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It must be nice to bring the army that will have a good chance at winning unless they face a LR army, but if you do your dead. Its actually much more likley that the anti-LR army some people seem to belive are out there in tons is knocked out of the tournament in r1 when they DS all their meltas into Orks or any other of the numerous hordes that are out there. While at the same time the LR based armies are in pretty good shape against almost anyone that isnt built to handle just them.(and even then they are not as dead in the water as the orks are when facing LR spam). To top this off Marines can build many other variants that will be highly effective, some with LRs and some without.

You will probably not see to many since it will be too new still, but it will come.

=I= Edit: Rules Violation_Baiting -grey_death =I=

To end it all, Steleks arguement in this case seems pretty right.

Wow, somebody call GW and tell them their game is broken!! Stelek figured it out!!! Thankyou Stelek for your grand enlightenment.

So fellows, if you're not playing at least 5 landraiders in the 'Ard Boyz just save your gas and stay home. If you're playing orks... well I'm sorry. You'll just have to find a new game.

By the way, Stelek, I'm not angry nor was I "raging". I was simply pointing out that the way you communicate on these boards makes you look like a complete @ss. Which I'm pretty sure you are at this point. And by the way, the only one "nerd raging" in this thread is you, Mr. 6500 posts in one year.

For the record, I think my Necrons could take your LR spam. Not that I would play you.

Gentlemen, Stelek won't be able to reply for a bit. Please continue to talk amongst yourselves.

jfrazell wrote:Gentlemen, Stelek won't be able to reply for a bit. Please continue to talk amongst yourselves.

Wow...that's fairly ominous sounding. Not entirely surprising...despite the rough edges, Stelek does present some unique (and effective advice).

I haven't seen much talk regarding Mech Eldar. The LR spam is a good bet, new SM is a good bet for the sheer fact that someone could discover that awesome setup that no one is prepared for, Orks perhaps just because of sheer number of entries, although many people are building towards beating Orks now, almost to the point that people focused on MEQs in the previous edition.

But Mech Eldar have always been a powerful and difficult nut to crack, and there really aren't easy builds to defeat them with. Seems as good a chance as any to win.

The Orks are going to have fits trying to deal with LR spam that's for sure. Unfortunately, I have a really tough time with a well played Ork horde army. At 2500 points there are just too many wounds on the table to bring them down. If I had to decide between facing LR spam or 200 orks, I'd choose the land raiders. At least LR can't sweeping advance- where necrons really suffer.

I've been eyeing some Daemon lists lately in the local tournament scene that have been doing very well. I beleive Daemons might be more of a contender than people currently think.

I can't make up my mind as to which army to play in the second round. I won the first round with my Ork bikers but I am considering CSM's in the second round.

I regards to Stelek... his argument style is to make the other poster look like he doesn't know what he is talking about... not to attack the argument itself Its a variation on the "I'm louder so I am right" style. BUT he does have very good insight and a different take on things.

In regards to the Ard Boyz?
I said it before and I will say it again... These are the Players who will win (provided they are on top of their game) and the armies they will win with:
John Blake or Adam Millman (BA dante + corbs combo)
Brad Nickles (CSM Lustwing variant)

How does the CSM list win vs the top 2 armies discussed here?

Vs 7 LRs. 24 termis drop in next to an icon, don't scatter then hit the LRs with combi meltas or Power fists. The Winged Princes can assault them and kill them. The 9 oblitorators pound them with lascannons. Not to mento the Meltaguns in the troop choices. Every unit in the army has the possibility to take down a LR.

Vs Horde Orks. Lash the orks back and pound them with plasma cannons from the Oblits. DS the Termis in on the Lootas and kill them with one round of shooting. case closed.

BA vs the 7 LR list. Each unit again has a chance to take down the LRs. either by rending or with a PF or a melta somewhere in the unit. Not to mention the 9 Multi Melta attack bikes and the Lascannon tanks. Yes I know they die to a single LC shot but we will assume you know what you're doing and will use either rhinos or terrain to not get shot 1st turn or the turbo boost to get 3+ cover saves turn 1 while you move into position to kill 1 LR per turn with each unit.

BA vs the Horde.... if the horde moves up turn one its game over for the orks. Turn 2 the BA assault with units that will kill 30 orks in one round of combat easily and can take a charge from 30 orks mathematically. Dante + corbs makes the Death company killer and the assault squads with dante even better.

These guys I have mentioned will win this year and they will win with the lists I have mentioned Not being cocky I am just talking smack since these are the guys I play/test with all the time.

Strong statement frgsinwntr. Is this just bravado on your part or are you willing to make a wager? Are you so sure that one of your 3 friends will win?

if you are going to the Baltimore GT... Where they will win. I may make a a friendly wager A beer or something like that.

Yeah, I imagine you coast dwellers are due to place, if not win this year. After all, if the landlocked states keep beating everyone, you poor players will probably have to start playing Warmachine or AT-43.

If it matters, it seems Orks won the Chicago GT.

Amazing, somehow none of the multiple LR lists came out on top.

You guys can quit primping stelek now.

Yea, kinda funny how there's all this talk about how Horde orks cannot fight multiple LR's, LR's are becomming increasingly commonplace, and yet a Horde Ork player dominates the Chicago GT by scoring top battle points out of EVERYONE there.

Apparently Orks dont have as much trouble with them as everyone thought. Either that or its clear that Orks, obviously ARE a top teir army that dont have to worry about LR spam....which isnt.

Deadshane1 wrote:Yea, kinda funny how there's all this talk about how Horde orks cannot fight multiple LR's, LR's are becomming increasingly commonplace, and yet a Horde Ork player dominates the Chicago GT by scoring top battle points out of EVERYONE there.

Apparently Orks dont have as much trouble with them as everyone thought. Either that or its clear that Orks, obviously ARE a top teir army that dont have to worry about LR spam....which isnt.

QFT

Well, how many Land Raider spam armies were at the GT?

no idea... I am surprised by the types of armies that are represented... lots of orks, lots of chaos no sisters... no DH

There may not have been any 7LR lists, but you KNOW people are bringing them en masse.

They're the new Falcon.

Don't forget that horde orks also won 100 battle points at the LVGT, and beat the jetbike council the night before.

Deadshane1 wrote:There may not have been any 7LR lists, but you KNOW people are bringing them en masse.

They're the new Falcon.

For twice the points, half the utility, and the same survivability. I wouldn't really put them on the same tier as the fourth ed falcon. That vehicle made the eldar army. The new land raider is just somewhat overwhelming en masse.

The scar bike list can toast the LR spam... it just packs too much heat that can rip those adamantium hulls.

G

i still say salamanders. flamers en masse for the orcs and just enough melta's for the land raiders and everything else.

lets see what the new marine dex brings.

and still like i said before, until we see the missions who can really say for sure?

Dear Beerfart, I see a crusader army or two in the top ten, don't know if they were Landraider.

Dear Deadshane, if anything is broken its Orks, I've been saying it, no one cares, it is filtering down to the local hobby stores as well where every player seems to have, well, Orks. The 40k wreckingcrew.com, devoted to total tournament domination (is that greek for ruining other people's fun) has chosen Orks as their top codex. This tells me which codex is broken.


To the White Scars player-yes, multimelta and melta spam beats Landraider spam. Now what are you going to do against Orks on turn one when he lays an average of 90, but maybe 145 strength 7 shots into your bikers, some 30-45 saves? And that may not even represent the optimal Ork build, but its good for starts I would say. Then you'll wish you had the landraiders.

To the player who said that Blood Angels will win, DITTO above argument, what blood angels build can survive losing two to four units before reaching the enemy?

Do Orks scale up? I don't know, I don't play at that point level. But, theoretically I can see that Orks already have their best firing line at 625 points. They can't scale that up. Rocket Launchers scale up, there's a rumor that you can throw numbers at a problem. Landraiders waddling around with no weapons aren't pretty. Power Claw warbikers might work better than Stelek alluded also.

I've noticed, in my amatuer experience, that Orks are virtually fearless, kill one ork, reroll for morale. Makes them very tough. but, kill points are funny. Kill a truck, get a kill point. I don't think I'd like to put 5, 6 or 7 Ork Truks on a battlefield at 2500 points. Its too many potentially free kill points if the enemy is playing just 7 Landraiders. So maybe truks don't scale up well either.

Not that I won't be pleased if Orks win Aardboyz as well. Goes to prove my thesis about the Ork Codex ruining the game.

I don't think Orks like Necron Monoliths much either, but how do you hide the Necron Warriors.....

ShumaGorath wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:There may not have been any 7LR lists, but you KNOW people are bringing them en masse.

They're the new Falcon.

For twice the points, half the utility, and the same survivability. I wouldn't really put them on the same tier as the fourth ed falcon. That vehicle made the eldar army. The new land raider is just somewhat overwhelming en masse.

How is a LR twice the points of a falcon? Superfalcons generally costed upwards of 220+ pts.

They may not be on the same teir as a 4e falcon, but no other tank in 5e can claim so close of resiliancy.

mikeguth wrote:

Dear Deadshane, if anything is broken its Orks, I've been saying it, no one cares, it is filtering down to the local hobby stores as well where every player seems to have, well, Orks. The 40k wreckingcrew.com, devoted to total tournament domination (is that greek for ruining other people's fun) has chosen Orks as their top codex. This tells me which codex is broken.

You're complaints are almost identical to Starcannon complaints of the last Eldar Dex, Wraithlord complaints, Old Iron Warrior Complaints, Blood Angel complaints from back in the day, Dark Lance spam, ect, ect, ad nauseum....

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

To the White Scars player-yes, multimelta and melta spam beats Landraider spam. Now what are you going to do against Orks on turn one when he lays an average of 90, but maybe 145 strength 7 shots into your bikers, some 30-45 saves?

outflank and charge into a side? With troops that need to be wounded on 6's from the lootas in HtH?

...there are many ways to handle it.

I've noticed, in my amatuer experience, that Orks are virtually fearless, kill one ork, reroll for morale. Makes them very tough. but, kill points are funny. Kill a truck, get a kill point. I don't think I'd like to put 5, 6 or 7 Ork Truks on a battlefield at 2500 points. Its too many potentially free kill points if the enemy is playing just 7 Landraiders. So maybe truks don't scale up well either.

In your amateur experience, do you think maybe you have more to learn? Simply whining about the ork dex is a SURE FIRE way to lose against them. If you resign to defeat...thats it. I've seen lots of close games against this list, if you want to know how to beat orks...the winning list in particular, why dont you ask Bill Kim (centurian99)....he did so at Adepticon...and with Nids...NIDS! against all those Lootas, and no it wasnt a Big Bug list with 2+ armour everywhere either.

Not that I won't be pleased if Orks win Aardboyz as well. Goes to prove my thesis about the Ork Codex ruining the game.

They arent ruining the game, maybe they've ruined YOUR game, but people are still able to beat them. Orks are simply taking advantage of the fact that people are having trouble getting over the fact that all you had to do in the past to do well at a tournement was configure your game against MEQ and you would do awesome. Now you HAVE to be prepared for hordes as well....its throwing some people off, you sound to be one of them.

There's one difference between my whining and previous whining-the records from the Grand Tournaments. Evidence, cold hard fact.

A mere two tournament wins isn't "cold hard fact", it's anecdotal. I won the last two local tournaments, does that mean Necrons are over powered and broken? Actually, if you ask the local players, most say they are.

If it matters, it seems Orks won the Chicago GT.

It doesn't matter, since Ard Boys and GT are played at different pt levels.

In larger games such as Ard Boys there are implicit thresholds that have severe impacts on the outcome of the game.
An Ork army is not much more effective at 2500 pts than on 2000 pts.
This is certainly not true for a Marine like army.

mikeguth wrote:There's one difference between my whining and previous whining-the records from the Grand Tournaments. Evidence, cold hard fact.

Here's another cold hard fact.

Even if we assume that orks ARE broken and mega-easy to win with, people will STILL be bringing them to tournements in the most broken lists they can possibly come up with in order to win, and theres only two things people can do about it...

1) Nothing

2)...and like it.

Its sink or swim, get over your fear of orks and adapt, or resign to losing.

Orks arent that hard to beat. you just got to out think them hahah. The LR spam can be beating by Drop IG and other things not easy it's a tough list but not unbeatable.

Just my 2 cents

I'm gonna be like frgsinwntr and support my friends.

I have to agree with him that his friends have some good lists. Chaos is pretty good in the hands of a good player.

Friend with Dark Eldar won at my local store TOGIT and Avariel here qualified with her Armored Company with DH + WH allies. Just have to root for a girl to win Ard Boyz maybe they would have to change the name of the tournament then

Dark Eldar has the Dark Lances to kill land raiders and disentegrators to kill Orks.

AC has Anti tank rounds for land raider busting and battle cannons and demolishers to pwn orks.

I still like Mech Eldar though. Fire Prisms for templates for killing Orks and Bright Lance Wave Serpents for killing Land Raiders and Jetbike Seer Council is good against both land raiders and Orks.