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4oursword wrote:

Griever wrote:Ghost arks are hilariously expensive... Inability to take more than 10 Immortals in a unit, and without a ghost ark

What kind of points are we looking at for Ghost Arks, do they have any upgrades, and why can Immortals not take them? No option?

Immortals can't take them, nor do they even have the option to be transported in one. They cost 115 points, no upgrades.

I think it's solidly costed, to be honest, considering all the crons can fire out of it with relative safety, including any, say, eldritch lances on board.

So the ark can only carry Warriors?

Ostrakon wrote:

4oursword wrote:

Griever wrote:Ghost arks are hilariously expensive... Inability to take more than 10 Immortals in a unit, and without a ghost ark

What kind of points are we looking at for Ghost Arks, do they have any upgrades, and why can Immortals not take them? No option?

Immortals can't take them, nor do they even have the option to be transported in one. They cost 115 points, no upgrades.

I think it's solidly costed, to be honest, considering all the crons can fire out of it with relative safety, including any, say, eldritch lances on board.

The issue is you're paying 245 points for 10 warriors in an ark. That's 245 points for a non fast scoring skimmer with nothing to threaten outside of 12". Sure it's a bunch of bolter shots once you're in rapid fire range, but then the warriors get assault and die.

Sasori wrote:Hey Guys. I just reread the rules on the Stormlord, and the Rules on the Solar Pulse, in the codex.

The Solar pulse says that it ceases to apply the nightfighting rules until the end of the turn, when it's used. This means that if Night fighting is in effect, it will still apply on the enemies turn.

I didn't read anything about the Solar pulse permanently cancelling the Stormlords ability, only that if he fails his roll to continue it, then it ceases to apply.

Someone else with a codex, can feel free to let me know if I Missed something in it, or if I"m correct about this.

Go back like 3 or 4 pages, or filter the thread on me and you'll see that I 100% agree with you based on what I read on the codex.

4oursword wrote:So the ark can only carry Warriors?

It can carry more than Warriors, but only Warriors can take them as dedicated transports.

If you wanted to have say, immortals or lychguard hijack them you could.

Which brings up another question. Why the hell are ghost arks only for warriors? They're probably the unit who can use them the least. Having open topped transports that your assault units can't take is kind of ridiculous.

That's Ward for you though....

A few other goodies I think are being overlooked.

Harbinger of the Storm
• Weapon: Voltaic Staff (12", S5, AP-, Assault 4 weapon that hits vehicles like Haywire Grenades: roll a D6 and 2-5 = glancing hit, 6 = ).

An assault 4 haywire grenade launcher is just plain mean. It should average 2.6 hits with stuns/immobile from a glance or penetrating hit dooming a vehicle to a scarab assault.

Harbinger of Transmogrification
• Weapon: Termorstave (36", S4, AP-, Assault 1, Blast weapon that causes an enemy unit hit by it to count as moving in difficult terrain in their next movement phase).
• Potential Wargear: Seismic Crumble (A single enemy unit picked at the start of the enemy's assault phase has its assault move reduced by D3" if attempting to assault the Cryptek's unit)

A cryptic with a tremorstave is pretty cheap (Same as 2 scarab bases). The 1/2 combo of tremorstave + seismic crumble costs more, but can really slow down an assault unit. What gets really nasty is combining harbingers of transmogrification with the following C'Tan ability.

• Makes all difficult terrain count as dangerous for the enemy army and makes existing dangerous terrain cause wounds on '1' or '2' instead of the normal '1'.

So the Harbinger of Transmogrification termorstaves a unit that is out in the open and they end up in dangerous terrain that has a 33% chance of immobilizing a vehicle or eating troops. People complain a lot that necrons are weak in CC. I don't see the problem being nearly that bad if an assault unit loses 33% of the squad in the movement phase and loses 33% of the squad again in the assault phase for an assault that might fail.

Combined with Orikan the Diviner's ability to make the opposing player use the lowest of 2D6 on difficult terrain tests a termorstave can practically immobilize an an enemy unit. Plus there is the turn 1 Orikan/C'Tan shenanigans.

A lot of necron units may have problems in assaults, but necrons are unsurpassed by anybody in their ability to screw with an opponent's movement phase and assault phase.

Sasori wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

darkslife wrote:Stormlord's night fighting is NOT permanently cancelled by the orb.

The current debate lies in does the stormlord get lightning strikes if you orb your shooting phase.

Its extremely grey, with the general consensus being no, but that MIGHT just be because it would make stormlord + overlord for 2 courts and 2 orbs mandatory in any tournies.

There's nothing grey about it, Imotekh's rules say that night fighting brought on by a solar pulse does not induce his lightning strikes. It literally can't be more clear-cut in the book.

Ok, that's not what we are talking about Here Kevin.

We're talking about the using solar Pulses in OUR turn Cancelling out his Night fighting Rules, which there is nothing to indicate that it does. The Solar Pulse says it only suspends night fighting for the current turn, resuming it at the end. The Stormlords Night fighting rules, say nothing about this canceling them. The only thing it says is if he fails to make the roll, then his rules are suspended.

Why did you emphasize "our"? It's obviously going to be on our turn since it's OUR pulses we'd be using. Secondly, I'm pretty sure that in Imotekh's rules that it stated the lightning strikes (which happen in the shooting phase, and solar pulse I believe is in the movement phase) only happen is night fighting is currently in play. Which it would not be, because of the aforementioned phase difference.

Oh, and just because imotekh make's his "does it continue?" roll at the beginning of the necron players turn, that has no real effect on the debate at hand. Only that, obviously, if he failed the roll then the debate would be over.

Ok starting with the Solar Pulse, we can use it on any turn, including the enemies. So no, it's not "obviously" going to be our turn.

Secondly, the Night Fighting Rules are Technically still in play, since it applies for the full game turn. We've just ceased them for the moment. While I think it doesn't apply his lightning strikes, It is still a bit Grey area.

The Point I Was making earlier, was that people who thought that the Solar Pulse permanently cancelled the Storm lords Ability, which it doesn't.

Hm, I must have missed in the codex where it said you can use the pulse on the opponents turn then.

As for the other point, yes that is why I made my previous statement because there was contention that that was the case previously and now that many people (all?) have the dex, it's clearly not the case. I should have brought my dex to work today.


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Ostrakon wrote:

Sarge wrote:

darkslife wrote:Praetorians with 1 attack really strike me as being worthless.

They would have been awesome if one of the following were true

1. Invun save
2. 2 attacks
3. Higher Init (4 would have been good) even have fluff justification for this - they never went to sleep
4. You could attach a lord/cryptek to them without slowing them to foot speed.
5. 12 inch range with rods.
6. Half the cost they are now.

As it is now, they will get their heads pounded in by a marine jump squad. Shame, the models are awesome.

I could be looking at the wrong item, but Triarch Praetorians on the GW website show as having 2 attacks each.

Still, though, I2 with no invuln save... I'd be extremely worried about them surviving combat in the first place, as they'd never see RP if they break.

Then again, if we're using them to take non-CC oriented guys and they can manage to survive until they hit them, it could work. I don't think these guys are built to take on termies whatsoever, that's the lychguard's job. Seems like they can definitely handle anything short of that, but the trick will be delivering them unharmed. Maybe DS them in at a safe-ish distance when they're busy with other threats?

5 Praetorians will only lose 2 guys when charging a full AM squad, but take 4 with them. (I'm assuming one goes down at I2 thanks to a PF sarge). And that's not even counting the face that some of those marines are going to die due to getting shot with rods. After combat you're likely to get one back. If a Destroyer lord came around then you get to do some really nasty stuff.

I'm not really seeing a use for the caster/voidblade combination though.

They are fearless, lychguard are not.

Am I the only one thinking about taking Deathmarks w/ an attached Lord? Deathmarks are officially worth it if you take a Royal Court with at least one Lord in it. Strike that, after reading the Army List section as opposed to the Aeons Past section (leaves who Phaeron applies to ambiguous), only Overlords get the Phaeron upgrade, unfortunately. Relentless Deathmarks are still OP in my mind though

Griever wrote:

4oursword wrote:So the ark can only carry Warriors?

It can carry more than Warriors, but only Warriors can take them as dedicated transports.

If you wanted to have say, immortals or lychguard hijack them you could.

Which brings up another question. Why the hell are ghost arks only for warriors? They're probably the unit who can use them the least. Having open topped transports that your assault units can't take is kind of ridiculous.

It's too encourage different builds of the army. Look at this way, if you COULD take arks with immortals, would you EVER take warriors? Probably not. Also, warriors are supposed to be the rank and file (or lower than that?), the staple troop. People complained that warriors were a horrendous Achilles heel to the army and now they have some protection. So you want a ghost ark for your immortals? Take a min warrior unit and DT the ark so it doesn't use a FOC slot (I think that's how DT's work?) Sure it's a few more points, but that's still more firepower on the board. Or, just use the FOC slot and take something else. Whatever. Perhaps they're trying to make it so more and more variety exists and less and less of the "this is the best build ever and you'll never lose with it" kind of stuff.

Orikan math hammer

Normal difficult terrain test best of 2D6

6" move=33.3%
5" move=22.2% (55.5% chance of 5" or better)
4" move=19.4% (75% chance of 4" or better)
3" move=13.8% (88.8% chance of 3" or better)
2" move=8.33% (97.23% chance of 2" or better)
1" move=2.77%

Difficult terrain test with Orikan on the field worst of 2D6

6" move=2.77%
5" move=8.33% (97.23% chance of 5" or less)
4" move=13.8% (88.8% chance of 4" or less)
3" move=19.4% (75% chance of 3" or less)
2" move=22.2% (55.5% chance of 2" or less)
1" move=33.3%

Btw arent guass flayers on the ark defensive weapons being str 4 does that help them ? i can t remeber the ruling for defensive weapons on the top of my head.

I get the distinct feeling that Orikan isn't going to be a competitive choice, he's far too random to be relied on. Plus he's only T4 (most of the time) so he'll eat missiles.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I get the distinct feeling that Orikan isn't going to be a competitive choice, he's far too random to be relied on. Plus he's only T4 (most of the time) so he'll eat missiles.

Uh, that's why you put in a squad...say, of lychguard.

As far as I can see Ghost Arks can only be taken by Warriors and they can be used by Warriors and the Royal Court but not Immortals.

The Royal Court can't have it's own transport though... not Royal enough apparently

I do think that this thread has reached a point where we're no longe talking about rumors, so please take the discussion into the appropriate forum(s), such as 40k general, 40k tactics, etc.

Dealing with the royal court if I'm reading this right you can only ever have one member of a court in a unit at a time even if you have two courts.

Anyone else looking to do a lance battery out of your crypteks?

I'm been thinking of taking Nemesor, 5 crypteks with Destruction and 3 heavy destroyers for passing off tank hunter to try and kill a few tanks.

yakface wrote:

I do think that this thread has reached a point where we're no longe talking about rumors, so please take the discussion into the appropriate forum(s), such as 40k general, 40k tactics, etc.

We could be talking about news though

Ravendove wrote:So I heard you like Scarabs.

Why yes, indeed I DO like Scarabs

So, based on the info in the first page about Force Organization/Units, the max number of Scarab Swarms (individual bases) you could take would be 30?

-3 fast attack slots
->10 max swarm bases per slot

Am I correct in this?

Yes, but Tomb Spyders can buff that.

catharsix wrote:So, based on the info in the first page about Force Organization/Units, the max number of Scarab Swarms (individual bases) you could take would be 30?

-3 fast attack slots
->10 max swarm bases per slot

Am I correct in this?

That is correct. 450 points.

Griever wrote:

4oursword wrote:So the ark can only carry Warriors?

It can carry more than Warriors, but only Warriors can take them as dedicated transports.

If you wanted to have say, immortals or lychguard hijack them you could.

Which brings up another question. Why the hell are ghost arks only for warriors? They're probably the unit who can use them the least. Having open topped transports that your assault units can't take is kind of ridiculous.

Read again. It can only carry Warriors, Royal Court members attached to them, and ICs.


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Griever wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

4oursword wrote:

Griever wrote:Ghost arks are hilariously expensive... Inability to take more than 10 Immortals in a unit, and without a ghost ark

What kind of points are we looking at for Ghost Arks, do they have any upgrades, and why can Immortals not take them? No option?

Immortals can't take them, nor do they even have the option to be transported in one. They cost 115 points, no upgrades.

I think it's solidly costed, to be honest, considering all the crons can fire out of it with relative safety, including any, say, eldritch lances on board.

The issue is you're paying 245 points for 10 warriors in an ark. That's 245 points for a non fast scoring skimmer with nothing to threaten outside of 12". Sure it's a bunch of bolter shots once you're in rapid fire range, but then the warriors get assault and die.

And the warriors are going to be assaulted how? The ark is pretty durable, and AV11 rear means that your average S4 melee attacks can't even scratch it.

I'm not saying that the transport is un-poppable, obviously, but I can think of a lot of armies that are going to have trouble dealing with them. Orks and Tyranids come to mind.

If anyone is interested in an easy way to make a list, check out http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408625.page

I had a test game earlier today. Two questions I need help with:

1. I had a necron lord attached to an Immortal squad. The Immortals were all killed (not revived yet) and the Lord survived. Since the lord isn't a character but attached to the squad, are the Immortals able to come back from the dead?

2. I knew scarabs would be amazing anti-vehicle, but what I tested was down-right madness. The entropic attack applies after they hit right? So if I reduced a vehicle (weakest side) to less than 10 but above 1, can the scarab swarms attack with their strength 3 after the entrophy has been applied?

Lucre wrote:I'm not so bright, maybe someone can hold my hand on this one...
Why are baseline crypteks so expensive? Are you paying through the nose for the ap 3 shots or is there something I'm missing about these upgradable necron warriors?

I get the commissar or warlock comparisons but they seem like a really clunky way to shore up an army's weaknesses or give a squad utility.

Dude...they are 25 points each. I looked.

Blackgaze wrote:I had a test game earlier today. Two questions I need help with:

1. I had a necron lord attached to an Immortal squad. The Immortals were all killed (not revived yet) and the Lord survived. Since the lord isn't a character but attached to the squad, are the Immortals able to come back from the dead?

2. I knew scarabs would be amazing anti-vehicle, but what I tested was down-right madness. The entropic attack applies after they hit right? So if I reduced a vehicle (weakest side) to less than 10 but above 1, can the scarab swarms attack with their strength 3 after the entrophy has been applied?

1. No, the Immortals can not come back, you need at least one model of that type to survive the combat.

2. Yes, the way it's worded leaves no room for interpretation. Your Entropic Strikes takes affect before Pens are rolled.

Blackgaze wrote:I had a test game earlier today. Two questions I need help with:

1. I had a necron lord attached to an Immortal squad. The Immortals were all killed (not revived yet) and the Lord survived. Since the lord isn't a character but attached to the squad, are the Immortals able to come back from the dead?

2. I knew scarabs would be amazing anti-vehicle, but what I tested was down-right madness. The entropic attack applies after they hit right? So if I reduced a vehicle (weakest side) to less than 10 but above 1, can the scarab swarms attack with their strength 3 after the entrophy has been applied?

As sasori said, also it's laid out in the RP rules as well.

Keatonic wrote:If anyone is interested in an easy way to make a list, check out http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408625.page

German players already have their free army builder (onlinecodex) up-to-date


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevin949 wrote:

Blackgaze wrote:I had a test game earlier today. Two questions I need help with:

1. I had a necron lord attached to an Immortal squad. The Immortals were all killed (not revived yet) and the Lord survived. Since the lord isn't a character but attached to the squad, are the Immortals able to come back from the dead?

2. I knew scarabs would be amazing anti-vehicle, but what I tested was down-right madness. The entropic attack applies after they hit right? So if I reduced a vehicle (weakest side) to less than 10 but above 1, can the scarab swarms attack with their strength 3 after the entrophy has been applied?

As sasori said, also it's laid out in the RP rules as well.

What happens to the remaining Lord then? Will he be able to wander around although he normally isn't a IC? Does he die with the rest of the squad? Can he join other squads although no other friendly squad is within 3''?

Sigvatr wrote:

Keatonic wrote:If anyone is interested in an easy way to make a list, check out http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/408625.page

German players already have their free army builder (onlinecodex) up-to-date


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kevin949 wrote:

Blackgaze wrote:I had a test game earlier today. Two questions I need help with:

1. I had a necron lord attached to an Immortal squad. The Immortals were all killed (not revived yet) and the Lord survived. Since the lord isn't a character but attached to the squad, are the Immortals able to come back from the dead?

2. I knew scarabs would be amazing anti-vehicle, but what I tested was down-right madness. The entropic attack applies after they hit right? So if I reduced a vehicle (weakest side) to less than 10 but above 1, can the scarab swarms attack with their strength 3 after the entrophy has been applied?

As sasori said, also it's laid out in the RP rules as well.

What happens to the remaining Lord then? Will he be able to wander around although he normally isn't a IC? Does he die with the rest of the squad? Can he join other squads although no other friendly squad is within 3''?

It's no different than a sergeant in a squad being the last member.