoot again.

Not bad...

puma713 wrote:

hollowmirror wrote:So I'm curious to where people are leaning on this with? Does the order of a model with entropic strike go roll to hit, then entropic check on a 4+, then roll to penetrate? or roll to hit then roll to penetrate then entropic check?

If it's the first that actually helped out scarabs significantly. with 5 attacks on the charge and the fact spyders can increase scarab squads beyond their starting size you could very likely get 12 scarabs to assault a vehicle if played well. 60 attacks on the charge will certainly mess some tanks up.

I think the Entropic ability goes off as soon as the hit does. So, let's say you get 10 "hits", you immediately roll 10D6. Then you apply their penetration rolls.


So, for instance, a Land Raider moves 12". A full unit of Scarabs attacks it. That's 50 attacks at 16.667% chance to hit. That would average 8 hits. Average of 4 Entropic Strikes would mean it would be an AV 10 Land Raider. The Scarabs wouldn't be able to punch through, but they'd have severly weakened it.

Now, take this into account:

Take Nemesor and give Scarabs Furious Charge. Now, they'll be eating the armour away at a faster Initiative than anything else in combat with it. So, then, they'd lower the AV of a vehicle before Wraiths or other units swing. Not only that, but if they had Furious Charge, they'd be Str. 4 and could glance an AV 10 Land Raider.

And if you're hitting anything other than an LR, all of a sudden your freakin' gauss flayers are penetrating armor.

I swear. Nercons have a markerlight that twin-links all weapons shooting the target it hit.

So much for ANY codex having ANYTHING unique. The next tau codex will have psychers, mark my words.

Ostrakon wrote:
And if you're hitting anything other than an LR, all of a sudden your freakin' gauss flayers are penetrating armor.

As nasty a target as a LR is...there are other vehicles out there.

Rhinos don't have the AV to survive. Doesn't matter how far they moved.
Dreadnoughts will get to crush some of your swarm bases, but will go down quite quickly.
Lemon Russes are just toast if they shot.

Anything immoble is a foregone conclusion. So, glance them with warriors unit you hit an immobilized result and then have the scarabs mop up.
Tremorstaves can help this too. it says nothing about being ignored by vehicles, and the threat of dangerous terrain could either cause your opponent to not move the vehicle on his turn, or immobilize it if he feels he has no choice and moves it anyway.


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juraigamer wrote:I swear. Nercons have a markerlight that twin-links all weapons shooting the target it hit.

So much for ANY codex having ANYTHING unique. The next tau codex will have psychers, mark my words.

We also got access to the webway. All your rulez/fluff are belong to us.

well if anyone is going to want the closest thing we have to a very funny deathstar we can take obyron and nemesor both attached to a unit of necron lords with sempiternal weave, phase shifter, mindshackle scarabs, and warscythes.

The unit would cost 895 points and you'd have 6 warscythes in the unit, 6 2+/3+, the ability to deepstrike if you want even out of combat, a USR of your choice each turn, a res. orb, and the biggest thing of all 5 mindshackle scarabs.

5 random 3d6 leadership tests on the enemy and every failure will make a enemy model hit his own unit d3 hits with the weapon of your choice.

I love how everyone tries to build things around beating space marines, but the real enemy is imperial guard.

Oh...something else I noticed...

If you roll a 6 on the to-hit during a command barge fly-by...

...you get to decide which model takes that wound.

...squee!

I think Necrons have the tools to beat parking lot IG armies with no problem.

DODcrazy wrote:I love how everyone tries to build things around beating space marines, but the real enemy is imperial guard.

With like nine codexes featuring *just marines* clogging the shelves/release schedule, you bet your ass marines are the enemy. Until they get less books compared to everyone else, they are the enemy.

Of course...that's all beyond the scope of this thread...

Arandmoor wrote:

DODcrazy wrote:I love how everyone tries to build things around beating space marines, but the real enemy is imperial guard.

With like nine codexes featuring *just marines* clogging the shelves/release schedule, you bet your ass marines are the enemy. Until they get less books compared to everyone else, they are the enemy.

Of course...that's all beyond the scope of this thread...

Everything is in scope until we get to 200

peebzguy wrote:
Everything is in scope until we get to 200

As much as I agree...

Seriously...what do you think about a C'tan shard with Time's Arrow and like 3 wraiths with Whip Coils? For a low/mid point game.

I don't quite know why, but it bothers me more than it should that you get saves against a Triarch Stalker's CC attacks. Hell, no saves against Spyders, but your Catachan t-shirt will stop THAT?!


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Arandmoor wrote:

peebzguy wrote:
Everything is in scope until we get to 200

As much as I agree...

Seriously...what do you think about a C'tan shard with Time's Arrow and like 3 wraiths with Whip Coils? For a low/mid point game.

Suggested it like 700 pages ago, but I think I was being too subtle.
I quite like it, personally.

...oh

If I give a wraith a particle caster...he gets a pistol. Will that effectively raise his A to 4 in CC? (not worth it over a whip coil IMO...well...not for the whole squad at least)


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Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I don't quite know why, but it bothers me more than it should that you get saves against a Triarch Stalker's CC attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arandmoor wrote:

peebzguy wrote:
Everything is in scope until we get to 200

As much as I agree...

Seriously...what do you think about a C'tan shard with Time's Arrow and like 3 wraiths with Whip Coils? For a low/mid point game.

Suggested it like 700 pages ago, but I think I was being too subtle.
I quite like it, personally.

I skipped like 5 pages of posts.

I just like how *you* get to pick the targeted enemy model.

Wraiths don't have any CCWs, so adding a single pistol won't give them +1A.

Arandmoor wrote:Oh...something else I noticed...

If you roll a 6 on the to-hit during a command barge fly-by...

...you get to decide which model takes that wound.

...squee!

Picking out the sarge/sanguinary priest/Nob/cryptek/Lord/meltagun/etc will be pretty nice.

Arandmoor wrote:If I give a wraith a particle caster...he gets a pistol. Will that effectively raise his A to 4 in CC? (not worth it over a whip coil IMO...well...not for the whole squad at least)

Yep! And a S6 AP5 shot on the way in, too.
Edit: Huh, MasterSlowPoke makes an interesting point...

Arandmoor wrote:I skipped like 5 pages of posts.

Oh, didn't mean you specifically, just that no one said anything about it then either.

Might be a little tough organizing the C'Tan and Wraiths to all get in combat at the same time, though, since they're faster than it. We'll see how it goes.


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I feel like the timing on Trazyn's Surrogate Hosts ability is unfortunate. It completely negates him having Reanimation Protocols, I believe, except in the event that he rolls a '1' on his "take someone over" roll. Ideally I'd think it should wait until he fails a RP roll; he's too damaged to get back up, so he just reincarnates elsewhere instead.

DODcrazy wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:

DODcrazy wrote:I love how everyone tries to build things around beating space marines, but the real enemy is imperial guard.

With like nine codexes featuring *just marines* clogging the shelves/release schedule, you bet your ass marines are the enemy. Until they get less books compared to everyone else, they are the enemy.

Of course...that's all beyond the scope of this thread...

Boo freakin hoo. The only reason I play 40k is because of space marines, and so do a lot of people. Not everyone enjoys silly space skeleton guys from the movie terminator. The marine hate seems to be everywhere and quite honestly it's obnoxious. I can't go into a store and unpack my army without some stupid moron commenting about how the space marines have this and that and how it's all GW cares about and how I should somehow regret buying those models and playing them, meanwhile he has some silly 12 year old necron or ork army.

I really just wanted to flip through this thread checking out the pictures and stuff but it just seems to be "herp derp I hate space marines herp derp butt hurt derp"

Not so much hate as jealousy.

Marines have over 50% of the codexs, they are updated very quickly every edition, they have the best toys (th/ss termies etc), if anyone else gets something unique (aka monoliths immune to melta) they lose it, but marines get it.

Seriously, if you can not understand why the player base gets sick of marines then you sir have tunnel vision.

Back on topic - I just put together the generic overlord and the stormlord.

Overlord was missing part of a foot due to bubbling, and stormlords power cable leading to his claw was subsumed in resin plastic, and had to be removed.

First overlord I opened in store to hundreds of pin bubbles, the store manager was quick with "have you heard about liquid greenstuff" - yeah that definitely wasn't going to fly.

GW staff also tried to sell me praetorians in a way that was jaw dropping, saying they are the greatest thing etc - and when I pointed out the myriad of issues they have, they tried to claim they were talking about the pistols, and killing tanks. I shook my head at them and just said "scarabs".

I do have 2 boxes coming from a much cheaper than GW Australia source, however they will turn into lychguard with shields, and the 2nd box will turn into crypteks. All my old school lords will get the nice new warscyths as well.

I had my partner with me when I went to purchase the codex and finecast and she thought, and I quote "they were creepy, and stared at me". I must admit that at 0900 on a Saturday I do expect better personal hygiene.

Okay, here's the plan:
Court of 5 Necron Lords, each with a 2+/3++ and Warscythe, for a mere 105 points/model!
Lead them with an Overlord with a Resurrection Orb and probably some other gear, and there you have your deathstar, for only about 700 points! Can't lose!

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Okay, here's the plan:
Court of 5 Necron Lords, each with a 2+/3++ and Warscythe, for a mere 105 points/model!
Lead them with an Overlord with a Resurrection Orb and probably some other gear, and there you have your deathstar, for only about 700 points! Can't lose!

I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

Okay, so between Tyranids and Necrons it's been a few forevers since I played an army with transports.
Let me know if I'm doing this right.

I can take my Night Scythe, Supersonic it up to the enemy flank to get in position and give it a cover save.
If it doesn't get blown up, on my next turn I can keep it stationary, disembark the Lychguard inside, fly it off, and then assault with the 'guard?

Ostrakon wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Okay, here's the plan:
Court of 5 Necron Lords, each with a 2+/3++ and Warscythe, for a mere 105 points/model!
Lead them with an Overlord with a Resurrection Orb and probably some other gear, and there you have your deathstar, for only about 700 points! Can't lose!

I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

*Demolisher round inbound!*

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Okay, so between Tyranids and Necrons it's been a few forevers since I played an army with transports.
Let me know if I'm doing this right.

I can take my Night Scythe, Supersonic it up to the enemy flank to get in position and give it a cover save.
If it doesn't get blown up, on my next turn I can keep it stationary, disembark the Lychguard inside, fly it off, and then assault with the 'guard?

Aye, but you should also be aware that an Immobilized result will wreck it as well, since it's a fast skimmer that moved flat-out.


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Happygrunt wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Okay, here's the plan:
Court of 5 Necron Lords, each with a 2+/3++ and Warscythe, for a mere 105 points/model!
Lead them with an Overlord with a Resurrection Orb and probably some other gear, and there you have your deathstar, for only about 700 points! Can't lose!

I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

*Demolisher round inbound!*

Well, the funny part is that actually wouldn't accomplish a whole lot. 3++/4+++ means you only lose like one of the lords.

Man, that would be such a freaky 1000 point list. You'd never even come close to winning but you'd probably still last 5 turns with a 6 model force.

Ostrakon wrote:Aye, but you should also be aware that an Immobilized result will wreck it as well, since it's a fast skimmer that moved flat-out.

I think that's only if it moved flat-out that turn. As in, the same turn it got Immobilized. As in player turn. So pretty much only if you land it in Dangerous Terrain.
Common misconception.
Or I'm completely wrong and thinking of something else.


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Further correction, Yakface:
Orikan's staff now only rerolls 'to-hit's, not 'to-wound's. =(

It's wrecked if it is imobilized after moving flat out in your turn, and shot down in the enemy's. If you manage to go flat out and fail dangerous terrain or get hit by a stray blast weapon in your turn a normal transport is destroyed along with any passengers (not guys in a night scythe though).

well personally i lik the new necrons and look forward to making and using them in games enemys??? tyranids!

61 minutes until Warhammer World opens. It's funny, I'm sitting right at the source at the moment, but everybody gets their stuff earlier. At least I only need it for the bits.