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I think I can solve this issue simply by ripping off the Drop Pod doors of every fething Drop Pod I see. FOR CHAOS!

On a sidenote, the Chaos Dread Claw (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/dreadclaw.htm) has no finicky doors - no question about the hull there! Proof that Chaos is better and cares about you (sorta).

Gwar! wrote:No he hasnt been nominated by GW HQ as far as I know. I was under the impression that he just kinda does it.

And even if he was, Not a Rule Dev = Not Official (Sorry John )

The email is listed in the Contact Us section of the GW site, and it explicitly states that rules/gaming questions be addressed to it.

KaloranSLC wrote:

Gwar! wrote:No he hasnt been nominated by GW HQ as far as I know. I was under the impression that he just kinda does it.

And even if he was, Not a Rule Dev = Not Official (Sorry John )

The email is listed in the Contact Us section of the GW site, and it explicitly states that rules/gaming questions be addressed to it.

Yes because the webmaster = GW Directors....

Gwar! wrote:Yes because the webmaster = GW Directors....

I get what you're saying, but there's a whole realm of obligation that I don't think you're taking into account. It is what it is, though, and I'm not actually here to argue. So... hurray!

Panic wrote:So again are the petals part of the model?

For measurement purposes, no, they are not... unless you count them as a part of the hull.

Determining the pod's position on the board is measurement. Determining whether the pod is within 1" of an enemy model is also measurement.

I feel sorry for those with the Forgeworld Drop Pods. Even with the doors open they block LOS.

I'm just going to build mine without doors. Problem solved.

Why are people leaving the drop pod doors open anyway?

All the fluff has always said "on landing the bolts pop, doors open and marines leave" when have they ever said "then they close again?"

f74 wrote:Why are people leaving the drop pod doors open anyway?

All the fluff has always said "on landing the bolts pop, doors open and marines leave" when have they ever said "then they close again?"

Where does it say they dont!

P.S. Just to move off topic in an already mad thread, does my Vassal banner look ok on the left or should i centre it?

Looks ok on the left.

So I am sure we can all agree that this is a "discuss before the game issue."

I just want to point out that once you have agreed, enforce it rigidly. If he wants to play the doors as hull, make sure he doesn't move his models on or over them, make sure that if even a tiny bit of a door lands outside the board or in dangerous terrain, you roll for mishap/dangerous terrain respectively.

Remember kids, the only way to fight Asshattery is with even more Asshattery!

It's definitely a good idea. Two ideas, actually.

If/when I get around to digging my marines out again, which will likely involve heavy drop podding, I'll probably just glue mine closed for easier assembly, painting, and playing. The guy I've seen using them, the open doors are just a pain.

Aduro wrote:If/when I get around to digging my marines out again, which will likely involve heavy drop podding, I'll probably just glue mine closed for easier assembly, painting, and playing. The guy I've seen using them, the open doors are just a pain.

Aww that's no fun. Plus you will run into someone calling you a cheating asshat for doing so. You're better off using tiny magnets to keep them shut. That way gives you more options.

insaniak wrote:For measurement purposes, no, they are not... unless you count them as a part of the hull.

Determining the pod's position on the board is measurement. Determining whether the pod is within 1" of an enemy model is also measurement.

yeah,
so your saying petals can overlap models and impassable terrain because you don't need to measure to from them?
As long as the hull is more than 1" away...

I don't think so! When you DS your model has to fit where it's going. No two models can occupy the same space.

Can someone decide to open two doors and leave the other three doors shut so he can get closer to terrain?

Panic...

Panic wrote:

insaniak wrote:For measurement purposes, no, they are not... unless you count them as a part of the hull.

Determining the pod's position on the board is measurement. Determining whether the pod is within 1" of an enemy model is also measurement.

yeah,
so your saying petals can overlap models and impassable terrain because you don't need to measure to from them?
As long as the hull is more than 1" away...

I don't think so! When you DS your model has to fit where it's going. No two models can occupy the same space.

Panic...

Right, no two models can occupy the same space. However, occupying the same space is not the same as one model standing on top of another, and that's a really important distinction.
If you look at page 13 under the 4th bullet point in the section "Classifying Terrain" you'll notice that models are normally considered impassible terrain. Since the classification of ALL terrain is subject to player agreement, treating the drop pod petals as clear terrain instead of impassible because that would simply be consistent with not treating the petals as part of the hull.

You'll also note that on page 11, the passage prohibiting moving through another model defines the space occupied by a model as "represented by its base or by its hull". If the petals aren't part of the hull, then the petals aren't part of the space officially occupied by the model, so it's perfectly fine to move through or over that space. It'd be the same as if you had some some strange fiddly bit of a conversion hanging out over the side of a tank--if it's not part of the hull, it doesn't get in the way.

I've argued for treating the petals as part of the hull earlier, but that was before actually playing with drop pods in a game, and it's just simpler to agree to treat the petals as not part of the hull and as clear terrain. And it just looks so much nicer if you can have models standing on those nice ramps, too.

It'd probably even be fun to play a few friendly games with tanks as difficult and dangerous terrain for something like Tyranids or Daemons versus IG. It'd just be fun to see a guant swarm just bury a few tanks with their bodies, right?

[quote=PanicI don't think so! When you DS your model has to fit where it's going. No two models can occupy the same space.

yeah,
I didn't realise we were discussing house rules?

When the Drop pods were released I had thought that the Space marine player could choose to open the pod or leave it closed.
also I figured he could change this state during his turn...same as with a landraider... During a game Most players move their Doors and lascannons turrets while playing, so why not the doors of a drop pod?

There is not RAW that says he can or can't. But It would enable him to control LOS through the drop pod... so it's proabibly not RAI.
So I'd say he shouldn't.

Fluff indicates doors open on landing (I know Gwar loves his fluff) and every GW photo with a drop pod landed during a game has shown them with all doors open flat on the ground.

But due to the nature of the drop pod rules (or lack of) Each group will play differently...
Having read this thread again this is my current thinking, So to a extent, my house rules!?

Shooting and assaulting is measured to the hull.
I don't think the petals are hull... because they are doors.
Drop Pod Hull must be more than 1" from all other models when DS.
Also When deployed all the petals must be opened.
Petals can't be opened onto/overlaping another model that's already on the table. ie Drop pod must find a place to be fully deployed without bumping into other models.
after which Friendly and enemy models can 'walk' on the petals, I think this is RAI, since I can't find any rules about putting models ontop of models. I agree with solkan it looks cool, it's how I've seen it done in WD and it makes sense.
scattered templates that hit the petals score a hit on the drop pod.

Panic...

Panic wrote:yeah,

I don't think the petals are hull... because they are doors.
Drop Pod Hull must be more than 1" from all other models when DS.
Also When deployed all the petals must be opened.
Petals can't be opened onto/overlaping another model that's already on the table. ...
scattered templates that hit the petals score a hit on the drop pod.

Panic...

House rules are house rules, so I can't tell you you can't play that way, but... the above is a contradiction.

::edit:: bold for clarity

yeah,
I see what your saying...

But the petals cover a huge area and with so much of the drop pod actually (30%? 40%?) made up of petals, I think it's a bit different from clipping the end of a lascannon off to the side of a tank with a template? Prior to opening the petals pretty much are the drop pod! but now that they are open they don't count?
If I hit a landraider ramp with a template I'd count that as a Hit?

I don't think the Pod should be placed somewhere the petals can't be opened. The physical size of the model should be a limiting factor as to where it's placed.
If the doors can't open because it'll hit a model in the face... put it somewhere else.

PAnic...

Panic wrote:yeah,
I see what your saying...

But the petals cover a huge area and with so much of the drop pod actually (30%? 40%?) made up of petals, I think it's a bit different from clipping the end of a lascannon off to the side of a tank with a template? Prior to opening the petals pretty much are the drop pod! but now that they are open they don't count?
If I hit a landraider ramp with a template I'd count that as a Hit?

I don't think the Pod should be placed somewhere the petals can't be opened. The physical size of the model should be a limiting factor as to where it's placed.
If the doors can't open because it'll hit a model in the face... put it somewhere else.

PAnic...

So what if my pod doors were missing? Or I had them glued shut? What would you do then?

The solution is; don't play with asshats.

If your only venue of games are tournaments populated with asshats, you have my pity. Both for being unable to find a game outside of forcing them to play you, and for running into asshats.

(generic "you")

yeah,
Gwar gluing them shut sounds like gaming for an advantage. Blocking TLOS and small footprint.

While a pod pod with no doors, is really quite weird? and sounds like you want the advantages of a small footrpint without the TLOS blocking??? I'd have to guess again that your really gaming for an advantage...

Panic...

yes Panic, so what?

Please show me where it says I may not do this?

Oh Look It doesn't!

As per page 56 of the little Rulebook, "[F]or distances involving a vehicle, measure to or from their hull". Is a petal part of the hull? No, a petal is decorative. It's like the doors on the Rhino.

Gwar! wrote:yes Panic, so what?

Please show me where it says I may not do this?

Oh Look It doesn't!

I play all drop pods. 7 of them in 1750, 4 are those over priced dread ones from forgeworld. Every pod opens...yea even the forgeworld ones with there terrible castings and weak hinges. Ive played a number of tournys and loads of friendly games with them. The doors mean nothing.

Ive played against guys with some glued shut or old style pvc pods. We agree before game that even though nothing opens pods simply give a 4 plus cover. They dont block. IMHO thats a gift to my opponent if hes using closed pods for his dreads...since 50 % of the time my FW dread pods dont even cover 50 % of my dreads giving cover.

If an opponent was such an ass hat as to argue his pods gave full LOS block i wouldnt allow his storm bolter to shoot out of it. I would also drop 7 closed pods on him as well and see what he thought of that.

My suggestion for anyone fielding pods is to model your pods with opening doors, if not simply claim they are open and offer a 4+ cover save. And for the love of god..ignore the doors.

So let me get this straight. If I glue the pod doors shut so I don't have to paint (or build) the interior - this makes me an asshat?

I think it is simple as this:

If the pod has a weapon, where is the range being measured from?

That is the hull.

If you opponent measures from the end of a door, well, he's TFG and all that accompanies that label.

Since I do official demonstrating (not for 40K, but the idea of sense applies across the board), I would say the doors are completely decorative, and do not interfere with movement.

If someone wants to say the doors are there, then force said player to declare where the fire points are, and any model standing on a door is considered mounted in the vehicle.

keezus wrote:So let me get this straight. If I glue the pod doors shut so I don't have to paint (or build) the interior - this makes me an asshat?

nope it doesnt... however trying to claim your pods block LOS does. Especially in 5th edition where TLOS and cover is so very important.

Panic wrote:yeah,
Gwar gluing them shut sounds like gaming for an advantage. Blocking TLOS and small footprint.

While a pod pod with no doors, is really quite weird? and sounds like you want the advantages of a small footrpint without the TLOS blocking??? I'd have to guess again that your really gaming for an advantage...

Panic...

You can't see through a normal drop pod anyway, so you won't be "cheating" That is a total myth that you can shoot through a drop pod. You can never seen enough of an enemy model to do so, unless the drop pod is a dreadnought drop pod.

If you are argueing about the footprint, well, there are no rules that say you have to open all the doors. ( actually there are no rules that say you have to open any doors, its part of the fluff). In any event, doors are doors, and the rules only specify the hull.

General Hobbs wrote:
You can't see through a normal drop pod anyway, so you won't be "cheating" That is a total myth that you can shoot through a drop pod. You can never seen enough of an enemy model to do so, unless the drop pod is a dreadnought drop pod.

You're saying that is impossible to see even the tiniest sliver of a Dreadnought that is standing behind a drop pod? You're saying that one will never see the top of a Space Marines head if they are behind the drop pod? I'm looking at a picture of an open drop pod right now, and I would have no problem seeing something on the other side.