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Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure this was actually an unintended result.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure this was actually an unintended result.
I agree. I don't think that the design team intentionally buffs/nerfs units for sales reasons.
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pretre wrote: I've always said that if I was going to start sisters now that I would buy sisters of silence and use third party sisters heads to swap the heads out. That plus bits buying Meltas and heavy weapons should get you what you need.
As for repressors? They are cheaper than Immos and have fire points. What's not to like?
Would that work, since Sisters of Silence is an actual GW model?
I have been seriously considering buying regular Space Marines and just painting them pink.
Voldrak wrote: Looking forward to a 2500 points game now. That used to be my prefered point level in 7th.
Attempting to do a brigade and fit as many immolators since you can get one for every other choices selected in the army.
Came up with this list where everything is barebone.
Canoness x 3
Battle Sisters x 6
Dialogus x 3
Dominions x 3
Retributors x 3
Immolators x 17
Not sure how competitve it would be, but I sure am looking forward to seeing my opponent's face once you drop 17 Immolators on the table.
Two things:
First, how are you arming the BSS, Dominos & Rets?
Second, I'm fairly sure that army would cost more than I paid for my car.
There is no special gear on anything. This is to fit within a 2500 points game. The sisters are basically there to hold objectives when required. The damage output mostly comes from 34d6, highly mobile, immolation flamer hits per turn.
.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 16:33:58
pretre wrote: I've always said that if I was going to start sisters now that I would buy sisters of silence and use third party sisters heads to swap the heads out. That plus bits buying Meltas and heavy weapons should get you what you need.
As for repressors? They are cheaper than Immos and have fire points. What's not to like?
Would that work, since Sisters of Silence is an actual GW model?
I have been seriously considering buying regular Space Marines and just painting them pink.
Absolutely. As long as you modify them appropriately, you should be fine. Also, don't just paint SM pink.
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"I should have taken a photo of the Tyranid game... I killed nearly 40 genestealers (my opponent brought 3 units of 16 for a Battalion) in Turn 1 after they obligingly closed the range for me."
Oh man, that's the kind of game I dream of.
He did it to himself, though. You're suppose to sent a wave of Gargolys in first, with the Genestealers behind a unit of 'Gaunts. And the TMCs behind the Genestealers.
Some other list at 2500 that is a little more realistic. Still using a Brigade
Canoness x 2
Celestine + 1 Geminae
BSS x 6 - Flamer, Heavy Flamer
Imagifiers x 3
Dominions x 3 - 4 meltaguns
Retributors x 3 - 4 heavy bolters
Immolators x 10
That is still 26d6 heavy flamers and 6d6 flamer hits. You also gain 12 heavy bolters and 12 meltaguns. More faith possibility if you move the imagifiers with the sisters in their immolators. Once you get everything out, it could get nasty.
I don't know. 2500 is a weird points value and it is hard to conceive of whether that is anywhere near enough firepower to handle things at 2500. I mean, the flamers are nice, but how're you going to handle 5+ knights?
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I'm not seeing a lot of reason to take Sisters that aren't Dominions or Seraphim.
Rets can Run-n-Gun, hip-firing Heavy Bolters. Sure, they only hit on a 4+ if you move, but with a Cannoness letting you re-roll 1s that is a LOT of dakka. Even MEQs will have to beware that, and other infantry will die like flies.
I am not too concerned with 5 knights to be honest.
They may seem scary with 24 wounds, but it's still only 5 targets to your many more targets. You have board control over them and you don't need to kill them right away. You only need to get them under 12 wounds to start crippling them. They would be on 4+ or 5++ saves against the majority of your weapons and you wound on 4s or 5s mainly. It seems daunting, but I've played against double knights at 2000 and found them to be underwhelming. I don't think 5 would be bad. They would damage you for sure, but then again, you have to expect things to die in this edition. They will die just as easilly however.
I have been seriously considering buying regular Space Marines and just painting them pink.
...
don't just paint SM pink.
Listen to Pretre.
The classic RT sister of battle is a black space marine with a nun's habit, a gas mask, and spikey nipples.
If someone gets annoyed and demands you explain it fluffy, double down and say they're repurposing the armour of all those space marines that got replaced with primaris marines.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Anyway, for that canoness I decided to go just with the eviscerator, and worked the book hand a bit to make her hold it in the left hand (which in turn is now attached to a bionic left arm.) that way I can run her with whichever (holstered) pistol I want.
As for the paint scheme, I'm opting for a bloody rose scheme using the red gem paints to get that polished car red you've seen with the thousand sons. Any thoughts on what I should do with her cloak?
At first I was thinking a crushed velvet but now I'm considering black with gold embroidery.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/19 17:30:35
Melissia wrote: Well, they last marginally longer at any rate. But not enough to make up the enormous difference in firepower compared to just taking meltadoms or rets with multimeltas in repressors.
That said, Sisters have always had superb infantry, however, and the usefulness of infantry in 8th has lead to Sisters having a much better performance thus far. IMO, your tanks choices for Sisters should be about supporting your already superb infantry rather than being taken for their own sake, which is why immolators and repressors are the top choices.
That brings up a good point:
I'm considering a foot slogging Sisters list. Lots of big squads. Big C & Doms with SBs as a first wave, allowing BSSs with Meltas & Combi-Melta to get close. Rets with HBs and Cannoness support to pump out the dakka, As many Imagifiers as I can fit in for AoF spam. And Seraphim with Inferno Pistols as Deep Striking flankers.
Bring a second canoness and some dialogous to buff your footslogger line and you should be golden. Dialogous remember let you reroll morale for units within 6", and canoness has an even bigger effect the bigger the squads she's buffing are. Similarly, your biggest squad is one of your primary targets for getting a second shooting phase, if you're trying to wipe out infantry.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/19 18:03:31
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure this was actually an unintended result.
I agree. I don't think that the design team intentionally buffs/nerfs units for sales reasons.
You're funny. You should do stand-up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: " Also, don't just paint SM pink."
Really? I was thinking of painting the legs, shoulder pads & backpack pink, and the head, chest & arms white. Sort of a Hello Kitty look. Then run them with Sisters rules. I totally WANT to do this. LOL.
Thing is, I just pulled out of my attic a box of Sisters I had left over from before I rage-quit 40k back in 4th ed. They were the only models I kept because I spend so much time painting them.
So now I guess I'm stuck looking to buy leftover Sisters models at my various FLAGS.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
pretre wrote: I don't know. 2500 is a weird points value and it is hard to conceive of whether that is anywhere near enough firepower to handle things at 2500. I mean, the flamers are nice, but how're you going to handle 5+ knights?
The only way I can participate in 40k and not utterly lose my mind is to simply accept that there is no semblance of balance between the armies. None. At all. Therefore, collect an army that you like the look of, and field the most cheesy, over-the-top, one-trick-pony army you can possibly build. Then you know going in that every game you play will be an absolute, one-sided blow-out. With you losing roughly 2/3 of your games.
But your wins will be truly glorious.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/19 18:28:24
Captain Joystick wrote: As for the paint scheme, I'm opting for a bloody rose scheme using the red gem paints to get that polished car red you've seen with the thousand sons. Any thoughts on what I should do with her cloak?
At first I was thinking a crushed velvet but now I'm considering black with gold embroidery.
I'm considering a foot slogging Sisters list. Lots of big squads. Big C & Doms with SBs as a first wave, allowing BSSs with Meltas & Combi-Melta to get close. Rets with HBs and Cannoness support to pump out the dakka, As many Imagifiers as I can fit in for AoF spam. And Seraphim with Inferno Pistols as Deep Striking flankers.
Any thoughts on how a list like this might fair?
I think we work best as a mixed mech force, but I think foot slog can work just because of how cheap our models are.
Melissia wrote: Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure this was actually an unintended result.
I agree. I don't think that the design team intentionally buffs/nerfs units for sales reasons.
You're funny. You should do stand-up.
There are many examples over time that show that they don't do that. New releases with shiny new, expensive models that have crap rules. There are also old, cruddy kits that are plastic that have great rules. Basically, there is no solid proof that they do this.
Really? I was thinking of painting the legs, shoulder pads & backpack pink, and the head, chest & arms white. Sort of a Hello Kitty look. Then run them with Sisters rules. I totally WANT to do this. LOL.
Please, don't.
The only way I can participate in 40k and not utterly lose my mind is to simply accept that there is no semblance of balance between the armies. None. At all. Therefore, collect an army that you like the look of, and field the most cheesy, over-the-top, one-trick-pony army you can possibly build. Then you know going in that every game you play will be an absolute, one-sided blow-out. With you losing roughly 2/3 of your games.
But your wins will be truly glorious.
I've played for a long time (19 years or so) and the great quantity of my first years were losses. That being said, I win more than I lose nowadays with pretty much all my armies. It doesn't have a lot to do with balance, but does have a lot to do with how I pick my lists and play my games.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote: Bring a second canoness and some dialogous to buff your footslogger line and you should be golden. Dialogous remember let you reroll morale for units within 6", and canoness has an even bigger effect the bigger the squads she's buffing are. Similarly, your biggest squad is one of your primary targets for getting a second shooting phase, if you're trying to wipe out infantry.
I don't know that morale is a big enough deal to waste points on a dialogous.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/19 18:53:13
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Captain Joystick wrote: I dunno, if any unit in the SoB arsenal can benefit from the dialogus it's the 20-strong sister squad that just got focussed.
Also, isn't she cheaper than some wargear?
It's a reroll though. If they lose 10 girls, a reroll isn't going to help.
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dracpanzer wrote: Still thinking I might bring one twin inferno pistol seraphim in a squad of five girls. Still cheap enough and just a bit of melta fun along for the ride.
Problem with storm bolter Doms is that I dont have enough of the models, flamers, melta, and bolters I have a ton of...
That's just a matter of money?
Yeah, I bit the bullet and bought up 36 stormbolter girls. Half have already arrived and the rest will be here this week. I've been proxying my bolter girls as stormbolters so far. SB Doms in Repressors are brutal. I had been putting a combi-melta in each squad, but will probably be rolling all 6 SB squads with additional Melta Dom squad doubled up with them as a nasty little surprise.
The Vanguard move is great, but if I don't get first turn, it allows for repositioning but I dont like running them forward into close range just to be targets. I deploy hoping to sieze in that situation, but will vanguard to duck for cover or flank denial if I don't get it.
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Since a foot slogger was brought up, this is a list I spit balled together earlier today based on someone else's idea of 100+ Battle Sisters, Imagifiers and Dialogus. And, no, I don't think the Dialogus does enough to warrant its points but, again, this is someone else's idea made real.
Comes out to exactly 2000 points.
HQ Canoness w/ Power axe & BP Canoness w/ Eviscerator & BP Celestine w/ 2 Geminae
Troops
15 Battle Sisters w/ 3 Storm Bolters
15 Battle Sisters w/ 3 Storm Bolters
15 Battle Sisters w/ 3 Storm Bolters
15 Battle Sisters w/ 3 Storm Bolters
15 Battle Sisters w/ 3 Storm Bolters
Elites
Dialogus
Dialogus
Imagifier
Imagifier
Imagifier
Fast Attack
5 Dominions w/ 4 Meltaguns, 1 Combi-plasma
5 Dominions w/ 4 Meltaguns, 1 Combi-plasma
5 Seraphim w/ 4 Inferno Pistols, Power sword
Heavy Support
5 Retributors w/ 3 Heavy Bolters
5 Retributors w/ 3 Heavy Bolters
5 Retributors w/ 3 Heavy Bolters
Dedicated Transport
Sororitas Repressor
Sororitas Repressor
Doubt this is very good, but I'm sure it'll look impressive on the table!
Edit: Just noticed that Battle Scribe didn't flag this as a Troops choice short of being a Brigade so points would have to be shuffled somehow to get another BSS.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/19 21:37:52
I feel like you need some kind of melee threat. The canoness and celestine are good, but maybe some AM units. I'm softening to Pen Engines.
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Yeah, I bit the bullet and bought up 36 stormbolter girls. Half have already arrived and the rest will be here this week. I've been proxying my bolter girls as stormbolters so far. SB Doms in Repressors are brutal. I had been putting a combi-melta in each squad, but will probably be rolling all 6 SB squads with additional Melta Dom squad doubled up with them as a nasty little surprise.
The Vanguard move is great, but if I don't get first turn, it allows for repositioning but I dont like running them forward into close range just to be targets. I deploy hoping to sieze in that situation, but will vanguard to duck for cover or flank denial if I don't get it.
Repressor/Dominion double-trouble is definitely where it's at. So great dropping off the SB squad after the vanguard move for some T1 control of mid-board objectives and a very respectable amount of supporting dakka, while the Repressor continues onwards with the Meltas still inside.
pretre wrote: Damn! Did you buy them from GW Retail?
Thankfully no, I know quite a few in state players that had armies from way back and a lot of their stormbolters girls were just laying in bins. Probably could of had a lot of them for free, basically had to force them to take some cash. They will be taking simple green baths for a bit.
Captain Joystick wrote: I dunno, if any unit in the SoB arsenal can benefit from the dialogus it's the 20-strong sister squad that just got focussed.
Also, isn't she cheaper than some wargear?
She's 15 points / 1PL. That's basically the same price as three Book of St. Lucius from 3rd edition, and since she can probably cover three squads with her aura if you do it right, that's about right.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Someone already did earlier in this thread, actually. A bit too lazy to look for it atm tho.
As for the other questions...
Flamer does d6 auto-hits. Not auto-wounds. You roll d6 to calculate number of automatic hits, then calculate to-wound as normal, then armor saves as normal for each wound that caused damage.
Meltagun rolls to-hit as normal, then to-wound as normal, then if it successfully wounds, it does 1d6 damage, or 2d6 take the highest if at half range.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/20 01:08:11
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Melissia wrote: Someone already did earlier in this thread, actually. A bit too lazy to look for it atm tho.
As for the other questions...
Flamer does d6 auto-hits. Not auto-wounds. You roll d6 to calculate number of automatic hits, then calculate to-wound as normal, then armor saves as normal for each wound that caused damage.
Meltagun rolls to-hit as normal, then to-wound as normal, then if it successfully wounds, it does 1d6 damage, or 2d6 take the highest if at half range.
Thanks Mel. For the Melta, if 1 Wound MEQ gets hit then I don't really need to roll the D6. But if it were a Character with more than one wound then I would, right?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Iron Hands, Spearhead Detach
Company Captain
Land Raider
Land Raider
Land Raider Crusader
Razorback, Twin Lascannons
Razorback, Twin Assault Cannons
Razorback, Twin Assault Cannons
Mission Scenario was Eternal War 5, using Dawn of War deployment.
He ended up setting up all his tanks in the center of his zone, where his objective was, clustered up behind a big building. I set up my melta teams near the edges of the board, the flamer and storm bolters near the center, and Celestine dead center. The sisters ordinary and the Imagifier set up on my right flank behind a large, multistory building in the no-man's land, so they could move to it on turn one. and the Penitent Engine set up near them. The Exorcist sets up on the left flank, behind a church.
I scout my stuff before the game starts, moving the 4 Dominion squads in their transports forward 12" into the no-man's land. One squad of Meltaguns is sheltered from the Land Raiders by a big building, but the left flank one is in the open, and the ones in the center are really in the open.
Iron Hands 1:
He pull out the Crusader, one Land Raider, the Lasback, and an Assault Cannon Razorback around my left side of the big building he was hiding behind, and his other two tanks around my right side. The Razorbacks are positioned directly in front of the Land Raiders. He does a number on me with his Lascannons and Multimeltas, blowing up my Heavy Bolter and Immolation Flamer Immolators and sending both the Penitent Engine and the left-flank Multimelta Immolator to one wound.
Argent Shroud 1:
I respond by moving up Celestine with Hand of the Emperor, right up the middle of the board onto the big building his tanks are clustered around, and move my Battle Sisters into the big multistory building in front of them. Then, I unload all my meltaguns, and plod them up right next to his Land Raiders. The girls who bailed out of the destroyed tanks also move forward. I fire the Exorcist at the right-flank Razorback, dealing moderate damage to it. I fire the right-flank meltagun Dominions at the Land Raider near them, and send it to 4 wounds. I use their Immolator on the Razorback, then finish it with massed fire from my Battle Sisters. On the left flank, I do 6 wounds to the other Land Raider with my Meltaguns, and a few to an Assault Cannon Razorback. In my assault phase, I charge Celestine into the Crusader and the Lasback, charge the left-side Assault Cannon Razorback with the Storm Bolter Dominions, and charge his right-side Land Raider with my Immolator. I try to charge the left-side Land Raider with the 1-wound Immolator, but get killed in overwatch. Oh well. For the entire combat phase, just about nothing of significance happens. Celestine is good, but she can't solo Land Raiders in melee.
Iron Hands 2:
He falls out of combat with his Crusader and Lasback, but leaves the 4-wound Land Raider and the Assault Cannon Razorback in melee. He fires the active Land Raider at Celestine, but isn't super successful. That's his turn.
Argent Shroud 2:
Celestine regenerates back up to full using Spirit of the Martyr, and I use Diving Guidance to blow up the Lasback. Then I blow up the full-health Land Raider with my Dominions and the Exorcist, and charge the other one with the Penitent Engine. The Penitent Engine blows it up, and it detonates, killing off a melta team, the flamer team, the Penitent Engine, and dealing 4 wounds to the Immolator that was still in melee with it. Celestine charges the Captain and the Crusader, and sends the Captain to 2 wounds, but loses a bunch of her own. The Storm Bolter squad in combat with the Razorback continue to do nothing.
Iron Hands 3:
He has nothing to do but fight in melee, because there's nowhere to fall back to. The captain kills off Celestine, but her ressurects next to the Melta-Dominions, only 9" away from where she fell.
Argent Shroud 3:
Celestine closes with the Captain, and the Meltaguns close with the Crusader, and deal some damage to it, but don't kill it. Celestine charges it and the Captain, and kills the Captain.
Iron Hands 4:
He does nothing, and fights in melee, doing a wound to Celestine with the Crusader.
Argent Shroud 4:
Celestine falls back into the big building again, and the Dominions finish off the Crusader. It blows up, and detonates, killing them, dealing heavy damage to Celestine, heavily damaging the Razorback, and killing the girls in close-combat with it. At this point, I've lost quite a bit more to his tanks exploding than I have to his shooting.
Iron Hands 5:
His last razorback empties it's assault cannon into the Exorcist in a last act of defiance, doing nothing.
Argent Shroud 5:
The Exorcist takes a chunk off the Razorback, and it's finished with massed fire from the Battle Sisters Squad. That concludes the game, as there are no Space Marine models remaining.
It felt closer than it was, because I lost so many models to those exploding tanks. Otherwise, he was basically locked in combat all game.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
18 / 3 / 6 since 6th ed. 
