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So, 54,000 words later, and really most of it has gone by the wayside. What really matters to me out of all of these updates is this:

What is the current status of the miniature production?

Pictures help, and if we'd been getting more smaller updates with a quick paragraph or two it would have been more impactful than a wall of text that basically said, "We're doing stuff but it's delayed for 'reasons'."

There's a lot of not-apologizing in this update, and they're going about it in the wrong way. They acknowledge that the customer base is becoming anxious, but don't admit they're at fault. Instead, they'd rather provide us a list of all the times Joe Sculptor took PTO for being sick. Do we really care? No. We want to know how things are progressing in the simplest of terms. The pics of the 3D prints, for example, are great, and are really the only thing I care about in this update.

I already know to expect delays at this point for pretty much everything. A precedent exists. You don't need to tell me again, and again, and again. And again.

And again.

Just tell me what you've been working on for the sculpting, and here's some progress pics, and here's a shot of something that came in from the printers. Boom. Done. Update complete in less than 200 words. Tell me about stuff you HAVE done, not stuff you would have liked to get done but didn't because blah blah blah.

You could write a novel with all of the TGG updates...no wonder they're so few and far between. I may run an exercise and condense each update to as few words as possible while still conveying the general message of each one, and see how long it takes. Then I'd ask what RH was thinking when they decided to wait 45 days between updates...it seems the only content that may have been time sensitive in this update was the pictures.

~iPaint

NB: September is their unconfirmed date of delivery for everything from this KS....a nagging feeling tells me to take that with a block of salt lick, though I remain optimistic that the end product will be worth the wait. I would have preferred not to have dealt with all of the updates and their fallout during the interim, though.

Cross posting this;

This is not, to say the least, entirely reassuring.

First, and let me blunt, you recognized that you had a communications problem. You hired a communications staffer. Then you gave him work that prevented him from communicating. That sounds more like a situation from Office Space or Dilbert then sound decision making.

Second: during the campaign an explicit promise was made that the pledge manager would be "once the sculpts are finalised[sic]"; how will this be accomplished? Will the PM contain only pictures of production minis, renders, prints? Will the manager remain open until the final wave ships?

Finally, There seems to be a bit of confusion: is September the final date for shipping EVERYTHING from this campaign, or is that the likely ship date for Wave Two?

Specifically, do you expect to ship late additions such as Werewolves, Snipers and vehicles in September?

The product being shown is, as ever, very impressive. The communication... that could use a bit of work.

For posterity, the comment where the pledge manager was mention is here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
An interesting thing to consider;

Loud'n Raging 10 minutes ago
@Luca Lacchini:
Heroines are in white metal, and we've recently added the option of getting them in spin-cast resin. White metal Heroines will be ready before spin-cast resin, except for the First Wave, where they'll be ready pretty much at the same time.
From Update 84:
The miniatures of the First Wave are currently in production. They are:
JB: Blondie, Bernadette, Mimi the Radio, Yoko, Cruz, The 5 Lulus, the Freebie Lulu, Harry the Hippo
KST: Shashenka, Tarja, Irina Vega, Volga Potemkine, Charlie the war bulldog, Natasha
IE: Drusilla (Kickstarter exclusive), Mortaria, Vera Krabbenhöft, Lady Hilda von Stroheim, Jinx
From the update above: For the Second Wave, we intend to release all the Troops together. We are currently working on their production now: the re-sculpts and technical modifications that we wanted to make are done, and the models are currently being 3D printed. Of course, there will also be several metal Heroines in Wave 2 as well.

So, from this comment (in the current update) we see that IE will receive three (3!) of their heroines in Wave One. As a point of reference, there are fourteen (14) Heroines in the IE line (15 if you include the KS exclusive that everyone gets).

Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.

The only thing in that update I liked was Hilda.


Stupid brain

 Kendachi wrote:
If I may, I'd really like to see someone rolling around in 100,000 25mm bases.

Like Scrooge McDuck.

Hehe.

Great visual.

Either I have great powers, or updates bring out Buzzsaw.

I think you raise a good point, about the Waves. If Wave 1 is those 23 minis and Wave 2 in September is *everything else*... why do 2 waves, then? I call shenanhigans on this one too.

I guess I misunderstood then. I thought they were saying that Wave 1 was the 23 minis, Wave 2 was all the troops, and Wave 3 would be 'everything else.'

 -iPaint- wrote:
So, 54,000 words later, and really most of it has gone by the wayside. What really matters to me out of all of these updates is this:

What is the current status of the miniature production?

Pictures help, and if we'd been getting more smaller updates with a quick paragraph or two it would have been more impactful than a wall of text that basically said, "We're doing stuff but it's delayed for 'reasons'."

There's a lot of not-apologizing in this update, and they're going about it in the wrong way. They acknowledge that the customer base is becoming anxious, but don't admit they're at fault. Instead, they'd rather provide us a list of all the times Joe Sculptor took PTO for being sick. Do we really care? No. We want to know how things are progressing in the simplest of terms. The pics of the 3D prints, for example, are great, and are really the only thing I care about in this update.

I already know to expect delays at this point for pretty much everything. A precedent exists. You don't need to tell me again, and again, and again. And again.

And again.

Just tell me what you've been working on for the sculpting, and here's some progress pics, and here's a shot of something that came in from the printers. Boom. Done. Update complete in less than 200 words. Tell me about stuff you HAVE done, not stuff you would have liked to get done but didn't because blah blah blah.

You could write a novel with all of the TGG updates...no wonder they're so few and far between. I may run an exercise and condense each update to as few words as possible while still conveying the general message of each one, and see how long it takes. Then I'd ask what RH was thinking when they decided to wait 45 days between updates...it seems the only content that may have been time sensitive in this update was the pictures.

~iPaint

NB: September is their unconfirmed date of delivery for everything from this KS....a nagging feeling tells me to take that with a block of salt lick, though I remain optimistic that the end product will be worth the wait. I would have preferred not to have dealt with all of the updates and their fallout during the interim, though.

Sooo muuuuch thiiissss. They talk about how much they talk about talking about things as if that's a good thing, it is not. The point of an update is to convey information that the backers want to know, RH updates read like the wandering, waffling diary of a teenage girl, prattling on endlessly about the boring minutiae of their day, everything that's wrong with their lives, and sprinkled liberally with passive-aggressive bitching.

Perhaps most annoying of all though, is the news that most of the IE heroine sculpts won't see wave 1. Oh, what's that, the models which best fit into the aesthetic of 40K and would thus have the biggest potential pool of customers on eBay won't be in the first wave? Goody, that's my plan to cash out asap down the pisser then.

*sigh* I suppose I'd better contact my local dropship to see if they're still involved in the project, I mean for feth's sake the owner could be dead by now RH have taken so long.

I admit, I'm not in on this kickstarter.

But, even though I am not, that comment they made about "look how many words in our updates" is disgusting.

I can imagine, if I was still in school, trying to pull that on a term paper. I'd expect a slap. Right to the face.

Like, Stephen King's The Stand, now with 1200 extra pages even the editor didn't want to read.

Glad you guys got an update though. All the best.

I had an employee at our store who was French. She would literally lose it every time finals came around, because she couldn't, for the life of her, wade her way out of an intro to any essay she had to write. She kept asking me to help her revise and it would usually involve me axing great swathes of text with a red pen.

So it's a cultural thing is what you're saying?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Either I have great powers, or updates bring out Buzzsaw.

I think you raise a good point, about the Waves. If Wave 1 is those 23 minis and Wave 2 in September is *everything else*... why do 2 waves, then? I call shenanhigans on this one too.

Well...


On a serious note, RH continues to say things that simply make one go "Whaaaaat?";

Luckily, we've been so far blessed with wonderful and dependable partners in the production process, who are working on this project pretty much as if it were their own!
And being quite creative along the way, too. We are not allowed to share the inside details with you because they've created some quite innovative stuff for us, but at this point in time, we can say that we are in very good hands!

Seriously? RH's suppliers have them under the cone of silence?

This is exactly the problem I alluded to above: at this point in time, ti's difficult to take anything said at face value. For example, when they say "All miniatures are either finished or in an advanced stage, except for 3 freebies that have not yet been started, but they are pretty simple sculpts." An "advanced stage" would be a whole lot more reassuring if this wasn't the campaign that spawned the 80% meme.

So they need to spend all their time acting as a buffer between their Social Media Hire and the public?

Here is file photo of the Raging Heroes team:




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and in a new update, Raging Heroes ordered pizza.

Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.

It's a bit disappointing though that the first wave, after such a long wait, is so small.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.

I feel the same way about Wolfenstein, the mini I'm in for, was also previewed months in advance, but not present. Yaaaaay.

 BrookM wrote:
Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.

Not to be argumentative, but what would be the point? Is there an actual business reason for such a decision, or is the assumption that they're doing it out of nothing but spite? (I'm not a 'business guy' so I'm not going to pretend like there might not be something I've missed...) Poor planning seems much more plausible than vindictiveness, at least to me.

Of course, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" comes to mind, more than once, with this KS. Maybe replace stupidity with inexperience.

 BrookM wrote:
Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.

It's a bit disappointing though that the first wave, after such a long wait, is so small.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.

I feel the same way about Wolfenstein, the mini I'm in for, was also previewed months in advance, but not present. Yaaaaay.

When I asked about nepharaya the response was that they wanted to rework it but hadn't even reopened the files yet.

 Yodhrin wrote:
How much do you want to bet that, if they ever actually get to such a point, the rulebook for their game will contain a really passive-aggressive bit of fiction aimed at this thread?

That would be awesome. I'd be sure to pick it up if that were to happen.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.

It's a bit disappointing though that the first wave, after such a long wait, is so small.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.

I feel the same way about Wolfenstein, the mini I'm in for, was also previewed months in advance, but not present. Yaaaaay.

When I asked about nepharaya the response was that they wanted to rework it but hadn't even reopened the files yet.

You have got to be fething kidding me. These total galumphs are getting beyond parody now.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.

It's a bit disappointing though that the first wave, after such a long wait, is so small.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Oddly, this means that the large IE figure (Nepharya) who is shown in renders in the initial announcement video will not be available. That's... uh... dunno.

I feel the same way about Wolfenstein, the mini I'm in for, was also previewed months in advance, but not present. Yaaaaay.

When I asked about nepharaya the response was that they wanted to rework it but hadn't even reopened the files yet.

I hope they don't 'rework' it too much, that mini was what pulled me in to this mess in the first place.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Maybe reason for this "meh" first wave is because a lot of us were outright stating that we were cashing out as soon as minis become available? Granted, grasping at nothing here, but that's what comes to my mind.

Not to be argumentative, but what would be the point? Is there an actual business reason for such a decision, or is the assumption that they're doing it out of nothing but spite? (I'm not a 'business guy' so I'm not going to pretend like there might not be something I've missed...) Poor planning seems much more plausible than vindictiveness, at least to me.

You might not be a "business guy", but your instincts serve you right. If you don't bring product to market, you're not going to increase your cashflow. Even if they were super-smart about the funds, there is no reason for them not to start selling as many minis as fast as possible (once the artsy bunch are convinced they have the best minis evah, that is) in order to turn, say, a profit.

My guess is that they already spent any possible profit from this KS, which is part of why it is taking so long. It takes a good bit of discipline to finish a job up in a timely manner when you get paid up front, and from the looks of thing that isn't something they are really into.
Well, work discipline at least.
At this point, the carrot has been eaten, and the stick is lodged firmly somewhere out of reach, so the actual grind of getting things done is going to be slow going. The earlier post about the next KS they do being mainly to pay staff while they finishing getting this out the door probably isn't too far off the mark either.

Scary thought right there.

 -iPaint- wrote:
So, 54,000 words later, and really most of it has gone by the wayside. What really matters to me out of all of these updates is this: (snip)

All of this.

I started reading, saw the kind of non-information/non-apology/non-details the doc was filled with, started skimming, then just looked at the pictures. Pictures look pretty cool. Honestly, an email that said: "Still working on things, sorry for the delays, here's a few shots of the repros we're getting back!"

I'd be happy.

 Wehrkind wrote:
My guess is that they already spent any possible profit from this KS, which is part of why it is taking so long. It takes a good bit of discipline to finish a job up in a timely manner when you get paid up front, and from the looks of thing that isn't something they are really into.
Well, work discipline at least.
At this point, the carrot has been eaten, and the stick is lodged firmly somewhere out of reach, so the actual grind of getting things done is going to be slow going. The earlier post about the next KS they do being mainly to pay staff while they finishing getting this out the door probably isn't too far off the mark either.

This has the ring of truth about it...

 Alpharius wrote:

Spoiler:

 Wehrkind wrote:
My guess is that they already spent any possible profit from this KS, which is part of why it is taking so long. It takes a good bit of discipline to finish a job up in a timely manner when you get paid up front, and from the looks of thing that isn't something they are really into.
Well, work discipline at least.
At this point, the carrot has been eaten, and the stick is lodged firmly somewhere out of reach, so the actual grind of getting things done is going to be slow going. The earlier post about the next KS they do being mainly to pay staff while they finishing getting this out the door probably isn't too far off the mark either.

This has the ring of truth about it...

Without really wanting to defend them, it has the ring of "what most of us assume" in it, it may be true, it may not be.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

Spoiler:

 Wehrkind wrote:
My guess is that they already spent any possible profit from this KS, which is part of why it is taking so long. It takes a good bit of discipline to finish a job up in a timely manner when you get paid up front, and from the looks of thing that isn't something they are really into.
Well, work discipline at least.
At this point, the carrot has been eaten, and the stick is lodged firmly somewhere out of reach, so the actual grind of getting things done is going to be slow going. The earlier post about the next KS they do being mainly to pay staff while they finishing getting this out the door probably isn't too far off the mark either.

This has the ring of truth about it...

Without really wanting to defend them, it has the ring of "what most of us assume" in it, it may be true, it may not be.

Search your feelings; you know it to be true!

You are right, we don't really know of course. I think there are pretty likely options though, and most of us who have worked in businesses etc. have been taught by experience that "Lots of words about what I wanted to do, and very little about what I did" is cant for "I have been futzing around a good bit instead of getting cracking on getting the important things done."
For instance, as others have pointed out, if you are super busy and getting lots done and have to write an update, you snap a bunch of pictures with your phone and write "Hey, not much time, but here's what I have been doing!" You don't write 10,000 words on what you wanted to do but couldn't get to because of random things. That is usually what people do when they have been procrastinating and don't want to admit it. (I know from personal experience on both sides of that coin! )

This is certainly not a problem unique to TGG; I think it is endemic with KickStarters in general when people don't face just raising money but actually getting the money to go to things they need. In other words, if the models were done and just needed sent to be cast it won't be an issue, but when you are going through the whole process and basically getting paid long in advance of the work, things are going to slow down.

Right.

I didn't say it was 100% spot on - just that it is a likely scenario.

As are many other things, I suppose.

1) Alien abduction, followed by replacement by pod people. Pod people are then unable to follow proprietary work flow. Project is delayed.

2) Alien abduction, followed by replacement by pod people. Pod people are able to follow proprietary work flow.Unfortunately, Pod People are unable to follow proprietary work flow from their blessed, wonderful and dependable partners in the production process. Project is delayed.

3) Hookers and blow.

Or, you know, anything else!

Or they scrapped and redid the range so many times now that well, finite amount of cash and all that..

Ah, the reported "Duke Nukem Forever" approach? Where they spend untold hours redoing work because a new engine came out or someone got a brilliant idea that required scrapping entire levels and starting from scratch?

Gods, I remember the first Duke Nukem. Then DN3d... then driving, sex, alcohol, school, work, sex, that time in the well... then DN Forever. I am still surprised that ever happened.