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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 ClockworkZion wrote:
Voss wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
Hitting the Space Wolves home world is a big deal. That's a big name first founding chapter that has it's own supplement, not a chapter like the Mantis Warriors or the Genesis Chapter.

Except it doesn't matter if their homeworld is gone. What are they going to be, _more_ mad at Magnus?

The 'only can recruit from Fenris' thing was a weird late addition/retcon and rendered entirely moot by Primaris. So what if a tribal population on a hellworld is gone? What real impact does that have?
They'll go out and fight stuff, just like they always have before. Whatever.

So this logic means breaking Cadia was pointless and any win Chaos has is pointless unless it kills down a faction to the man.


Outside of people making fun of Cadian players, how has it changed a thing ? The imperium is more at risk, things are more dire, but don't worry we have more heroes and more hope with Primaris and all the new super tech we had waiting just in the back room ! Cadians are still the plastic faction there are so many Cadians off world it hardly matters and many other regiments use their standard gear of armor and las rifle and even training, it said as much in the Guard codex and other lore. It means effectively nothing other than a story to tell but near the same status quo. It literally can't wipe anything out without sinking and pissing off people who play those forces.So yeah, all of the defeats Chaos suffered before meant nothing, their wins now mean nothing. The imperium is screwed and saved in the same measure from the defeats and then the Primaris. I mean sucks to know, but there it is.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It isn't a blood angels discussion, that was just a side-issue that grew out of a broader discussion that started with the new High Lord re: where GW is taking the setting and peoples' feelings about it. I'm sure the thread will return more directly to SoB as soon as there's any more actual news for people to talk about.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ok back to the sister discussion.

I don't like her... Rules wise and design wise I find her fine, but I'm not going to add her to my sisters. And that's not only due to me disliking centerpiece models.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It is a pretty fugly model. The little arms below the big arms just look weird and awkward, like they are vestigial.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





She looks good and will go well with the new sister suits, which I am sure is why she was made. I don't mind center piece models they usually tend to be one of the first to get smashed anyways.

These suit sisters are going to just be one of those you love um or hate um types of units.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

yukishiro1 wrote:
It is a pretty fugly model. The little arms below the big arms just look weird and awkward, like they are vestigial.


I think it will work if they are removed and the pilots head is covered.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





I don't think the little arms are that bad, you have the leave the arms somewhere if you want a person to logically fit inside and the robot is not big enough for a full cockpit
The exposed pilot is a lot worse for me personally.

I think Infinity does this sort of design a lot better
   
Made in de
Powerful Ushbati






 Ordana wrote:
I don't think the little arms are that bad, you have the leave the arms somewhere if you want a person to logically fit inside and the robot is not big enough for a full cockpit


Isn't the answer to that to just not make a robot that's too small to accommodate the pilot?

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well, yes. But then you have something 40k already has. They had to let the little arms hang out to create something new and different to get people to open their wallets again.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






yukishiro1 wrote:
Well, yes. But then you have something 40k already has. They had to let the little arms hang out to create something new and different to get people to open their wallets again.

New and different like a Dreadknight?
Or a Penitent Engine?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's not a coincidence it's very slightly different from each of those too.

I mean if you are saying there is no reason for these units to exist I agree, you're preaching to the choir there. But the reason GW chose this particular design is because it had already done the obvious, less awkward ones.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Geifer wrote:

Isn't the answer to that to just not make a robot that's too small to accommodate the pilot?


Like the Sha's o big crisis armor, yes. But that wouldn't be selling the same price and would need a bigger box. Package matters as well - so small arms outside is a good compromise, like Infinity. Also I don't think a bigger suit would have been treated the same way in the rules - they certainly would have thought to make something more like Dreadnought rather than a unit of 3 battlesuits a bit similar to Crisis suits.

And head is exposed because in 40k, they are. Gives more character to the miniature if you can see their face. With helmets on, it's impersonnal, like Storm Troopers in Star War dieing in waves. Nothing more, nothing less : it's not about being realistic or not. Some like with the helmets on, others with the helmet off. It's good GW gives us the choice to have either.

Sure seems to piss off some people here absolutely convinced it's a crime to put the option of having a helmetless version. Heh, whatever, it's not like their opinion matters here for those who like the miniatures with bare heads.


yukishiro1 wrote:
But the reason GW chose this particular design is because it had already done the obvious, less awkward ones.


They simply reimagined the dreadknight on a smaller scale and took inspiration of what was done elsewhere for exo-armors is that all. They didn't make the same as penitent engines / mortifiers because these sisters aren't criminals sentenced to serve as crucified bodies on a walking torture engine. It has nothing to do with being "obvious" or "less awkward".

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/05/12 19:15:32


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Not really feeling the exposed pilot arms and head myself on these big suits but like 'em otherwise.

I think there was a photoshopped pic in this thread or another with the little arms deleted and something covering the head over; kinda liked that look. As far as no room for a pilot, well maybe these are horribly wounded veteran sisters as pilots who just dont have much physically left of their bodies but they want to fight on. Hardly original, but feels like it could work....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/12 19:23:39


 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sure it could work. Feel free to build your miniatures however you see it fit, they're yours once you bought them.

Can also remove the pilot entirely and say they're machines fueled by the Emperor's Holy Spirit or something. And not care about these Adeptus Mechanicus nerds saying it's their Omnimessiah not yours.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/12 19:29:45


 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Iracundus wrote:
A dark interpretation of Guilliman's return is that even his return is not sufficient to change things on the grand scale. Guilliman is running around the galaxy putting out fires, but is he really making any difference in the grand scale? Does he have an endgame beyond beating back the latest Chaos or alien incursion? Right now he is like a torch, shedding light wherever he goes, but the shadows of ignorance return whenever he leaves. Institutional inertia is a powerful thing and I could see it returning things to the old status quo as he never seems to stay still in one place long enough to enact long term reform. We see in the novels of his return examples of him shelving/delaying long term goals like revising/rationalizing the calendar system in favor of the short term goal of the next campaign.

Which is why a Sister High Lord running around on a battlefield may actually be a bad thing for Guilliman's goals because it's one less politically active support in a position to keep the inertial forces of the other Imperial institutions at bay. Sure she may not be a malleable pawn in the hands of the Ecclesiarch but I don't see her battlefield antics as really threatening the old status quo either.

Or alternatively, might be a good thing for Guilliman because that's one battlefield less he needs to worry about and a tiny bit more attention he can devote to actually important things. Sure, he would probably prefer her to be his supporter on High Lords but he can't afford that now.

Right this moment, there is probably nothing Guilliman wouldn't love more than Lion/Khan/Corax returning so he can throw Warmaster patent in their face and tell them to start yesterday so he can actually have time to do some badly needed political reforms, but since he doesn't have them, he needs to make do with mortal commanders.

Whether MIGA actually succeeds isn't the issue, it's that it's moved the story in a fundamentally different direction because for MIGA to make any sense, the Imperium has to have been great originally...and that's a big change that fundamentally reorients who the good and bad guys are. Now the Imperium isn't so much irredeemably bad as just a victim of bad stewardship; this is a more typical good guys vs bad guys story.

What you said does not follow in any way, shape or form. It might just as well be a story of good man trying to reform evil organization, and failing at it due to lack of resources and/or inertia. You know, actual grimdark story, much more so than idiotic grimdumb of past editions where everyone was twirling moustache EVUL with capital letters and had to kick a puppy or two before breakfast. Taking a look how good people might function in Imperium and what they might try to achieve is much more interesting that yet another "and then I exterminatused another planet before lunch because I was bored" snoozefest.

Also the storyline has moved forward in 40k pretty much since the beginning with about a 1:1 year rate correspondence in the 1990’s. That is what allowed for character stories and deaths like Tycho to occur. The timeline freeze in the final days of 999.M40 in the early 2000’s was actually a change from what happened before, and grew increasingly problematic as not every faction has the timeline space for retroactive insertion of material into the past.

It was also comically stupid because more and more events were being inserted into the year 999 (as it was the only one that still had space) to the tune Blood Angels needing like 80 companies worth of SM to actually be in all places they were supposed to in that single year and do all the battles they did in fluff - unless they shown up in each place with like two marines and a bored scout and these three were the ones pushing back WAAAGHs, CSM warbands and Tyranid hive fleets all on their lonesome. The whole 'it's just a setting' nonsense nearly collapsed 40K and wiser authors, like Mitchell with his Cain series progressing decade by decade without any silly cutoff limits ignored it completely.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Irbis wrote:
It might just as well be a story of good man trying to reform evil organization, and failing at it due to lack of resources and/or inertia.[/i] You know, actual grimdark story


That's not a grimdark story. That's just a typical hero narrative, but with an unhappy ending. Grimdark doesn't mean "the bad guys win," it means "this isn't a story about the good guys vs the bad guys."
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

yukishiro1 wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
It might just as well be a story of good man trying to reform evil organization, and failing at it due to lack of resources and/or inertia.[/i] You know, actual grimdark story


That's not a grimdark story. That's just a typical hero narrative, but with an unhappy ending. Grimdark doesn't mean "the bad guys win," it means "this isn't a story about the good guys vs the bad guys."

Guilliman is hardly a "good guy" he's just a less corrupt guy. I think people forget the Primarchs are war criminals on the best of days and worse if given half a justification.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





In the grim darkness of the far future, you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who hasn't committed some form of war crime.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 GaroRobe wrote:
In the grim darkness of the far future, you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who hasn't committed some form of war crime.

Very true. Point is that calling Guilliman a "good guy" is ignoring how messed up the stuff he's done has been. Like sure he doesn't kick puppies like the Inquisition, or use power for the sake of gaining more power at the detriment of everyone else, but he's not someone you'd want to watch your kids either. I mean his first response to "oh crap my dad might be dead" was "oh well, time to go build Imperium 2: Electric Boogaloo".
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




I mean his first response to "oh crap my dad might be dead" was "oh well, time to go build Imperium 2: Electric Boogaloo".

That's... a pretty standard response for someone who's a 'son' of the Emperor. Trying to keep the Empire under control (at least as much as possible) is a reasonable and rational decision when the Emperor is probably dead and a civil war is raging on.

What's he going to do, shrug and go to a month long beach party?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/13 01:35:13


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

Voss wrote:
I mean his first response to "oh crap my dad might be dead" was "oh well, time to go build Imperium 2: Electric Boogaloo".

That's... a pretty standard response for someone who's a 'son' of the Emperor. Trying to keep the Empire under control (at least as much as possible) is a reasonable and rational decision when the Emperor is probably dead and a civil war is raging on.

What's he going to do, shrug and go to a month long beach party?

He didn't try to maintain the Imperium as it was, he tried to splinter off and make his own Imperium (sans blackjack and hookers).
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 ClockworkZion wrote:
Voss wrote:
I mean his first response to "oh crap my dad might be dead" was "oh well, time to go build Imperium 2: Electric Boogaloo".

That's... a pretty standard response for someone who's a 'son' of the Emperor. Trying to keep the Empire under control (at least as much as possible) is a reasonable and rational decision when the Emperor is probably dead and a civil war is raging on.

What's he going to do, shrug and go to a month long beach party?

He didn't try to maintain the Imperium as it was, he tried to splinter off and make his own Imperium (sans blackjack and hookers).


Maybe his desire to save the Imperium now is him trying to make up for his decision back then. Ironic as it could be argued now preserving a smaller more rational realm might be the better option than trying to vainly save the entire tottering Imperium as a whole.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/13 02:16:58


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Guilliman is absolutely a good guy and it's comical to see anyone try to seriously argue otherwise. Even on the rare occasions he does bad things, it's basically always for a good purpose. He stands out like a sore thumb in 40k for a reason, which was fine as a contrast as long as he never got more than a bit-part role, but is proving very problematic now that he's the main protagonist.
   
Made in ca
Oberleutnant




Hogtown

 GaroRobe wrote:
In the grim darkness of the far future, you'll be hard-pressed to find someone who hasn't committed some form of war crime.


The story is in the telling. No one can say, in the broad strokes that matter, that Bobby's is one told to us as a story of war crimes.

It's presented as a story of struggling hope, good, and a long awaited breath of rationalism. It ain't 40k.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2021/05/13 03:07:55


 
   
Made in us
Terminator with Assault Cannon




San Jose, CA

All primarchs have committed genocide, xenocide, etc. So calling any of them good is a stretch.

   
Made in ca
Oberleutnant




Hogtown

Racerguy180 wrote:
All primarchs have committed genocide, xenocide, etc. So calling any of them good is a stretch.



Sure, as a detached analysis that's true. But it doesn't matter in terms of story and setting.

The text matters.

 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

Racerguy180 wrote:
All primarchs have committed genocide, xenocide, etc. So calling any of them good is a stretch.
Judge the primarchs by our 20th Century ethics if you want. They know the truth: In the grim dark future there is only war... an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

And primarchs have nothing to do with Adepta Sororitas rumors. Please take the discussion elsewhere.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

Speaking of Sisters, when are we expecting them? Late May before GW drops AoS 3.0?
   
Made in au
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Trying to guess the current GW release schedule is a bit tricky. We're still waiting for the admech release that was meant to be sometime last month. Not to mention Orks some time after sisters. Covid plus Evergreen has really made things chaotic yeah?
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

cody.d. wrote:
Trying to guess the current GW release schedule is a bit tricky. We're still waiting for the admech release that was meant to be sometime last month. Not to mention Orks some time after sisters. Covid plus Evergreen has really made things chaotic yeah?

I feel like the Ork box will drop but the actual Ork codex won't be until fall like they did with the Sisters.
   
 
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