GD Atlanta Notes (from Warseer)

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**Asmodai**

Posted By Toreador on 04/30/2007 12:01 PM
Myself, I would like to see hits on fast vehicles work the same as hull down. 1-3 pen, 4-6 glance. That is pretty much instant eldar falcon balance.

That's a pretty good suggestion.

Anyway, I would expect 6th edition to come out before some of the less popular Codexes get done at the current rate of 2/year. Sisters and Necrons might need to wait till 7th. On the plus side, the game should be balanced by then.

**Ozymandias**

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 04/30/2007 1:26 PM

Posted By Ozymandias on 04/30/2007 11:31 AM
Nyarly: It would only be the apocalypse if you said something positive about GW.

Then perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension as I have said plenty positive about GW in the past when they do something right.

You know, for someone who regularly attacks other posters, you sure can't take criticism well. BTW, a *wink* means its lighthearted or in jest.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**Zubbiefish**

Wait, GW did something right?
Oh you mean the Dark Angels.
Carry on.

**H.B.M.C.**

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 04/30/2007 1:26 PM

I took a hiatus mid-way through 2nd ed for a mixture of reasons, mostly social, and was shocked when I returned a few years later after 3rd ed had been out for a couple years. But by the late 90's, Chambers & Co. had reintroduced a lot of the fluffy goodness and enough granularity to the ruleset to make it at least enjoyable as a simple beer & pretzel game. But the lack of modifiers (both armor saves and to hit), standardized movement, and excessively dumbed down vehicle rules killed it for all the adult gamers. I still love the 40k Universe with it's broad, encompassing ridiculously dystopian sci-fi imagery and I continue to model, but damn do I despise the current state of the rules.

This is the exact same thing that I did. I played 40K from just before 2nd Ed came out, and then eventually took a break from it for a number of years, only coming back into it after I finished school when a whole bunch of my friends took it up. I had been aware of the transition from 2nd to 3rd, and the simplification was very difficult, especially of the vehicle rules. I had started playing 40K for the tanks - now the tanks were a joke.

So we muddled through third and all its problems, and then gave up after 4th came out and wrote our own rules, including expansive vehicle rules to make them more interesting.

BYE

**nyarlathotep667**

Posted By Ozymandias on 04/30/2007 1:46 PM

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 04/30/2007 1:26 PM

Posted By Ozymandias on 04/30/2007 11:31 AM
Nyarly: It would only be the apocalypse if you said something positive about GW.

Then perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension as I have said plenty positive about GW in the past when they do something right.

You know, for someone who regularly attacks other posters, you sure can't take criticism well. BTW, a *wink* means its lighthearted or in jest.

Oh yeah, I attack other posters CONSTANTLY. Why, just this morning I attacked Malfred with my tentacles, though I think he liked it (he giggled a lot). Gorsh, just look at my posting history and that's all it is, an unending litany of assaults on poor hapless GW Fanbois Like how I get called out in a thread I hadn't even posted in. But that's my fault, right? Cuz thats all I do attack and complain! Hurr! Thanx for showing me the lite, I now love Gee Dubya and everything they do is so totally awesome and it's such a bummer here cuz all you peeple spew and hate and can't see why Dark Angels aren't the kewlest mos fluffy balanced codex of awesomness evar!!!!!1!!!one!!!!

*nudge, nudge* Right?

**KhaosBob**

If you people hate GW so much then quit buying their products. Get out of my game and go play WOW or whatever. You're a bunch of OLD LADIES!!!

**Asmodai**

Posted By KhaosBob on 04/30/2007 2:56 PM
If you people hate GW so much then quit buying their products. Get out of my game and go play WOW or whatever. You're a bunch of OLD LADIES!!!

1) If you hate Dakka so much, then stop posting here.
2) It's my game. You don't deserve to play it. You certainly don't deserve to have an opinion about it.
3) WoW is boring. Replying to stupid posts on Dakka is much more entertaining.
4) I doubt anyone who has posted in this thread is female.

**Hellfury**

Posted By dienekes96 on 04/30/2007 12:29 PM
4 Codex books? We're going to get TWO (the second will be Chaos, a year after the Eldar). With MAYBE the Ork Army Box in late December. but probably not until the DA slot next year.

With this release schedule, 5th edition will be out well before some of the Codicies.

Agreed.

But then again, people count the white dwarf BA as a "release" as well....

I am not sure where Toreador is getting 4 releases from. Its all conjecture, as GW is tight lipped about what they release. But summer is very rapidly approaching. We still have no solid news of what WILL be released next, other than heresay. Chaos, Apocalypse, etc....all heresay. Even orks are just a fanciful dream at this point.

GW even seems to think it a good idea to deny rumours of the BA WD release, even though it can only affect their sales in a positive manner (evidentally, there are no new models released for this, with the exception of a rumoured IC or two)

@ Asmodai.
Dont feed trolls who add nothing to the discussion. Et alia.

**deitpike**

Posted By KhaosBob on 04/30/2007 2:56 PM
If you people hate GW so much then quit buying their products. Get out of my game and go play WOW or whatever. You're a bunch of OLD LADIES!!!

so thats why my boobs are down around my knees....

**Crimson Devil**

Posted By KhaosBob on 04/30/2007 2:56 PM
If you people hate GW so much then quit buying their products. Get out of my game and go play WOW or whatever. You're a bunch of OLD LADIES!!!

I can see that with wit of this caliber your time on Dakka will be long and distinguished.

**KhaosBob**

Posted By Asmodai on 04/30/2007 2:58 PM

Posted By KhaosBob on 04/30/2007 2:56 PM
If you people hate GW so much then quit buying their products. Get out of my game and go play WOW or whatever. You're a bunch of OLD LADIES!!!
1) If you hate Dakka so much, then stop posting here.
2) It's my game. You don't deserve to play it. You certainly don't deserve to have an opinion about it.
3) WoW is boring. Replying to stupid posts on Dakka is much more entertaining.
4) I doubt anyone who has posted in this thread is female.

1) I don't hate Dakka. I just get sick of al the crying about GW.

2) If it is YOUR game then shut up and just play it. You don't know me, you don't know what I deserve. I pay my money and I play the game, I most definitely deserve an opinion.

3) Play whatever you want, It's your life (or lack there of)!

4) My mistake, I assumed from all of the complaining that you were a girl.

**davidson**

I'm trying to think of a coment of how victims of a tragedy should quit crying about what happened... but I can't think of one with out offending them greatly so...

When people are sick of being SHAT ON by GW after putting lots of money into the game, they have a right to complain. Alot of people love the game, and are sick of tired of being walked on over and over again. GW doesn't do anything to address or fix the issue but rather just keeps loosing money, raising prices and ignoring all the mistakes they've made. If GW was any other type of company than a gaming company there would have been several class action lawsuits by now.

Just think how things would be if GW was say.... a car manufacturer... "Well in our 2007 Land Speeder model it was doing too well so we put in crapper parts... and we raised the price! Have fun driving with square wheels"

You don't deserve to put down other peope's comments because you write like a 10 year old on wow. BTW, nice way to insult all the ladies out there. Maybe you'll grow out of that "phase" when you don't think all the girls have chooties.

**Zubbiefish**

davidson that's too reasonable for this thread.
Considder yourself warned.
Snoogins.

**davidson**

Oh my bad sorry... exuse me while I go rebuy most of my codexs because they did stealth reprints with drastic rule changes, but refuse to put out FAQ's for them. Oh at 25 dollars a pop now too.

Oh, I think I'll pick up a White Dwarf too, because the writers of the 4th edition Tyranid Codex are playing nids vs marines in a battle report! Yea they "Took Vennom cannons so they could penetrate the space marine land speeders because they are open-topped"

**Ozymandias**

My post was a light-hearted response to your post about Toreador.

My intention was not to bait you or get in a fight. Please go back and look at the first post before you blow up at me.

Now that we are completely de-railing this thread, I'll get back on-topic by saying I'm glad to see that Chaos will be in 2 codexes. What are your thoughts on that?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**Toreador**

From what I gather so far, and that is if the Ork army box makes a release at Christmas time.

Dark Angels - out
Blood Angels (in a WD, but rules none the less) - summer
Chaos - (August- Septemberish)
Orks - Xmas

We know pretty much for sure that BA and Chaos will be out this year. Orks is on the cusp.

**KhaosBob**

Posted By davidson on 04/30/2007 4:04 PM
I'm trying to think of a coment of how victims of a tragedy should quit crying about what happened... but I can't think of one with out offending them greatly so...

When people are sick of being SHAT ON by GW after putting lots of money into the game, they have a right to complain. Alot of people love the game, and are sick of tired of being walked on over and over again. GW doesn't do anything to address or fix the issue but rather just keeps loosing money, raising prices and ignoring all the mistakes they've made. If GW was any other type of company than a gaming company there would have been several class action lawsuits by now.

Just think how things would be if GW was say.... a car manufacturer... "Well in our 2007 Land Speeder model it was doing too well so we put in crapper parts... and we raised the price! Have fun driving with square wheels"

You don't deserve to put down other peope's comments because you write like a 10 year old on wow. BTW, nice way to insult all the ladies out there. Maybe you'll grow out of that "phase" when you don't think all the girls have chooties.

Like I said before, If you don't like being SHAT ON then sell your models and find another hobbie. If GW is a bunch of fools then quit following them. "Who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?" -Obi-Wan Kenobi

Class action suit?!!! Come on now.

**Asmodai**

Posted By Ozymandias on 04/30/2007 4:18 PM
Now that we are completely de-railing this thread, I'll get back on-topic by saying I'm glad to see that Chaos will be in 2 codexes. What are your thoughts on that?

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Well, it really depends on execution. It would be nice to have the Lost and the Damned rules conveniently placed into a Codex though.

Chaos is pretty big, so it's pretty reasonable to split it up. It might help make up for the blandness of getting rid of the cult armies and different demons.

Chaos in Fantasy is 3-4 armies, and all but one or two of them are viable (depending whether you consider the Storm of Chaos demon list a separate army). It works pretty well there - although the rules for Chaos Dwarves are getting a little dated.

That points to the biggest potential problem. The GW release schedule is awfully slow as of late. Splitting Chaos and Marines into more and more books means that it takes longer and longer for anything else to come out. Orks, Dark Eldar, Necrons come to mind as armies that could use a revision. If the Renegades book pushes them back further, it's not really a win for existing players.

In theory though, I definitely think that there's enough material to warrant a 2 book release for Chaos.

**davidson**

KhaosBob, Luckly I bought most of my models when a box was 20 dollars or less each so I don't have to buy much these days.
As for the lawsuit... I guess you where not around when GW started to price fix their products in america. A store in Milwaukee pretty much shut down when GW refused to sell to them because it sold gw stuff at 25% off all the time. My local place had to stop selling at a 15% discount and bring it down to a 10%.

There are those reasons and many other near illegal/frowned upon business practices that GW has done.

I'm done sorry for taking this off topic. I hope 40k orcs come out for Christmas... it would be a nice gift to every 40k player.

**Ozymandias**

I've always wanted to start a LatD army, but the threat of being forever unofficial and unsupported has always turned me off. I plan on picking up IA 5 this summer at GDLA, I guess one could always use the Traitor rules from that list.

Its my dream to make a Traitor gaurd and a DKoK army and then be able to re-create the battles in the book. It'll happen once I win the lottery.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**Ozymandias**

Posted By davidson on 04/30/2007 4:41 PM
KhaosBob, Luckly I bought most of my models when a box was 20 dollars or less each so I don't have to buy much these days.
As for the lawsuit... I guess you where not around when GW started to price fix their products in america. A store in Milwaukee pretty much shut down when GW refused to sell to them because it sold gw stuff at 25% off all the time. My local place had to stop selling at a 15% discount and bring it down to a 10%.

There are those reasons and many other near illegal/frowned upon business practices that GW has done.

I'm done sorry for taking this off topic. I hope 40k orcs come out for Christmas... it would be a nice gift to every 40k player.

How is that near-illegal? A brand can dictate a MAP pricing policy and they can refuse to open an account or sell to a discounter. That's just a strict price-control policy and it's good business sense (maybe not so good for us consumers, but good for the company). There is nothing illegal about it.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**Da Boss**

Posted By KhaosBob on 04/30/2007 4:27 PM

Posted By davidson on 04/30/2007 4:04 PM
I'm trying to think of a coment of how victims of a tragedy should quit crying about what happened... but I can't think of one with out offending them greatly so...

When people are sick of being SHAT ON by GW after putting lots of money into the game, they have a right to complain. Alot of people love the game, and are sick of tired of being walked on over and over again. GW doesn't do anything to address or fix the issue but rather just keeps loosing money, raising prices and ignoring all the mistakes they've made. If GW was any other type of company than a gaming company there would have been several class action lawsuits by now.

Just think how things would be if GW was say.... a car manufacturer... "Well in our 2007 Land Speeder model it was doing too well so we put in crapper parts... and we raised the price! Have fun driving with square wheels"

You don't deserve to put down other peope's comments because you write like a 10 year old on wow. BTW, nice way to insult all the ladies out there. Maybe you'll grow out of that "phase" when you don't think all the girls have chooties.

Like I said before, If you don't like being SHAT ON then sell your models and find another hobbie. If GW is a bunch of fools then quit following them. "Who's the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?" -Obi-Wan Kenobi

Class action suit?!!! Come on now.

Wow that's really intelligent.
I can't wait for that guy who tell us to go play golf to chime in.
(Or did he already? It's all a paradoxial blur of people whining about whining)
Dude, the point of these fora is to discuss the game. Sometimes, in a discussion, people complain. If you don't like to read about it, you can easily skip those posts.
But there isn't much reason to insult people over it, it just makes you look like a tool.
(now munch down on your feed there matey)

**Polonius**

Come come, don't feed the troll.

**dienekes96**

Posted By Toreador on 04/30/2007 4:18 PM
From what I gather so far, and that is if the Ork army box makes a release at Christmas time.

Dark Angels - out
Blood Angels (in a WD, but rules none the less) - summer
Chaos - (August- Septemberish)
Orks - Xmas

We know pretty much for sure that BA and Chaos will be out this year. Orks is on the cusp.

T,

For my money, a release has new art, new models, and new rules. A Codex, not an article. If all I cared about were rules, I'd make them up myself. I want new models.

Chaos will be Oct/Nov (Hellfury, it's basically confirmed at warseer...cover art on the GD UK ad). But no Orks this year, and BA don't count. They will be a 2008 release.

That's TWO Codicies in a YEAR. At that rate, 2008 will be Orks and BA, 2009 will see Apocalypse And SM Redux (which I'll give you for free), and that still leaves DE, Necrons, Space Wolves (the one I care about the most frankly), IG (a big one), and the Inquisition. That takes us to 2012, 8 years after 4th edition.

They need 3 a year to make sense. 4 would be better, but I know resources are tight, so three should be reasonable. 2 is not. DA in March, and Chaos in November is a 7 month wait. Maybe Orks will be right after Chaos, but don't bet on it. Chaos is ALWAYS a big release (except for the awful 3rd edition version from 1999), so expect at least 5 months until Orks (or Apocalypse, or SM Redone). And they need to fit some WHFB in there.

So it's TWO releases in 2007. If you want to count the BA, that's your choice. I require models to count a release. Rereleasing a $20 Mephiston doesn't count.

Re: the class action lawsuit...I don't think that you know what that means. I have issues with GW myself, but that's being absurd.

**Zubbiefish**

What if it's a new Mephiston does it count then?

**Da Boss**

Posted By Polonius on 04/30/2007 6:11 PM
Come come, don't feed the troll.

But he looked so hungry....

**Da Boss**

I could put up with 2 releases a year, if they didn't make a balls of them, change direction halfway through an edition and then decide to redo them.
And if a second chaos codex introduces another 3+ save army, I may spit hot bile for three days.

**Toreador**

I am counting BA, because what I am counting it for is balancing codexes overall, which is what I am worried about more than models. You can always make do with models, you can't make do without rules. I am looking at a balanced playable game here. You can make the coolest models ever, but if the rules are either too low powered or too high, they won't get much play. You need opponents who want to play to put those new models out against.

**Hellfury**

Posted By dienekes96 on 04/30/2007 6:17 PM

(Hellfury, it's basically confirmed at warseer...cover art on the GD UK ad). But no Orks this year, and BA don't count. They will be a 2008 release.

Oh I agree with you Chuck. Brimstone is normally spot on, but even he is having troubles with rumours being accurate due to either misinformation (intentional or otherwise) or just uninformed. This can be surmissed due to his revision of the releases this year...twice.

Not saying it isnt going to happen, but really, GW is making me wonder if they even know what they are doing....

I am treating all rumours for what they are. Rumours.

With so many conflicting reports, we dont have the luxury of "Confirmed rumours" as we enjoyed years and years ago.

By the way, its good to see you posting around dakka more. its nice to see a few older faces around here lately.

As much as people complain here, dakka is what you make of it.

**Asmodai**

Posted By Toreador on 04/30/2007 6:34 PM
I am counting BA, because what I am counting it for is balancing codexes overall, which is what I am worried about more than models. You can always make do with models, you can't make do without rules. I am looking at a balanced playable game here. You can make the coolest models ever, but if the rules are either too low powered or too high, they won't get much play. You need opponents who want to play to put those new models out against.

I've bought lots of singles from armies I don't play just to paint. I've also bought cool looking Reaper, Confrontation and Warmachine models I know I'll never play a game with.

If you don't care about models, you might as well play one of the Avalon Hill war games with the cardboard chits (they tend to have great rules and tons of balance). Or Panzer General for that matter.

When I play a miniatures game, the miniatures (cool looking, painted armies) are paramount.