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 lord_blackfang wrote:
I wonder if abilities like banshees' "mostly strike first" tie in to these. Maybe they can simply perform a Counter-Offensive without spending CP.

Nah that's a unit ability that is sometimes countered by stuff like daemonettes.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I wonder if abilities like banshees' "mostly strike first" tie in to these. Maybe they can simply perform a Counter-Offensive without spending CP.

Or they give your army that strategem. Maybe the Avatar gives you one that lets you spend CP to ignore mortal wounds.

In the Necrons 5th edition codex the Chronometron allowed for a reroll of a single D6 each phase. I found that it was pretty invaluable a lot of times.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The stratagem system looks like gold to me. The ones we've seen so far look to be low end of the scale bonuses. Perhaps the top end ones will be orbital bombardments or mass redeployment or something. With these, armies made up of basic but well organised troops might finally be able to take out the high powered cheese floating around these days.

Not likely that extreme. They will be more along the lines of 'instead of rolling you succeed' - charges, psychic tests/summoning, etc. Bigger ones will just affect more units or more rolls.

Narrative is mentioned to have a bombardment.

 nintura wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I wonder if abilities like banshees' "mostly strike first" tie in to these. Maybe they can simply perform a Counter-Offensive without spending CP.

Or they give your army that strategem. Maybe the Avatar gives you one that lets you spend CP to ignore mortal wounds.

I can see this being very plausible since they said that the Avatar could ignore some mortal wounds, not ALL.

only three generic stratagems isn't great - we've been spoiled by Cities of Death and 2nd ed Stratagy cards, I thought we'd have a whole range to choose from.

Hopefully there are a lot of faction stratagems to choose from, but the ones we've seen are very nice. ignoring a morale test is a big one

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
The stratagem system looks like gold to me. The ones we've seen so far look to be low end of the scale bonuses. Perhaps the top end ones will be orbital bombardments or mass redeployment or something. With these, armies made up of basic but well organised troops might finally be able to take out the high powered cheese floating around these days.

Not likely that extreme. They will be more along the lines of 'instead of rolling you succeed' - charges, psychic tests/summoning, etc. Bigger ones will just affect more units or more rolls.

Narrative is mentioned to have a bombardment.

I can live with that.

Not the most original idea, but still a good idea in my book.

I'd give stratagems 8/10 as a final rating.

Stratagems are badass. Resource managing, game changing, tactically deep badass.

I've certainly liked even the more basic mechanics I've used in other systems that interact with a non-model resource-- looking forward to these!

 Thud wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Thud wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/14/new-warhammer-40000-stratagems-may14gw-homepage-post-4/

Stratagems up.

Interesting!

What are your thoughts on them?

Depending on what the army specific ones are, it seems like you might be able to put some brute force behind your tactics.

Like Orks, for instance. They mentioned ignoring a punishing morale test, but if there's a specific Ork one to run and charge as well, you might be able to get high degrees of certainty with one key unit, and then plan around that.

I was thinking then same, murderous charge CP allows 1 squad to charge its full range automaticaly ignoring difficult terrain,the charged unit cannot over watch.

It would take a CP of this calibre to make CC effective IMO and TBH GW have repeatedly told us CC is more vicious than ever so I can imagine orks having some pretty nasty strategies,formations,command points coming there way.

Hey, remember Creed's Tactical Genius?
Guess where it gets its power from now…

That said, if Bjorn showing up is worth one CP, how many CP do you think Robot Guilleman brings to the table?

As for balance questions: the fact that CP are a resource generated pre-game in a predictable manner will aid this greatly. As will the once-per-phase rule in Matched Play. As long as the annual points review includes CP allocation and costs then we should be good.

Charax wrote:
only three generic stratagems isn't great - we've been spoiled by Cities of Death and 2nd ed Stratagy cards, I thought we'd have a whole range to choose from.

Hopefully there are a lot of faction stratagems to choose from, but the ones we've seen are very nice. ignoring a morale test is a big one

What makes you think there are only these three generic strategems?

Maybe certain specialised FOCs will have an attached specialised Stratagem?

Cheers

 Imateria wrote:

Charax wrote:
only three generic stratagems isn't great - we've been spoiled by Cities of Death and 2nd ed Stratagy cards, I thought we'd have a whole range to choose from.

Hopefully there are a lot of faction stratagems to choose from, but the ones we've seen are very nice. ignoring a morale test is a big one

What makes you think there are only these three generic strategems?

"Many of these will be specific to certain missions or factions, but there are three that every army can use:"

From the article.

We can only hope that Command points are restricted to units or characters that genuinely merit them: Imperial Guard Colonels, Force Commanders, Phoenix Lords etc etc

Gaining a CP from capturing an objective, say, a radio station or something, would be acceptable in my opinion.

But they shouldn't be handed out willy-nilly.

*Fingers Crossed* for VIRUS OUTBREAK strategy!

Good times.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
We can only hope that Command points are restricted to units or characters that genuinely merit them: Imperial Guard Colonels, Force Commanders, Phoenix Lords etc etc

Gaining a CP from capturing an objective, say, a radio station or something, would be acceptable in my opinion.

But they shouldn't be handed out willy-nilly.

Ahriman, Guilliman, Creed, Yarrick - guys like that. I can't see non-unique units getting them nor objectives.

Resource management has always been something GW games severely lack, so I am very much loving this system.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
We can only hope that Command points are restricted to units or characters that genuinely merit them: Imperial Guard Colonels, Force Commanders, Phoenix Lords etc etc

Gaining a CP from capturing an objective, say, a radio station or something, would be acceptable in my opinion.

But they shouldn't be handed out willy-nilly.

Ahriman, Guilliman, Creed, Yarrick - guys like that. I can't see non-unique units getting them nor objectives.

Creed? I thought he was dead?

Hmmm. This is not good. We have already lost re-roll for Twin-linked, Re-roll strategem... this may mean a loss of common re-rolls. Given that the bolter that pierced the armor of the guardsmen, now it will be just an autogun with S4... And dreadnoughts still die from a two meltas... Sounds not good for SM.
It makes me think of a faction change. Maybe 'nids? Or powerfull eldar with lots of S6 dakka?

Lost re roill for twin linked? Having 2 guns instead is flat out better you know. Think of all those twin linked SM systems on Land Raiders, Preds, Talons, Razors etc, thats a big buff. Dreads can die to 2 meltas but they can't die from one now.

I'm wondering if other factors can increase or decrease your CPs. For example, in the future IG orders will be automatic, so what are vox casters supposed to do now? Maybe they could be CP generators. Like, for every 3-6 units in your army equipped with one or more, you generate an extra CP. This probably wouldn't happen (or work in practice) though. Just a thought.

 Sturmgeschutz wrote:
Hmmm. This is not good. We have already lost re-roll for Twin-linked, Re-roll strategem... this may mean a loss of common re-rolls. Given that the bolter that pierced the armor of the guardsmen, now it will be just an autogun with S4... And dreadnoughts still die from a two meltas... Sounds not good for SM.
It makes me think of a faction change. Maybe 'nids? Or powerfull eldar with lots of S6 dakka?

Eh, without even seeing the rules you're weighing a faction chance because of a perceived lack of strength your figurines will have? There's not really any way to constructively respond that without being rude.

 RandyMcStab wrote:
Lost re roill for twin linked? Having 2 guns instead is flat out better you know. Think of all those twin linked SM systems on Land Raiders, Preds, Talons, Razors etc, thats a big buff. Dreads can die to 2 meltas but they can't die from one now.

But now Dred may die from lasguns and autopistols! I never use a LR, Predators and Razors. And even this will not make me play them. I like dreadnoughts and tacticool guys in 3+.

 Sturmgeschutz wrote:
Hmmm. This is not good. We have already lost re-roll for Twin-linked, Re-roll strategem... this may mean a loss of common re-rolls. Given that the bolter that pierced the armor of the guardsmen, now it will be just an autogun with S4... And dreadnoughts still die from a two meltas... Sounds not good for SM.
It makes me think of a faction change. Maybe 'nids? Or powerfull eldar with lots of S6 dakka?

You can if you want but you have no idea what armies are good or not. We haven't seen any of the nid rules yet and S6 got rather heavily nerfed by the new toughness system and no AV.

But hey, don't let logic or reason stop you from being a reactionary bandwagoner.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I'm wondering if other factors can increase or decrease your CPs. For example, in the future IG orders will be automatic, so what are vox casters supposed to do now? Maybe they could be CP generators. Like, for every 3-6 units in your army equipped with one or more, you generate an extra CP. This probably wouldn't happen (or work in practice) though. Just a thought.

I guarantee vox caster now will boost the range of orders, like they always should have done.

 Sturmgeschutz wrote:

 RandyMcStab wrote:
Lost re roill for twin linked? Having 2 guns instead is flat out better you know. Think of all those twin linked SM systems on Land Raiders, Preds, Talons, Razors etc, thats a big buff. Dreads can die to 2 meltas but they can't die from one now.

But now Dred may die from lasguns and autopistols! I never use a LR, Predators and Razors. And even this will not make me play them. I like dreadnoughts and tacticool guys in 3+.

Every time someone says something something lasgun/landraider god cries at humanity's wasted potential.

 Sturmgeschutz wrote:

 RandyMcStab wrote:
Lost re roill for twin linked? Having 2 guns instead is flat out better you know. Think of all those twin linked SM systems on Land Raiders, Preds, Talons, Razors etc, thats a big buff. Dreads can die to 2 meltas but they can't die from one now.

But now Dred may die from lasguns and autopistols! I never use a LR, Predators and Razors. And even this will not make me play them. I like dreadnoughts and tacticool guys in 3+.

Oh okay, you do know that if you jump to 'Nids that your new Shiny Swarmlord (mine's gonna be named Mr. Gribble btw) could die to lasguns too, and is probably tougher than a Dreadnought. But hey, don't let the lowly lasgun stop you from worrying about things die-ing.

OT: I do hope the more specialised FOC's don't give out too many CP's. I'd be a bit miffed if the Knights are running around with 5-10 CP's just for taking 4 models when the Marine player can't get that without paying through the nose, it'd feel a bit weighted unfairly then.

Whilst Dreads do have a possibility of losing wounds from crappy basic weapons they also can make saves against Lascannons, and can't be stunned/immobilised/weapon destroyed; swings and roundabouts. It does seem that they will be better than anytime since 2nd Ed.