Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

No idea, but im trying to say i like the weapon team on 1 base.

and i agree with you. i magnetized the "loader" for easy removal. now it's not needed since they're a 2 wound model, i suppose.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

warboss wrote:they can get the heavy weapons but only if they base them illegally... grumble, stupid HW stat and basing change, grumble...

FWIW, I'm giving GW the finger on this one.

I didn't rebase my Termies, and I'm not rebasing my IG Heavies to satisfy some pointless change.

Fortunately, I play casual games, so this isn't an issue. We're smart enough to deal with keeping Loader & Gunner as separate models on 25mm bases.

i'll be doing the same since i don't play tournies. i made my new cadians match my other heavy weapons teams and ignored the big bases 5 years ago. it's less of an issue for me now since i took all the heavies out of regular squads and incorporated them into heavy weapon squads only. the new mobility in my previously static gunline is quite exhilarating!

That stinks, the old catachan battleforce had two sentinals and trees.

I would just buy one now and then get a command squad later if I still needed any IG infantry....which I don't!

This is well disappointing with the new IG stuff etc. up to now i was happy but the size and cost of the new BF this equals EPIC FAIL

warboss wrote:i'll be doing the same since i don't play tournies. i made my new cadians match my other heavy weapons teams and ignored the big bases 5 years ago. it's less of an issue for me now since i took all the heavies out of regular squads and incorporated them into heavy weapon squads only. the new mobility in my previously static gunline is quite exhilarating!

So.. what do you do with your guard squads? Run around shooting lasguns at people?

skullspliter888 wrote:This is well disappointing with the new IG stuff etc. up to now i was happy but the size and cost of the new BF this equals EPIC FAIL

And the new Battleforce can also be made into a single troops choice.

What do you expect them to do for Guard?
Give you a Leman Russ squadron in addition to the start of an Infantry Platoon?

They're not going to have a separate price pointed battleforce set just for Guard players.

Personally? I like this battleforce. It gives me a troop choice, one of the nice new Sentinels(of which I plan on having several squads of, if not an Emperor's Talon Recon Company for Apocalypse), and a command squad which has bits I can break down for Hardened Veteran Squads later on.
It's win/win for me.

Its win win for me too. Nice options and upgrades for people that uses sentinels .

Get three of these and a 20 man box and you have a full company of Guard.

Kanluwen wrote:What do you expect them to do for Guard?

1 Command Squad (5)
2 Infantry Squads (10)
1 Special Weapons Squad (6)
1 Heavy Weapons Squad (6)
1 Chimera Transport

*THAT* is what I'd have wanted for the IG Battleforce.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What do you expect them to do for Guard?

1 Command Squad (5)
2 Infantry Squads (10)
1 Special Weapons Squad (6)
1 Heavy Weapons Squad (6)
1 Chimera Transport

*THAT* is what I'd have wanted for the IG Battleforce.

Frankly, the fact that at least the cadians didn't get a recut sprue to go along with the price increase was a bit of a suprise. I can almost see not including the heavy weapon, but to not have meltas and plasmas on the sprue make the IG one of the only armies that still have metal specials and plastic basic troops (along with DE warriors).

I think simply having such a low pt count along with an essentially incomplete troops choice (not enough plasma/melta) makes the box technically a good deal (if you like sentinels) but not something that really would make somebody buy into IG. Replacing the sentinel straight up with a Chimera would help, of course, or even for two more heavy weapon sprues (so you can have two line squads with heavies and a heavy weapon squad) wouldn't be bad.

looks at astropath....

*sith lord powers activate*

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What do you expect them to do for Guard?

1 Command Squad (5)
2 Infantry Squads (10)
1 Special Weapons Squad (6)
1 Heavy Weapons Squad (6)
1 Chimera Transport

*THAT* is what I'd have wanted for the IG Battleforce.

And I bet you would've wanted to pay the same Battleforce price as well? Eventhough you've added at least an extra US$20 worth of models against the new Battleforce that gives you 26% off retail? (Or 21% if you want to adjust it to factor in the old troops price, which so many people seem justified in doing) Unrealistic. That's what your expectations are.

Unrealistic, only in the sense that GW grossly overprices IG infantry.

My reference point is the SM Battleforce, and the IG set should be at least competitive on a value standpoint, given the relative points values:
1 Scouts (5) -> 1 Command (5)
1 Tacticals (10) -> 2x Inf (2x 10)
1 Combat (5) -> 1 SWS (6)
1 Assault (5) -> 1 HWS (6)
1 Rhino -> 1 Chimera

So if the SM Battleforce is an economically viable proposition then so is my proposed IG Battleforce.

It just means GW doesn't get to rape the customer's wallet in the process.

Deff Dread red Edition wrote:One thing thats also bothering me,is that a lascannon on the Catachan sentinel,I thought that that Catachans were not allowed to take lascannons?

There are two kinds of Sentinels in the 'Dex, both Fast Attack with the same options. Only one has 10/10/10 open-topped and "move through cover" while the other is 12/10/10 and closed. Sadly no more Dreadnought CC weapons on any of them

Ozymandias wrote:HMBC, what happened to your Avatar!!!

[vader]Noooooooo![/vader]

Yeah, I miss that grumpy face too. Bring back Commissar Oldfart!

Ozy ain't talkin' 'bout me Anung.

And my new Avatar is coming, once Commissar Calgar has returned from his fishing trip.

ph34r wrote:

warboss wrote:i'll be doing the same since i don't play tournies. i made my new cadians match my other heavy weapons teams and ignored the big bases 5 years ago. it's less of an issue for me now since i took all the heavies out of regular squads and incorporated them into heavy weapon squads only. the new mobility in my previously static gunline is quite exhilarating!

So.. what do you do with your guard squads? Run around shooting lasguns at people?

yup. the roving gun wall comes in handy especially with the FRFSRF order combined with rapid fire at 12" (although i never made it last game since i rolled over 9 on ALL my leadership tests).

Should have bought a vox for a reroll!

JohnHwangDD wrote:Unrealistic, only in the sense that GW grossly overprices IG infantry.

My reference point is the SM Battleforce, and the IG set should be at least competitive on a value standpoint, given the relative points values:
1 Scouts (5) -> 1 Command (5)
1 Tacticals (10) -> 2x Inf (2x 10)
1 Combat (5) -> 1 SWS (6)
1 Assault (5) -> 1 HWS (6)
1 Rhino -> 1 Chimera

So if the SM Battleforce is an economically viable proposition then so is my proposed IG Battleforce.

It just means GW doesn't get to rape the customer's wallet in the process.

The thing is though - for you and many, many others I see posting on fourms around the place - the Battleforces have nothing whatsoever to do with points. They are simply a discount product (in so far as GW have discount products ) that bundle a bunch of plastic kits together for a %-off the retail price. That's it. Little thought goes into what force/unit composition you get in the box (beyond trying to give you a spread of what kits are available to that army) it's just a matter of what $-value kits fit into their $-per-Battleforce structure. And they will always use them to push new kits when re-doing them with new contents otherwise there's no point in re-doing them.

The value of the new IG Battleforces have been compromised somewhat though, in seeming to have factored in a price rise on new Guard items into the price. Not only on the individual box prices but also on the Battleforce retail price as well... bit of a double-whammy. I hate it when factor in a price rise on new products while the rest stay the same, because, like the ~£/$5 bump on the SM Spearhead/Thunderfire and the $8 bump on the Valkyrie, it just engenders illwill.

Yeah, however, the way that I constructed the Battleforce had nothing to do with points, nor prices. Simply how much "stuff" would fit in a SM Battleforce-sized box using IG equivalent sprues.

The fact that GW is actively screwing IG players is a separate issue that doesn't, and shouldn't affect proposed Battleforce contents.

I don't like the new Battleforce box for IG nearly as much because back when I was first collecting the army they were a great buy that helped me build up the collection fast and saving a little on the way. With this new contents I just have no Inclination of buying them except for the Catachan one since I don't have any of those.

I know that you lost a tank from the old one but it is now a legal platoon start and for new people that is what they need get this and three squad boxes and the platoon is full heavy weapons and all.
Some of us don't need more Russes but we do need the infantry. Things change time to live with the change.

This is a very weak battleforce. There is barely a platoon in that box let alone an army or "battleforce." I always realized IG were expensive because of the quantity needed but its ridiculous to be so heavily short changed on this. This force is so basic and lacking that if the space marines had been similarly treated they would have only received a tactical squad as theirs.

I like what's included in the box, you get a nice sized platoon plus a sentinel. Not a bad deal for $95. It's what, $130ish separately? And it's all stuff you'll use too.

I do agree it's not much of a "battleforce" though. They should have just called it a platoon box set or something like that.

JohnHwangDD wrote:HB's can be hand-held like an Orlock ganger or the last chancer "Ox". It doesn't require S4 like a SM Scout or PA like a Sister.

John, by that logic, lascannons can also be hand-held like the Delaque ganger heavy. I don't disagree with it - I'm just saying.

@DBM: *exactly*. That's why I don't get the whole 2E fascination with the split-trail carriages, nor the need for big tripods in the current design.

As I see it, a Lascannon is just an Anti-Tank Rifle that *works*.

It's an anti-tank rifle that works because it is 10 feet long and shoots lasers as big around as your head...

Which is pretty much like any other functional ATR.

I'm curious how many points the new Cadian box is. Could anyone tell me using the 'current' codex?

The content of those battleforces is really lacking. They should have at least included a Chimera or a Russ to make it live up to the title "Battle Force"