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Jesus just take the line of discussion to a separate thread. We have some rumors, some interesting, some weird, some disappointing, some that make me anticipate this codex even more. And with might have more to chew on come Friday.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:And what exactly is an "Inquisition army"? There's really no such thing, and hasn't really ever been in the fluff.
There's the Inquisitorial Stormtrooper Corps which is occasionally called up, and whatever retinues the Inquisitors themselves have or whatever the Inquisitors can get seconded to them in a warzone proper. Then there's the Chamber Militants(Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Sisters of Battle) that handle all the really heavy situations.

So, even changing the fluff to where the Inquisition has standing armies...what differentiates it from just being Guard "but better"? Absolutely nothing, aside from the HQ being an Inquisitor rather than a Colonel...unless very radical steps are taken and the Codex ends up being as big as a bloody IA book to cover the different weapon options, etc.

Oh good! Kan's here to tell us why we can't have the army we want, or, in this case, already have.

Sorry WRONGBADFUN, I forgot, if you don't ok it, it can't be done. By anyone. Ever.

Sorry, but you don't already have a "Pure Inquisition Army". You have "Inquisition and Friends".
That's what I've tried to stress time and time again, but nope. You'd rather be obstinate and sling insults.

Kanluwen wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:And what exactly is an "Inquisition army"? There's really no such thing, and hasn't really ever been in the fluff.
There's the Inquisitorial Stormtrooper Corps which is occasionally called up, and whatever retinues the Inquisitors themselves have or whatever the Inquisitors can get seconded to them in a warzone proper. Then there's the Chamber Militants(Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Sisters of Battle) that handle all the really heavy situations.

So, even changing the fluff to where the Inquisition has standing armies...what differentiates it from just being Guard "but better"? Absolutely nothing, aside from the HQ being an Inquisitor rather than a Colonel...unless very radical steps are taken and the Codex ends up being as big as a bloody IA book to cover the different weapon options, etc.

Oh good! Kan's here to tell us why we can't have the army we want, or, in this case, already have.

Sorry WRONGBADFUN, I forgot, if you don't ok it, it can't be done. By anyone. Ever.

Sorry, but you don't already have a "Pure Inquisition Army". You have "Inquisition and Friends".
That's what I've tried to stress time and time again, but nope. You'd rather be obstinate and sling insults.

Calling someone obstinate isn't an insult?

Compared to what he slings around, it's downright complimentary.

Yeah guys, Rule 1. Keep it polite. We don't want the mods locking our shiny GK thread, or handing out warnings.

I swear, I'll never understand why people are so bent on ripping the Inquisition out of their precious codex. It's not like there's some premium on pages or anything.

As I see it, based on the rumors so far, I can say that the book is going to be vary hard to balance, either becoming OP from super awesome special rules and uber kickass wargear, or underpowered because they can't muster the numbers to take down other armies. So unless they get some Guard level HAX, I foresee Horde armies being the rock to the GKs scissors

The idea of arguing a difference between a "Pure Inquisition Army" and an “Inquisition and Friends Army” is arguing fluff semantics. As H,B.M.C. has stated (and I personally agree with this), if there is any fluff that gets in the way of the codex gameplay or design, GW will retcon it (and GW has retconed loads of fluff in the past).

Besides, that being said, according to the rumours listed, it looks like the codex allows a user to field a pure force of either faction (i.e. fluff justification does not matter).

Kanluwen wrote:Sorry, but you don't already have a "Pure Inquisition Army". You have "Inquisition and Friends".
That's what I've tried to stress time and time again, but nope. You'd rather be obstinate and sling insults.

And there he goes again, telling me what my army is.

It's good than Kan knows so much - I don't know how I'd get by without him telling me what's what.

No Kan - I have an Inquisitorial army. I look through various fluff sources - let's use Eisenhorn as an example - where they have various groups of Inquisitors from different Ordos come together to form small armies with inducted troops (or perhaps more organic troops, such as Inquisitorial Storm Troopers). My army is just that - Inquisitors, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, and some of the other Rogues Gallery units. Choices from the Inquisitorial Codices. Not inducted 'Friends'.

Now for the love of the Emperor stop telling people what their armies are and what they can and cannot have - it is so insultingly arrogant that I find it absurd that I'm the first to point it out to you.

Seriously, guys? Do you have to break out into fights in every single thread that you both post in? I get it, you both have radically different viewpoints on nearly every subject, and are perfectly content to tear each other to pieces at the slightest provocation, but enough is enough. For once I'd like to be able to get through a News and Rumor thread without having to see you two duking it out all the time, but I feel like you both have enough to contribute that putting you on Ignore would be a shame.

As for the rumors, I like the fact that if they're correct then the Grey Knights will actually be the psychic badasses they were supposed to be portrayed by. Don't like the fact that there seems to be a lack of FA slots again, though... and I really don't like the idea of them putting the Dreadnoughts in Heavy Support again when they're in the Elites section of other codices.

Gonna have to look over the rumors again and think them over, but those are some of the things that stand out to me.

As stated above, just pressing the matter that "what your army REALLY is" does not matter...

There is butt loads of fluff out there, a lot of it contradicting, especially when it comes to the inquisition. The Inquisition, Ecclesiarchy, Ordos Xenos and all that jazz (in fluff) are so buried in secret, that it makes all these stories possible and none of them impossible.

I think GW did not really elaborate on what exactly these non Astartes/Imperial Guard parts of the Imperium for a reason: they did not want to, in the spirit of making your own army exactly how you want to and not being able to have these frickin rediculous arguments about "your army is x because of y"



The Inquisition and all its affiliates are secrets that have contradicting backgrounds within their own ordos... No one can really tell exactly how they operate because of this AND the number one rule of the Inquisition:

They follow no rules.

I'm pretty sure at this point Kanluwen is just just trolling. Do you really think people could persistently believe what he purports?

I think Inquisition is a pretty cool guy eh kills xenos/heretics/daemons and doesn't afraid of anything.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Sorry, but you don't already have a "Pure Inquisition Army". You have "Inquisition and Friends".
That's what I've tried to stress time and time again, but nope. You'd rather be obstinate and sling insults.

And there he goes again, telling me what my army is.

I'm telling you what your army book contains. I don't know, nor particularly care about, your specific list.

It's good that Kan knows so much - I don't know how I'd get by without him telling me what's what.

I do know so much, I know. It comes from reading alot of the fluff that's relatively current. Crazy, right?

No Kan - I have an Inquisitorial army. I look through various fluff sources - let's use Eisenhorn as an example - where they have various groups of Inquisitors from different Ordos come together to form small armies with inducted troops (or perhaps more organic troops, such as Inquisitorial Storm Troopers).

They don't form "small armies". They form strike forces, which operate with...oh dear, non-Inquisitorial forces. To use an example, the massive assault at the end of "Hereticus". Yes, Eisenhorn and Grumman, etc have their own forces which could (loosely) be deemed Inquisitorial forces(by dint of them being the retinues of the respective Inquisitors).
But what was the vast majority of the army made up of?
Guard forces, under their own command structure, which were being effectively advised by some of the Inquisitors.

My army is just that - Inquisitors, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, and some of the other Rogues Gallery units. Choices from the Inquisitorial Codices. Not inducted 'Friends'.

Here's where one of the problems crops up, at least for me.
Death Cultists are not Inquisitorial units. They aren't even really something that the Ecclesiarchy maintains. They're just vaguely pro-"Imperial"(and not always even that). Unless you're using a Death Cultist unit as a 'counts as' mean to represent Inquisitorial lackeys...they're not a "pure" Inquisitorial choice.
Assassin temples are not Inquisitorial units either, although they do occasionally serve Inquisitorial interests.
Nor are Daemonhosts Inquisitorial assets.

That's what my "and Friends" is referring to. Things that some Inquisitors pick up in their travels != "Inquisitorial" units as a whole. Not every Inquisitor is Eisenhorn, they won't have their own Cherubael. Nor is every Inquisitor a Ravenor, with his own Blank. That is what bothers me about the calls for an "Inquisitorial Army".
There is nothing standardized in the Inquisition, outside of Guard equivalent forces. Every Inquisitor has their own methods, their own staff, their own personal preferences in weaponry, etc.

How the hell do you write an army list to reflect that?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ph34r wrote:I'm pretty sure at this point Kanluwen is just just trolling. Do you really think people could persistently believe what he purports?

How the hell is it "trolling" to think that there's no realistic way to do a "pure" Inquisition force, at least for 40k itself?

There's no standardization. There's no equipment basis to work from, nor skill sets to go by, etc.

Inquisitors are so wildly varying that it would require something like the Guard doctrine system to remotely do anything close to justice for the Inquisition itself.

And even then, you'd be leaving out a ton of different choices.

Please stop.

Neconilis wrote:Please stop.

Indeed.

We really don't need to do this dance again. People build all manner of armies from codices, a key part of the hobby is the inspiration it provides people to make all sorts of armies. And that's cool, if you don't agree with their ideas or interpretation then don't "copy" them. If you do build a very specific archetype or flavour of army then you do, alas, run the risk that this force might well be changed, possibly beyond recognition, as/when/if the codex gets updated. It's quite understandable that people will be .... annoyed... if rumours indicate that their army will be, to some extent or other, rendered invalid when this happens.

But this doesn't justify turning a thread about the general rumours into an argument over little more than semantics.

.. so...

Neconilis wrote:Please stop.

I want a unit called an Impertinent Engine.

Kilkrazy wrote:I want a unit called an Impertinent Engine.

Arco Flatulence...

I'll go to the corner.

Kilkrazy wrote:I want a unit called an Impertinent Engine.

You can call your unit whatever you like.

I wonder what the top secret "final leak" will be? The Grey Knights really work for
Chaos? The God Emperor himself will join the GKs?

The top secret leak will be their answer to hordes-

GKs have a special psychic power, "Grace of the Emperor", that allows them to reroll thier Aegis Artificer Armor rerolls. 2+/2+/2+! There is no stopping them. (This is a joke formed of equal parts speculation and sarcasm)

I'm really curious to see what vehicles they get. Use of that +2 armor facing power could be really nasty in an assault transport. If you put it on the rear, then your unit becomes all but immune to melee attacks, the traditional bane of vehicles closing with the enemy.

malfred wrote:

I wonder what the top secret "final leak" will be?

Please be an Inquisitor kit similar to the SM Commander & chaos Term Lord kits...please please please....

I'm thinking +2AV on Dreads. That's... impressive.

wolfshadow wrote:I think people need to relax and wait and see what we actually get before they start bitching and moaning.

You really should know better by now. This is simply how things are done. Conform or be cast out. LOL.

Gitzbitah wrote:If you put it on the rear, then your unit becomes all but immune to melee attacks, the traditional bane of vehicles closing with the enemy.

I'd hope that GW would be smart enough to remember the Minotaur special rule and have melee attacks hit the weakest armour, rather than only the rear armour.

I'm not sure, honestly. I can't remember exactly how the rule is phrased, but I thought it was specifically rear armor, not weakest facing.

There is every justification for an "Inquisitorial Army;" its not my thing, but it has its merits. This codex however isn't really meant to focus on that. Maybe there are enough merits to justify a full standalone army.

While there are differences I really see this whole thing as much more similar to Chaos Daemons being separated from Chaos Space Marines. GW decided to refocus the what was at the center of each codex.

Given the new notion of Inquisition units, I really think a new SoB/Witchhunters codex in general lends itself better to the Inquisitor-centric slant so many here desire. I hate putting down SoB, but they tend to have less going on than Grey Knight, which gives their codex more to gain in having the kind of diversity a more Inquisitor-centric codex allows.

I hope the book looks something like this video. Everyone gets their time in the light.

Mad4Minis wrote:

malfred wrote:

I wonder what the top secret "final leak" will be?

Please be an Inquisitor kit similar to the SM Commander & chaos Term Lord kits...please please please....

a plastic inquisitor's warband kit with lots of bits to make a retinue with all the options would be awesome... and useful for the grey knights and sister of battle codex as i'd assume inquisitors will make an appearance in their in a similar fashion to how they will for GK. that kit would also be useful for all those people who play rogue trader and dark heresy. hopefully all those uses would generate enough sales to justify the switch to plastic.

malfred wrote:I wonder what the top secret "final leak" will be?

That Sisters of Battle are in the Codex?

If GW retcons the fluff so that GKs are under the command of inquisitors then all GK armies = Inquisitional force. Thus they arent ripping the inquisition out of the book.. they're expanding it!

Retcons really solve everything as long as you forget the past

I doubt that's what they're doing. They've repeatedly said the focus is on GK, that can't really happen with putting Inquisitors too front and center.