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Posted By jmurph on 11/30/2006 8:17 AM
Is it just me, or does the Empire seem awfully tech now, what with rocket launchers, heavy bolters errr... repeating guns, tanks, mechanical horses (ICs on bikes?) etc? I thought alot of that was more reserved for the Chaos Dwarves. What the heck will they have? Plasma? Assault Cannons?

 

Well, considering that chaos dwarves only got rules in ravaging hordes, I would say its pretty good odds that they won't be getting any rules beyond those for this edition.

They had rocket launching platforms in the 1300's.


ORLY? Yes, I seem to recall the Battle of Hastings ushered in a new wave of technology with the Saxons employing shaped charges to defeat the armored vehicles of their extra terrestrial foes. Of course, by the 14th century, missile turrets were common and laser technology was quickly eclipsing the antiquated explosive projectile weapons of the Dark Ages.

Actually, they may have had some sort of propelled device, but considering that the crossbow was considered hi-tech.... They certainly didn't have widespread, meaningful use. But, it doesn't really matter- this is a make believe game of elves and faeries fighting monsters and men with clockwork missles, apparently. So they can pretty much do whatever they want. And do. Including sell us toy soldiers for obscene prices!

And we will buy them, yes we will...

Posted By Waaagh_Gonads on 12/01/2006 3:04 AM
The great thing about the list is that I can see so much variety in the list, there are no real 'must haves' and no real duds, I'd be perfectly happy making a list just with core and characters, something I haven't wanted to do since Hordes of Chaos...

<3 for list veriety -- I'm working on an Orc and Goblin army only because they got crap loads of troop options in their old book (need to get new one); hope to see some more varied Empire armies in the next!

OH!  We still have detachments, right?  Or do we also have some new special rules of awesome?

*excited about Army Book*  

Posted By jmurph on 12/01/2006 7:33 AM
They had rocket launching platforms in the 1300's.


ORLY? Yes, I seem to recall the Battle of Hastings ushered in a new wave of technology with the Saxons employing shaped charges to defeat the armored vehicles of their extra terrestrial foes. Of course, by the 14th century, missile turrets were common and laser technology was quickly eclipsing the antiquated explosive projectile weapons of the Dark Ages.

Actually, they may have had some sort of propelled device, but considering that the crossbow was considered hi-tech.... They certainly didn't have widespread, meaningful use. But, it doesn't really matter- this is a make believe game of elves and faeries fighting monsters and men with clockwork missles, apparently. So they can pretty much do whatever they want. And do. Including sell us toy soldiers for obscene prices!

[reporter's voice]This just in- scientists have confirmed that in the 1300's civilizations existed outside of Europe.  No news on whether they could've been more technologically advanced then the Europeans, although that's just silly anyway!  Back to you Dianne[/reporter's voice]

Yeah, China is like the Simpsons of world civilizations; every thing you think is original, they did a thousand years ago. Paper? China did it. Gunpowder? China did it. Tanks with non-stick treads? Yep, China did it.

Detchments are still there and at a quick look they keep the rules pretty much the same (I didn't have the old book to compare directly at the time).

Detatchments are fntastic in 7th ed with other units ignoring their panic, you can flee with no problems to set up charges, and your main units never run away thanks to the detachments. I played against empire 3 times now under 7th ed, all had heaps of state troops and detchments, I won all 3 games with my VC but it was much harder than under 6th ed, and came down to me summoning troops to their rear.

From memory it was d3 impact hits from the clockwork horse, but I didn't really look to in depth t it so it may have more rules.


Also there is a 2 page spread with colour schemes for the big towns and the states with 3 or so different troops for each region to get a good idea of how to do your uniforms (Yellow seems to heve been replaced by bubonic brown).

Thats about all I've got at the moment, I won't get to look at the book again for about a week.

Yes! And the Empire is clearly predicated and designed on those most mysterious machinegun toting, tank driving, rocket launching Chinese Warriors of the Thirteenth Century who were so well known for fielding batteries of black powder cannonry aside masses repeating rifles, and gatling gun and grenade launcher armed horseback hordes, some with robotic mounts! How could I forget! Which history book are you reading out of again Drake? :p

Oh yeah, this is SOOO STEAM PUNK! I wonder if my Vampires are going to get flying steam-powered caskets, uzi weilding zombies (that are as hazardous to themselves as they are to the enemy), and robotic steam gaurdians of the grave? I mean, Fantasy = Steam Punk now, right? Am I rite? Next, it's Steam Elves! Woo, sounds seksi, don't it? Perhaps they'll have massive flying steam dragons that belch awesomeness. This is the progression, right?

Seriously, I don't mind a few black powder elements in various armies. A few. But the Empire book takes it and expands it in typical GW fashion into something completely and totally over the top to the point where it breaks peoples ability to suspend disbelief that it's a fantasy game (and thereby destroy's ones ability to enjoy said game). If I wanted steampunk sci-fantasy, I'd play Warmachine or similar. Unfortunately, moderation is something GW is painfully unaware of, Over The Top is the word of the day. MORE SKULLZZZ!!!!! MOAR SPIKEZZZ!! SO GOTH IT HURTZZ!! ARGH!!

Heheh... steam elves... that sounds dirty....

Nyarlathotep, you ignorant slut!

Suspend disbelief? In a fantasy game? So it's perfectly alright for my opponent can have an army led by a frog that is actually an alien hybrid that casts spells and has an army of bipedal lizards, but my army that is led by an ordinary man, albeit a man armed with a magic sword who worships a barbarian who rescued a dwarf and in doing so, became a god, who commands a bunch of ordinary guys, one of whom lost his wife and daughter to goat men who are in congress with daemons, and a Wizard who went to a school that was founded by one of the greatest spellcasters of all time, who just so happens to be an elf, that's kosher, but add a clockwork horse, or gatling muskets? No, that's over the frigging line!

Steampunk is an overused term that I wish would go out of use. Much like cyberpunk, it is kind of an anachronism that while sounding cool at the time, has now become lame.

That being said, I think being able to take uzi wielding zombies would get me to buy sixty more skeletons.

Posted By Jester on 12/01/2006 9:30 PM
Nyarlathotep, you ignorant slut!

Suspend disbelief? In a fantasy game? So it's perfectly alright for my opponent can have an army led by a frog that is actually an alien hybrid that casts spells and has an army of bipedal lizards, but my army that is led by an ordinary man, albeit a man armed with a magic sword who worships a barbarian who rescued a dwarf and in doing so, became a god, who commands a bunch of ordinary guys, one of whom lost his wife and daughter to goat men who are in congress with daemons, and a Wizard who went to a school that was founded by one of the greatest spellcasters of all time, who just so happens to be an elf, that's kosher, but add a clockwork horse, or gatling muskets? No, that's over the frigging line!

Yes?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket#Origins_of_rocketry

i are winr?

Posted By Infantryman on 12/01/2006 11:10 PM

i are winr?

No.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket#Origins_of_rocketry

Posted By bigchris1313 on 12/01/2006 10:54 PM

Posted By Jester on 12/01/2006 9:30 PM
Nyarlathotep, you ignorant slut!

Suspend disbelief? In a fantasy game? So it's perfectly alright for my opponent can have an army led by a frog that is actually an alien hybrid that casts spells and has an army of bipedal lizards, but my army that is led by an ordinary man, albeit a man armed with a magic sword who worships a barbarian who rescued a dwarf and in doing so, became a god, who commands a bunch of ordinary guys, one of whom lost his wife and daughter to goat men who are in congress with daemons, and a Wizard who went to a school that was founded by one of the greatest spellcasters of all time, who just so happens to be an elf, that's kosher, but add a clockwork horse, or gatling muskets? No, that's over the frigging line!

Yes?

Correct! It's not *just* the clockwork horse and gatling muskets, but them and the steam tank and the handguns and the grenade launchers and the miniguns and the cannonry and the mortars and the rocket launchers and so on so forth. I want to play a fantasy game, not English Civil War with American Civil War tech.

Oh, and I'm fully aware of where rockets and such originated, but they were rare in China and by no means is the Empire based on Han Dynasty Chinese (whom still made proficient use of sword, bow and pole arm).

I also liked the Empire better when they were more English Civil War and less OTT steampunk (yeah I said it.)

They were one of the few armies in Fantasy that allowed to you to make a somewhat realistic medieval army.

Maybe you can still do that?  Regardless, I don't like the mini-gun cavalry or the robo-horse.

To be honest, I wouldn't like the robo-horse even if it was in 40k and not Fantasy.

Posted By Hordini on 12/02/2006 6:09 AM
 less OTT steampunk (yeah I said it.)

Too late- I already called it steampunk  

It's been too late for awhile now, people just weren't aware of it. Multi shot guns have been around for some time in the Empire army, and I still have my outriders from the previous (2 army books ago?) as proof. Steam tank has been around for quite some time. If you don't like it, don't buy it or play it. Nuff said.

Myself, I like it. Just a few more additions to an interesting and unique army.

Posted By bigchris1313 on 12/01/2006 11:23 PM

Posted By Infantryman on 12/01/2006 11:10 PM

i are winr?

No.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket#Origins_of_rocketry

Wai?  ulai2mi?

But, while I don't like Robohorse, I DO like the rockets, and I'm ok with steam tank cus of our real life DiVinchi...  

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 12/02/2006 1:25 AM

Posted By bigchris1313 on 12/01/2006 10:54 PM

Posted By Jester on 12/01/2006 9:30 PM
Nyarlathotep, you ignorant slut!

Suspend disbelief? In a fantasy game? So it's perfectly alright for my opponent can have an army led by a frog that is actually an alien hybrid that casts spells and has an army of bipedal lizards, but my army that is led by an ordinary man, albeit a man armed with a magic sword who worships a barbarian who rescued a dwarf and in doing so, became a god, who commands a bunch of ordinary guys, one of whom lost his wife and daughter to goat men who are in congress with daemons, and a Wizard who went to a school that was founded by one of the greatest spellcasters of all time, who just so happens to be an elf, that's kosher, but add a clockwork horse, or gatling muskets? No, that's over the frigging line!

Yes?

Correct! It's not *just* the clockwork horse and gatling muskets, but them and the steam tank and the handguns and the grenade launchers and the miniguns and the cannonry and the mortars and the rocket launchers and so on so forth. I want to play a fantasy game, not English Civil War with American Civil War tech.

You just don't want to admit that a human can invent a bomb, repeating cannon, or man-portable gatling gun, Nyarly.

You're a racist, and possibly a jacobin.

I had always thought the point behind Empire was, as Jester said, three different ideas (all misspellings intentional).

1. the holy Roman Empire as it might have been had the inquisition and black plague come simultaneously: intolerant, hostile, paranoid, zealous.

2. A renaissance Europe of High Magick, where the various minor royals employ students (and sometimes teachers) of the great schools of Arcane Arts to aid them at court and the battlefield alike.

3. Da Vinci's wonderous world! Fantastik machines to help the Empire of man on the battlefield against the various hordes surrounding the realm. NOT steampunk, but using Leonardo's bizarre ideas an inventions if they had been applied, including flying men, multi-shot cannon, and massive armored 'landships'.

The robo-horse is definitely over the top and could be a pandering to those have left GW for PP and Rackham; certainly it's not a step in the right direction. I always thought Empire was a good balance of all of those elements, with the possiblity of 'theming out' in one direction (army of faith, army of magic, army of machines), but your best bet was an army that combined all of those elements in moderation with state troops, knights, etc.

Whatever, they'll just be fodder for my dasterdly Warmachine and No Quarter conversions anyway...assuming I even buy any.

The only promising thing about the robo-horse is that you'll likely never see one on the battlefield because it and engineers are still absolutely horrid hero choices.

Gogo GW!

Isn't Leonardo Tilean?

Posted By The Crawling Chaos on 12/03/2006 11:36 AM
Isn't Leonardo Tilean?

Perhaps, but there was a 'Leonardo' engineer that came with the old (4th-5th ed.) Volley Gun. Looked like him and even said 'Leonardo' on his tab!

Now, if they would trade in the mounts for balloons, we'd be getting somewhere!

I LIKE that baloon idea...maybe have him help modify the accuracy roll for cannons/mortars or something...(spotter)

O_O that's accually cool...

What syr said. Always thought they had some of the best 16th-c. figures available if you didn't want to spend money on the Foundry Renaissance line (hint hint).
I liked that old Leonardo. Made a little diorama of a volley gun all blown up, big scorch mark on the base, grunt with linstock outstretched all black down one side, real big eyes showing in soot-black face, Leo off to one side, and on clipboard, "minor problem with ignition".
Yeah, spotters for the mortar... an indirect-fire weapon that has to have line of sight (sigh). Balloons would be great until the furies/harpys/Pegasus Knights/flying unit of your choice attacks the gasbag and sends him plummeting to his death.In turn 2.
I see Engineers on clockwerke horse with Van Horstman's Speculum charging into contact with enemy Heroes, so often that any Engineer on clockwerke horse is automatically assumed to have V.H. Spec.  Much the same way any goblin hero on a wolf all by himself is assumed to have the Brimstone Bauble.  "A goblin hero just charged my general? Of course he is a suicide bomber!  Champion! Job for you!"

Posted By fellblade on 12/03/2006 3:50 PM.
Yeah, spotters for the mortar... an indirect-fire weapon that has to have line of sight (sigh). Balloons would be great until the furies/harpys/Pegasus Knights/flying unit of your choice attacks the gasbag and sends him plummeting to his death.In turn 2.

Give 'em gunz!

Plague Zombie Grenade Launchers? That would be cool, and historically accurate!

Posted By Jester on 12/03/2006 5:51 PM
Plague Zombie Grenade Launchers? That would be cool, and historically accurate!

Then GW could release Empire and Bretonnian archers without pants, to represent troops with dysentery!  Yes!


Sounds like a couple of great releases for Warhammer Siege.

Malfred alone would probably buy enough pant-less archers to replace GW's financial "LotR bubble."


Cha-ching! $$$


 

"Not that arrow, Manfred!"

Careful boys- the other mods will gang close this in a blink of the eye